Run by shooting

[Manic Typist]

So... is there anything in the rules saying you can´t do a Move By while using a Ranged weapon?

 

For instance, let´s say the Bad Guys pile into a car and drive to escape from Mr. Pistol. Mr. Pistol runs as fast as he can to keep pace with the car (at least until it accelarates faster than he can run), and fires in through the window in an attempt to take out the driver/stop the fiends from getting away.

 

Now, sure.... I could deal with this with a tiny handwave. After all, movement is broken down because it´s necessary to do so. It´s not like the character necessarily stops after 6 hexes, and then starts again...

 

But if I could do it with a Move By, I´d really like that. I think it would work really nicely with the whole move and fire thing (i.e. it´s a consistent application of the system) and reflects the difficulties of moving and firing at the same time.

 

Thoughts?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I don't know. My take is that a Move By with a Ranged attack works just fine. I just ignore the maneuver's effect on damage completely (OCV adjustment still applies). I can't remember either whether the rules forbid it or what, but it seems simple and intuitive enough that I just go with it that way. Maybe I'll crack the cover and the FAQ and check it out tomorrow though. Heh heh.

[Alibear]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I would allow it and might rule that any lessening of damage was due to not being able to aim properly and not hit the desired part of the body. I'd have to lok at damage for the character involved to make a ruling.

 

It would make great dramatic sense for a John Woo Hero type to take a Ranged Martial Art maneuver with movement included.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Run by shooting

 

So... is there anything in the rules saying you can´t do a Move By while using a Ranged weapon?

 

For instance, let´s say the Bad Guys pile into a car and drive to escape from Mr. Pistol. Mr. Pistol runs as fast as he can to keep pace with the car (at least until it accelarates faster than he can run), and fires in through the window in an attempt to take out the driver/stop the fiends from getting away.

 

Now, sure.... I could deal with this with a tiny handwave. After all, movement is broken down because it´s necessary to do so. It´s not like the character necessarily stops after 6 hexes, and then starts again...

 

But if I could do it with a Move By, I´d really like that. I think it would work really nicely with the whole move and fire thing (i.e. it´s a consistent application of the system) and reflects the difficulties of moving and firing at the same time.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'd like to see this added as a 6e maneuver.

 

I am inclined to treat this the same as a Move By except:

 

- no damage bonus for velocity

- no halving of damage from the actual attack

- all penalties for range are doubled (it's even harder to account for range while moving)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I would simply remove the +v/5 from Passing Strike, call it Passing Shot and be done.

 

but that's a Martial Maneuver.

 

If you want a Combat Maneuver; model it off Graby By but repalce "Grab Object" with "Ranged Strike" and call it good.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Run by shooting

 

There used to be a rule that you suffered -1OCV if you moved before attacking. I quite like that rule, but we do not have it any more.

 

I'd be happy enough to see a standard maneuver like this:

 

Moving Attack (need to work on the name): OCV -2 DCV -2 FMove Attack

 

Basically you can do a full move and follow it with an attack (ranged or HtH), but it is harder to hit and you are not well placed to avoid incoming. The penalties are identical to move by penalties. I'd specify that the attack you use must be a 1/2 phase attack action and can not include a 'move' component. It doesn't allow you to make multiple attacks, which move by does, but then it has no effect on your damage either.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Run by shooting

 

You can get multiple attacks out of the Move By Sean suggests by combining it with Rapid Attack. Really, there's no reason Multiple Move By needs to stick around - it's only a variant of Sweep.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I've allowed a "Strafing" attack in past games...its basically:

 

Strafe: Full Phase, FMove, -2 OCV, 1/2 DCV, Ranged Attack

[Sean Waters]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I've allowed a "Strafing" attack in past games...its basically:

 

Strafe: Full Phase, FMove, -2 OCV, 1/2 DCV, Ranged Attack

 

 

I think there is a strong consensus that this is very much in the right ball park. Perhaps someone should suggest this on the 6ed discussion boards.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Run by shooting

 

OK, done. under Combat Issues.

 

Though I suggested a 1/2 Phase so you can do things like open a door and run into a room shooting. The same way that Move By is a 1/2 Phase Action - most of the time you're using Full Move and making a Full Phase Action, but it allows the possibility to do something else as well.

[Alibear]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I'd call it -2ocv, -2dcv but yes that's what I'd go with.

 

I might consider an extra penalty v range to represent not being able to use sights properly but yeah that looks about right.

[JmOz]

Re: Run by shooting

 

You know, their was a wonderfuly written article about this in an issue of Digital Hero...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Run by shooting

 

Good job: I don't think I've ever seen a thread progress so smoothly from problem to consensus solution.

[Alibear]

Re: Run by shooting

 

Pat on the back all round?

[Alibear]

Re: Run by shooting

 

OK, done. under Combat Issues.

 

Though I suggested a 1/2 Phase so you can do things like open a door and run into a room shooting. The same way that Move By is a 1/2 Phase Action - most of the time you're using Full Move and making a Full Phase Action, but it allows the possibility to do something else as well.

 

I'd allow you to open a door with your casual strength and basically just ignore it as an obstacle.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Run by shooting

 

Some people might, some might not. 1/2 Phase Action keeps the options open.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I feel kind of proud that something I raised got taken up and put onto the 6e forums...

 

Any thoughts about DCV and how it´s generally harder to hit a moving target?

 

Hm... could I combine a Move with Suprression Fire?

[Alibear]

Re: Run by shooting

 

Quick and dirty ruling..

 

 

If someone ain't moving they don't get full dcv.

 

If you aren't actively trying to avoid being hit you're at half dcv.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I feel kind of proud that something I raised got taken up and put onto the 6e forums...

 

Any thoughts about DCV and how it´s generally harder to hit a moving target?

 

Hm... could I combine a Move with Suprression Fire?

 

You could use Velocity Based DCV instead of Normal DCV.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I wouldn't give any extra range penalties (beyond the OCV penalty normally imposed by the maneuver). While sights might be harder to use and such, that's going to be pretty dependent on the individual weapon being used (if it is a weapon at all; why should it be any harder to fire your eyebeams or point your finger)? Besides, moving laterally to the target's direction might actually be an aid to depth perception, helping the attacker to gauge distance better. All in all I'd just call it even. However, if the relative motion were enough that I'd normally use velocity-based DCV I'd probably go with that.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I feel kind of proud that something I raised got taken up and put onto the 6e forums...

 

Any thoughts about DCV and how it´s generally harder to hit a moving target?

 

Hm... could I combine a Move with Suprression Fire?

 

A target moving and attacking like this will be balancing offence and defence and, whilst it is harder to hit a moving target, they will not be able to keep ducking for cover in the same way as someone taking a half move and attack. I think a DCV penalty is appropriate. As suggested by g-a you could use velocity DCV, but I suspect that will slow things as you look it up. B'sides, for some superheroes that might well constitute a DCV increase...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Run by shooting

 

I wouldn't give any extra range penalties (beyond the OCV penalty normally imposed by the maneuver). While sights might be harder to use and such' date=' that's going to be pretty dependent on the individual weapon being used (if it is a weapon at all; why should it be any harder to fire your eyebeams or point your finger)? Besides, moving laterally to the target's direction might actually be an aid to depth perception, helping the attacker to gauge distance better. All in all I'd just call it even. However, if the relative motion were enough that I'd normally use velocity-based DCV I'd probably go with that.[/quote']

 

Main reason? The Move By suffers from a reduction to base damage, and the possibility of self-inflicted damage, which this attack won't. For balance, it should have some other drawback.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Run by shooting

 

Main reason? The Move By suffers from a reduction to base damage' date=' and the possibility of self-inflicted damage, which this attack won't. For balance, it should have some other drawback.[/quote']

 

However, this attack wouldn't add velocity-based damage. It also doesn't gain one of the tremendous bonuses that a Move By gives to a HTH attack: being able to strike from a significant distance. Ranged attacks already have that built-in.