Split Decision Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 You'll have to forgive me. I don't have a great name or a background for this character sheet. He's an exercise in building a character who has powers based upon the SFX of Duplication, without using the power or any of the related powers (Summon, Follower, Multiform, and so forth). For the purposes of brevity, I will only post the relevant powers. 18 Multiman Duplication Elemental Control, 45-point powers. Incantations to start (-1/4) 21e Multiman Multireach: 10" Stretching x2NCV, Incantations to start (-1/4) END: 5 16e Multiman Shuffle: Sight, Hearing, Touch Group Images, -5 to PER rolls, 4" Radius (+1/2), Set Effect: create 5 copies, all scatter (character can scurry away too), Incantations to start (-1/4). END: 6 18e Multislide: 15" Teleportation, position shift, no relative velocity. Incantations to start (-1/4) END: 4 19e Multiman Cannon Fodder: 8PD/8ED, 8" Force Wall, opaque to normal sight, nonresistant DEF (-1/2), Incantations to start (-1/4) END: 5 17e Multi-man Pillow: Breakfall, +17 to roll, Useable By Other (+1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4) END: 0 Roll: 30- (assuming DEX 20) 9e Multiman Bucket Brigade: Flight 14" Useable By Other (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), No NCM (-1/4) Not Useable by Self (-1/2), Only up to the limit of the natural movement of the object/person carried, or 6", whichever is less (-1/4), Only along specified path (-3/4), Incantations to start (-1/4) 18e The Big Hold-Up: 5d6, 5DEF Entangle, nonresistant DEF (-1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4). END: 5 8e The Big Help: Change Environment 2" Radius, all simple tasks (+1/2), +20 Long-Lasting (Permanent), Extra Time: 1 minute or more (-1 1/2), Incantations to start (-1/4). END: 4 14e Keep an Eye Out: Clairsentience for Sight, Hearing, Smell/Taste groups, 0 END (+1/2), Visible Perception Point (-1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4). 3 Extra Limbs from Extra Bodies: Extra Limbs, as many as necessary, Nonpersistent (-1/4), Drained as if in EC (-1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4) 2 Got my Back: 360 degree sense for Normal Sight, nonpersistent (-1/4), Visible (-1/4), Drained as if in EC (-1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4). So there's that. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psistrike Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication A very interesting way to design a character's power, without using any of the powers most would expect. Looks rules legal to me and like a fun character to play. Great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braincraft Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Nonresistant on the FW makes it kind of useless. You can't throw bodies in front of knives or bullets? I would go with TK instead of Flight UBO... but then, you already have Stretching + Extra Limbs. So I'm not sure what you're doing there. Those points aside, nice work! I love this sort of high-concept stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split Decision Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Flight UBO: it's to simulate a bridge or assembly-line rather than reach. But it is sort of redundant. Nonresistant FW: Perhaps I misread FW then? I will have to look and rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Don't forget Contact: Self. That way, you can have as many as you want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split Decision Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication As suggested, I removed the Flight UBO power, and also removed Nonresistant DEF from Force Wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braincraft Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 He should buy it as an Organization contact Don't forget Contact: Self. That way' date=' you can have as many as you want![/quote'] Yeah, I contact myself often. Usually at night, or in the shower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication If you keep doing that, you'll be Flashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication If you keep doing that' date=' you'll be Flashed.[/quote'] Did you not have a really cool article in one of the Hero Fanzines on this very subject, Mister Mattingly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMan Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Do you really need all that? Couldn't you do it all with just Extra Limbs, Images, and Stretching (Indirect)? Just buy enough stretching to simulate how far your "doubles" are able to get from you. OH, and make the character an alien tentacle monster... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Brilliant Even!!! Cheers QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split Decision Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Note: The Incantations that this character uses is to shout or speak his name to activate the first "dupe" in whatever the power is. Then, as each dupe spawns the next one, that dupe will also say it's name. It sounds like a continuous echo as long as more dupes are being spawned. Corrected power set: 18 Multiman Duplication Elemental Control, 45-point powers. Incantations to start (-1/4) 21e Multiman Multireach: 10" Stretching x2NCV, Incantations to start (-1/4) END: 5 16e Multiman Shuffle: Sight, Hearing, Touch Group Images, -5 to PER rolls, 4" Radius (+1/2), Set Effect: create 5 copies, all scatter (character can scurry away too), Incantations to start (-1/4). END: 6 18e Multislide: 15" Teleportation, position shift, no relative velocity. Incantations to start (-1/4) END: 4 27e Multiman Cannon Fodder: 8PD/8ED, 8" Force Wall, opaque to normal sight, Incantations to start (-1/4) END: 5 17e Multi-man Pillow: Breakfall, +17 to roll, Useable By Other (+1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4) END: 0 Roll: 30- (assuming DEX 20) 8e The Big Help: Change Environment 2" Radius, all simple tasks (+1/2), +20 Long-Lasting (Permanent), Extra Time: 1 minute or more (-1 1/2), Incantations to start (-1/4). END: 4 14e Keep an Eye Out: Clairsentience for Sight, Hearing, Smell/Taste groups, 0 END (+1/2), Visible Perception Point (-1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4). 3 Extra Limbs from Extra Bodies: Extra Limbs, as many as necessary, Nonpersistent (-1/4), Drained as if in EC (-1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4) 2 I Got my Back: 360 degree sense for Normal Sight, nonpersistent (-1/4), Visible (-1/4), Drained as if in EC (-1/4), Incantations to start (-1/4). I knocked out the Bucket Brigade (superfluous) and corrected the Force Wall power (making it useable against killing attacks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication It´s actually kind of horrifying, if you think about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braincraft Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication You're gonna be hemorrhaging END, though. I'm still not sure AoE TK wouldn't work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Samson Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication It´s actually kind of horrifying' date=' if you think about it...[/quote'] Did someone say horrifying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split Decision Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication I thought about the END part, too. He's SPD 4, END 50, REC 12. He can use his power for a few Turns before collapsing in a heap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication To be honest, I don´t find that very disturbing. Summoning zombies to use as tools? Sure. Creating (or potentially even TAKING from other dimensions which is even worse) duplicates of yourself whose sole purpose is to die for you? I just get this image of dozens of people (granted all genetically the same, but all ultimately unique indibiduals) throwing themselves in front of an onslaught of bullets just to protect the man who called them... all those lifes snuffed out, all that pain and suffering... the bodies piling up one on top of the other.... and he probably doesn´t care because they´re ¨just duplicates.¨ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatscan Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Creating (or potentially even TAKING from other dimensions which is even worse) duplicates of yourself whose sole purpose is to die for you? I just get this image of dozens of people (granted all genetically the same' date=' but all ultimately unique indibiduals) throwing themselves in front of an onslaught of bullets just to protect the man who called them... all those lifes snuffed out, all that pain and suffering... the bodies piling up one on top of the other.... and he probably doesn´t care because they´re ¨just duplicates.¨[/quote'] Heh, just like that movie The Prestige with Hugh Jackman's character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication I think it's a very interesting and clever exercise to do things like this, nicely done. I seem to recall a Speedster without movement powers some time ago done along these same lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Never seen The Prestige... though I think I bought it recently. So SHHHH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split Decision Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Creating (or potentially even TAKING from other dimensions which is even worse) duplicates of yourself whose sole purpose is to die for you? I just get this image of dozens of people (granted all genetically the same' date=' but all ultimately unique indibiduals) throwing themselves in front of an onslaught of bullets just to protect the man who called them... all those lifes snuffed out, all that pain and suffering... the bodies piling up one on top of the other.... and he probably doesn´t care because they´re ¨just duplicates.¨[/quote'] If it indeed done with this mechanic, then that would be horrifying. I imagine each of these are more along the lines of hard holograms, figments of the collective conciousness, or whatever- with as much individuality as a toenail. Otherwise, it would be too horrible to contemplate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Otherwise, it would be too horrible to contemplate. Muhc like the "force field" spell from the old College of Animal Magic. "I love me little animal friends." A random bunny leaps in front of an arrow aimed at the mage. "They're so friendly." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Did you not have a really cool article in one of the Hero Fanzines on this very subject, Mister Mattingly? Did. Haymaker #11. I lost those files long ago. And searching on the wayback machine, I've only been able to dig up part of the online version of the article. There was originally more to this article, but remember that it's all done in 4th Edition, back on '94 or so... DUPLICATION Playing or Running a Dupe Duplication is the costliest power in Hero. Duplication Cost: Base character must pay 2 Character Points for every 5 total points possessed by a second form, minimum cost 20 Character Points. Each additional form costs 1 Character Point for every 5 total points, minimum cost 10 points. No form can have more total points than the total points of the base character minus the costs for Duplication. Duplication costs no END to use. An open question: by "minus the costs for Duplication" do they mean the real or active points? For a 250-point character with 150 active points of duplication that has a -1 limitation on it, is that 250 - 150 = 100 or 250 - 75 = 175? To clarify terminology in this article, I will refer to the base character who creates duplicates as the original, and the characters who are newly created by the duplication power as duplicates. A dupe refers to either a duplicate or to the original, without specifying which. Example: Multoid buys 3 100-point duplicates for 40 + 20 + 20 = 80 points, which gives him a total of 4 dupes. Duplication is a unique power in the Hero System. Living creatures (or even non-living, such as robots or zombies) can be created from nothing. The only power that even comes close to this is summon, but summoned creatures are not friendly to the summoner. As another way to model duplication, imagine a +2 advantage onto summon, such that the summoned creatures are completely friendly and cooperative to the summoner. Unlike duplication, however, a summon would be able to double the number of creatures with +5 points per multiple, and has no upper limit on creatures. Duplication gets no such cost break for large numbers of duplicates, though, but since many duplicator character concepts call for a whole lot of dupes, some workarounds will be presented later. Duplicates can come from various places: another dimension -- alternate selves who normally spend their time in different worlds, but can "cross over" when needed (these other selves can also make a good watched or DNPC, since the original might sometimes be called into a different dimension to help his other selves); another time -- time travelers might be able to travel from tomorrow to today so that they both exist at once (of course, when tomorrow gets here, they'll have to remember to go back in time or else this won't have happened); limbo or some other semi-place -- perhaps a pocket dimension where they're stored until needed; perhaps the duplicates did not exist at all beforehand and are created the instant they're needed. Some duplication special effects call for each dupe to be completely identical, and some special effects will call for each dupe to be slightly or completely different. Each situation has its own advantages and disadvantages. Different dupes will, of course, have different powers, skills, special effects, etc. Identical dupes are great for confusing the location of the original, or even exchanging which dupe really is the original. Example: Multoid in his non-duplicated state is usually Gary. Gary can split into Gary and Larry, then Larry can reabsorb Gary, leaving Multoid as just Larry. Sometimes, even with identical dupes, each dupe will have a distinct name and personality, otherwise the character himself may get confused about which of him is which (everyone else certainly will often enough). Characters with duplication have a chance at many unique role-playing situations and issues: If a dupe is suspected for a crime, each dupe must establish an alibi, which can be impossible if not all of them were even created at the time. If one dupe catches some disease such as a cold, do they all? Can individual dupes have enemies/hunteds, or should the entire character be hunted (with the disad applying only to the base character)? Dupes can be used as hostages against other dupes (imagine being your own DNPC). Do dupes consider themselves more of a team than an individual, with the original acting as coach? Power accidents, radiation accidents, or plot devices involving duplicators could possibly cause the dupes to temporarily lose the ability to split, to recombine, to spread damage, or to share memories. If the original character is in love, will all the dupes feel the same way? Can each duplicate have his or her own girlfriend or boyfriend? Will the dupes occasionally trade places with each other? If the dupes are of different sex, can they fall in love with each other? Can they mate with each other, or would that be taboo? What will happen if some of the dupes have an argument? Even identical twins don't always agree on everything. Even one person can have internal quarrels with himself. Duplication gives the opportunity to takes different sides of an issue at the same time. When dupes do quarrel, can they refuse to be reabsorbed? Can a duplicate run away from "home"? Can a duplicate mutiny, and try to take over as the original? Perhaps a dupe could go renegade and hunt the rest ("We have met the enemy, and he is us.") Is the base character more of a job than a person? Can just any dupe be considered the base character? The "revolving original" could be a justification for multiform (discussed later). How will a character react when a dupe dies? If the original dies, will the GM allow one of the dupes to "assume the mantle" of the original? Perhaps the dupes will continue in the campaign as DNPCs. Can dupes have a "personnel change"? Maybe one of the dupes dies or leaves, and an entirely different one takes his place. In Comics Multiple Man (Jamie Madrox) from Marvel's X-Factor has 40 agent-level human dupes; each duplicate is completely identical to the original; he can normally only double in number per action phase (1 -> 2 -> 4 -> 8 -> 16 -> 32 -> 40); duplication requires gestures or is triggered by impact, so that either someone can hit him or he can hit himself (which can possibly bypass the previous limitation, maybe a large autofire attack would take him from 1 to 40 all at once); as long as he still has dupes "in reserve," he has armor (special effect is that the attack didn't hurt him, it split him in two). "Multiple Man, Multiple Man, doing the things a multiple can. What's he like? It's not important, Multiple Man. Is he a lot or is he alone? A super clown or a super clone? His own beginning and his own end, his own best friend, Multiple Man." Antibody (Dr. Randall O'Brien) from Marvel's New Universe D.P.7 usually has around 4 to 6 duplicates which are normally intangible and can fly but cannot speak; each duplicate appears identical to the others, but not to the original; Randy, at least initially, had limited control over the duplicates -- he had to coax them to come out, and once they were out, he had to convince them to do things; his duplicates are "wearable" -- he can step inside his intangible duplicate to gain its strength and defense and its ability to fly; his duplicates have a dependency on the original, their host body; his duplicates have individual names and personalities (all are just aspects of Randy's personality, though); in times of anxiety, Randy can exhibit several dozen cannon fodder duplicates (described below). Triplicate Girl from DC's Legion of Superheroes could split into three dupes which each had a different personality; she discovered that one of the dupes would sometimes go off on her own and not share her memories when she came back, due to her multiple personality disorder; her two duplicates have since died, leaving only the original. Gemini from Marvel's Defenders (part of a zodiac created by Scorpio, Nick Fury's brother), has one duplicate which is semi-opposite to the original -- one is a creature of reason, the other of emotion; he often splits in two to make decisions, so that Reason can reach the logical conclusion while Emotion can fully explore the emotions involved; when not duplicated, he has a no range energy blast; when duplicated, his blast is increased significantly when both dupes touch the same target. Psi-Hawk (Emmett Proudhawk) from Marvel's New Universe Psi-Force is one duplicate created by five people (the team of five splits the cost of the duplication, just like teams can split the cost of a base or a vehicle); five psionic teens grasp a medallion to create a being which has a combination of all their powers at a much higher level; Psi-Hawk can be created by more or less than five people, but five is optimum; the Psi-Hawk's powers correspond to his creators' powers; the five creators can rotate membership (as one leaves, another can take the place, and Psi-Hawk's powers will change accordingly). Multiplex from DC's Firestorm is fission, as opposed to Firestorm's fusion. Multiplex can create three normal duplicates, or when overloaded with energy, many shrunk duplicates. Combat Uses One of the uses of duplication in combat is to outnumber one's foes. A group of agent-level characters properly designed and run can prove a challenge to a single superheroic-level character. Dupes can fan out and attack from several directions, and can be effective whether they have the same or different attacks. Duplication leads to a few advantageous combat mechanics. Coordinated attacks require that the attackers have trained together extensively. Even the harshest GM should concede that dupes have trained together sufficiently. Many GMs will even allow the multiple attacker bonus for hand-to-hand combatants, which provides a +1 OCV per attacker after the first. Example: Multoid's four identical dupes attack Draco. Each dupe tries to punch Draco, at +3 OCV from multiple attacker bonus. Three of the dupes hit, with 12, 8, and 9 STUN getting through Draco's defenses. Using the coordinated attacks rule, 12 + 8 + 9 = 29 STUN, which is higher than Draco's 25 CON, so Draco is stunned. A duplicate can appear either in the same hex as or in a hex adjacent to the original. Each successive duplicate can then appear in the same hex as or adjacent to any other dupe -- either the original or one of the duplicates. A tactic available to those with several dupes is to surround the target. By spending half a phase to create enough duplicates to circle the target, the second half of the phase will remain free for an attack. Some GMs may allow an additional +1 OCV or so for those surrounding dupes who attack the target from the rear. Duplication also can be used to simulate a high speed. By holding actions, several dupes can alternate action segments so that one of the dupes attacks each segment. Example: Multoid's four dupes are speed 3. When wishing to continually attack a target, Gary acts on 1, 5, and 9; Larry acts on 2, 6, and 10; Harry acts on 3, 7, and 11; and Barry acts on 4, 8, and 12. The Duplication power can also be justification to purchase Cannon Fodder Duplicates (CFDs). CFDs are disposable dupes intended to soak up damage aimed for the real character or to perform other undesirable functions. CFDs can be represented by a continuous force wall, telekinesis, energy blast, or other power. Bodyguard CFDs can be created around a dupe when he realizes that he's amid enemy blasters. The CFDs will then bear the brunt of the attacks. Once enough of the CFDs have been knocked out or killed, the force wall goes down (ablative is an appropriate limitation for this example). CFDs can also be sent out to attack via a continuous area affect energy blast (with the way to stop the blast being to kill the CFDs). Example: Multoid can create up to 100 CFDs (with his multipower of Continuous Force Wall and Continuous Selective Area Effect Telekinesis). Since he's expecting guests in 10 minutes, he uses his telekinesis to clean his entire home, rake the leaves, do the dishes and laundry, walk the dogs, and perform several other mundane tasks while the original Multoid relaxes in the shower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Re: Duplicator without Duplication Did. Haymaker #11. I lost those files long ago. And searching on the wayback machine, I've only been able to dig up part of the online version of the article. There was originally more to this article, but remember that it's all done in 4th Edition, back on '94 or so... God, we're getting old. Especially you. I printed it up and have it in a folder somewhere, I'll try and find it later and see if you missed anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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