Has anyone used the DEX split-into-3 rules in a Champions game?

[Kenn]

In the Ultimate Speedster there were alternate rules given for splitting DEX up into three individual characteristics. I think they were Agility, Reflexes and Accuracy. (Don't have the book w/me right now.)

 

The fantasy game Savinien is going to be running next week uses them (because the book we're playtesting does too.)

 

But in discussing it, I was reminded that I've considered using them. But I was wondering if anyone else had used them, specifically in a super heroic game, and what kind of effect they had.

 

So has anyone used those rules for a Champions game?

[Legatus]

Re: Has anyone used the DEX split-into-3 rules in a Champions game?

 

I haven't. It is my opinion that the basic HERO system is rules heavy enough and while I am always willing to accept new rules that are built so create a certain special effect, that couldn't be simulated before, I always shy back from rules that are built (IMO) to simulate more "reality". In this case I never understood why it was necessary to break DEX up further. To me it is good as it is.

 

Hope this makes any sense to you.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Has anyone used the DEX split-into-3 rules in a Champions game?

 

Not as a Champions game, but we did something similar years ago (home-ruled, way back in 4th Edition days) for a dimensional-travel Heroic-level game. It worked just fine, and didn't over-complicate things IMO.

 

Caveat: I don't have Ultimate Speedster, so I don't know exactly how how the different types of DEX affect OCV, DCV, and SPD, but the names given sound very similar to how we did it.

 

I expect breaking out DEX would certainly eliminate the potential for DEX-creep that I've seen in many Champions games. Even at 3 Active points per point of DEX, it's a tremendous bargain, since that one stat affects so much. I'd also expect that it would mainly be a complication only during character generation and while spending experience points. During game play, you'd have the various skill rolls, OCV, and DCV already figured out, and it would only really be an issue if Adjustment powers come into play.

 

If everybody involved is an experienced Champions player, you'll probably need to get used to the change. But in our Heroic-level game, IIRC it didn't take too long.

[Kenn]

Re: Has anyone used the DEX split-into-3 rules in a Champions game?

 

Well, I wasn't thinking about it in terms of reality, per se.

 

Mostly, it grew out of a scene in a comic book I read YEARS ago. In the "Return of Barry Allen", there was a battle between "Barry" and Max Mercury (who was still being written as if he really had been the golden-age Quicksilver; Quicksilver had been a VERY acrobatic speedster.) The battle moved into the girder-work of a building under construction. The acrobatic Max was moving about fine. The normally faster "Barry" had to slow down because he was less sure on his feet. Essentially, Max was more agile, "Barry" had a better over all reaction time.

 

I've wondered about modeling this in Champions/Hero ever since. There are characters I specifically put a limitation on some of their heightened DEX to represent this. (I considered Lightning Reflexes and skill levels, but since this was more expensive than just DEX, it seemed broken.) But a part of me thought that this kind of difference should be more inherent.

 

Then, when I saw the Ultimate Speedster, it seemed like "Yeah!"

 

But while it answered the question as the how, a part of me wondered if I should include it.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Has anyone used the DEX split-into-3 rules in a Champions game?

 

I have not used the Ultimate Speedster setup specifically, but I have used some "alternate" DEX rules. For most games, I don't think it is worth the extra complication, but there are a few exceptions.

 

If you are playing a character with Normal CHA Maxima (either because it is heroic level or because that is just the character's background in a superhero game), having the ability to buy stuff like Lightning Reflexes is really handy. However, it is more expensive to build a character with Lightning Reflexes and extra skill levels to put him in league with superheroes than it is to just buy the extra DEX. If all you are doing is making sure that your hero gets to go first in a heroic level campaign it is less of an issue.

 

You can lessen the importance of DEX slightly by making initiative based on the sum of DEX and INT, basically the sum of physical and mental agility. This of course makes INT more valuable, but most of the value of INT is out-of-combat applications, so it doesn't dominate so much. It also means that players tend to buy up INT more, which is a good thing IMO, but you might not want that. Anyway that is the initiative system I prefer, because I like smarter characters and it helps prevent DEX monsters from dominating combat.

[Kenn]

Re: Has anyone used the DEX split-into-3 rules in a Champions game?

 

Unless your speedster has also bought up his INT with the justification of "thinking really fast". And yeah, my group's main speedster has done that.