Innate Defense vs Power Limitations

[CrosshairCollie]

I know, the title makes no sense. I can't really come up with a way to explain it, so I'll use examples.

 

Mechanon has full Life Support, including the immunity to diseases, poisons, chemical weapons, and bioweapons. This makes perfect sense, since he's a robot and should obviously be immune to such attacks.

 

On the other hand ... shouldn't those kinds of attacks automatically come with a limitation that they only affect living targets? Plague, whose power is disease generation, obviously can't give the bubonic plague to a statue ("All right, Mr. Thinker, turn your head and cough.").

 

Which leads to a weird chicken-and-egg scenario ... should the robot have to buy the immunities to thinks that, logically, should have a limitation that it can't affect them in the first place?

[schir1964]

Re: Innate Defense vs Power Limitations

 

I know, the title makes no sense. I can't really come up with a way to explain it, so I'll use examples.

 

Mechanon has full Life Support, including the immunity to diseases, poisons, chemical weapons, and bio-weapons. This makes perfect sense, since he's a robot and should obviously be immune to such attacks.

 

On the other hand ... shouldn't those kinds of attacks automatically come with a limitation that they only affect living targets? Plague, whose power is disease generation, obviously can't give the bubonic plague to a statue ("All right, Mr. Thinker, turn your head and cough.").

 

Which leads to a weird chicken-and-egg scenario ... should the robot have to buy the immunities to thinks that, logically, should have a limitation that it can't affect them in the first place?

This has been discussed before. But the example given had to do with Priest Attacks (via Holy Symbols/Weapons) vs Supernatural Creatures (Undead/Demons/etc).

 

The question was whether the weapons were required to have a modifier vs Supernatural Creatures or whether supernatural creatures were required to have a disadvantage vs Holy Items.

 

It really depends on how you want things to work in general.

 

I think a good general rule of thumb is to determine if something is mundane or if something is special.

 

Example: If metallic objects are considered mundane and by virtue of being defined as a metallic object automatically means that diseases have no effect, then the diseases have a limitation (only vs living organic things).

 

Example: If a super soldier who is a living organic thing is immune to diseases even though all other mundane living organisms would be infected, then the super soldier is special and requires Immunity To Diseases.

 

Does that help any?

 

Side Note: This is where the hidden "Human Template" reveals itself for PC creation. If Mechanon was built with the PC rules ("Human Template"), then the mechanics should require Immunity vs Diseases (but they don't), however, if Mechanon was built with the Automaton/Computer/Vehicle/Base rules ("Non-Human Templates"), then the mechanics should not require Immunity vs Diseases (but they don't).

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Innate Defense vs Power Limitations

 

I think this is rather straight forward and once again is an issue of SFX. All characters start out from the same place, i.e. whether you're a vampire or a super-soldier you have to buy benefits and take detriments as a Disadvantage.

 

If the super-solider is immune to disease, he has to buy it. So does a robot. If you're a vampire, you take your vulnerabilities as Disads.

 

That way you can say that I'm an android who's not automatically vulnerable to electrical attacks, or a vampire who can cross running water, etc.

 

There's no difference between the super-soldier and the robot. It's just SFX.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Innate Defense vs Power Limitations

 

All limitations as to use should be applied to attacks, and people should REALLY think about their sfx*. Mind you, if you didn't have to pay for being a non-metallic robot, wouldn't everyone be one?

 

*LOOK OUT! SKY PIE!

[Beast]

Re: Innate Defense vs Power Limitations

 

for me it would seem that human 2m tall 100 kg is the default

so you would need to buy powers,talents to move away from that default

there may be some semi organic componets (ala the gel packs in ST:V)that might be affected by diseases

[Split Decision]

Re: Innate Defense vs Power Limitations

 

Mechanon is a character. A toaster is an object. Although they are both made of basically the same stuff, the designation "character" makes all the difference.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Innate Defense vs Power Limitations

 

What do we want?

 

Automaton rules for character!

 

When do we want it?

 

...

[tesuji]

Re: Innate Defense vs Power Limitations

 

I think that the power such as plague touch should get a lim for "wont have an effect against certain types of life support" AND THEN the robot should have to buy appropriate life support in order to fit within the not affected group.

 

Kind of like i might buy

 

+3 DCV 15 ap

-1/4 not effective against anyone with mental defense

12 cp

 

to represent reading someones mind and being able to get out of the way of their attacks because "i see it coming"

 

Now in this case my power gets a lim because certain "purchaseable" traits, ie mental defense, will cause my power to not work right.

 

So standardize the effect and purchasing.

 

have a codified "power reduced by life support of proper type" lim.

 

The lim could perhaps be based on the cp cost of the off switch.

 

this ties into the way NND work as well as things like "rka must do body" to a lesser degree.

 

A thought -

 

Restructure life support a IMMUNITY

Cost immunity based on FREQUENCY of the effect (how many things, how often they occur) and also DEGREE OF RESISTANCE (cut in half, cut by fifth, totally immune) then you could have a cyborg who is only slightly affected by disease or a robot who is totally unaffected etc.

 

then vary the value of the "affected by life support" by how much the life support costs maybe. The more they have to pay for the immunity the lesss the lim is worth.

 

Also there should be some obvious life support packages like "robot" provides as standards that we can then tweak as needed, just an ease of play thing.