Limited powers in a focus

[Ninja-Bear]

Hello Ya'll,

 

I been thinking lately about powers in weapons-as stated, if the weapon is defined as an universal then anyone can use the power. That is fine. But there are certain situations which I feel that not everyone should have access that the power. Example is found in Classic Enemies 4th ed. The Destroyer special has a note that the +6 OCV should not be used by everyone,only those that have either a weapon Familarity or something similiar. Now the blaster (I believe 9d6 N) is available to anyone. Now the book doesn't have a limit on the combat levels-I'm thonking that it should.

 

So the question is what sort of limitation should I use? I'm thinking that if its worth points, then it should be only - 1/2 (I thinking IAF, whereas the inobvious part is refering to whether the character has the appropriate skill or not or they could make a int roll at -3)

 

Comments are very much apprieciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

It's not really Limiting the Owner of the power, therefore it's not worth points to them.

 

I suggest that while all the Powers use the same Focus; some of them are defined as Universal and some as Personal.

[Lucius]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

Not worth a limitation.

 

One power could be Universal (The damage) and another Personal (The OCV)

 

There is no difference in cost. You certainly don't get a Limitation for "my weapon can't be used against me."

 

So there is no reason why a power can't be somewhere between Universal and Personal - i.e. only for those with an appropriate Skill. There should be no cost effect for that either, unless it's especially avantageous or disadvantageous to the character actually paying the points (assuming it's a power bought with points.) If it takes a Skill, but only those you have taught yourself have the Skill, that might mean it costs MORE, not less. If the only other person who can use it is your Hunted, that might be a Limitation.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Transport Familiarity: Palindromedary

[prestidigitator]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

I'm with the others on the Universal/Personal split. I don't think it should really be worth more or less points generally if you have to have a skill to use it. There might be some exceptions, but generally requirements between abilities are a story/setting restriction IMO, not in the realm of point costs.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

It's not really Limiting the Owner of the power, therefore it's not worth points to them.

 

I suggest that while all the Powers use the same Focus; some of them are defined as Universal and some as Personal.

 

That's what I was thinking and calling it skill for a lack of a better term.

[GMumford]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

I understand the argument for Universal/Personal being +/-0. If it's Universal, your enemy can use it against you. If it's Personal, your teammates can't borrow it. But if Universal/Personal is conditional it may throw that argument out the window. If only someone who wears a size three can use the battlesuit that's one thing. But if only the good guys can wield the magic hammer, or only someone who has a specific skill which all your teammates have, that should be worth something.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

If anything it's an Advantage to say "You can only use this Universal Focus if you spend points on Skill X."

 

Anyone can pick up a gun and pull the trigger (Universal); Anyone can get benefit from he guns superior targeting computer if they have a Link (Universal With Condition).

 

That definitely sounds like an Advantage to the Owner of the Power, the superior targeting only works for those who spent points to be like him. Or, his teammates can't use that superior targeting computer without also having spent points (a Limitation that he can't share his Universal Focus?).

 

Ah, even that sounds like a total wash.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

If anything it's an Advantage to say "You can only use this Universal Focus if you spend points on Skill X."

 

Anyone can pick up a gun and pull the trigger (Universal); Anyone can get benefit from he guns superior targeting computer if they have a Link (Universal With Condition).

 

That definitely sounds like an Advantage to the Owner of the Power, the superior targeting only works for those who spent points to be like him. Or, his teammates can't use that superior targeting computer without also having spent points (a Limitation that he can't share his Universal Focus?).

 

Ah, even that sounds like a total wash.

 

The more I think about though, and maybe getting confused, is that if you define the weapon as oif, and I'm thinking of Hi (fire) from the original ninja hero, then the weapon cannot be taken from you in combat and used against you. Although out of combat is a different story. I'm thinking that this isn't too terribly different then with the skill idea.

 

Also you can look at it that instead of an advantage, your not as many points from an oaf lim., therefore you shouldn't be as disadvantaged.

 

(Also, I'm really trying to put the kibosh only any arguments-that even though its defined as universal, by common sense may not be able to do it.)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

Regarding the OIF versus OAF issue - we're assuming that the Attack and the Skill are the Exact Same Focus. Therefore regarding weather it's OAF or OIF isn't an issue. It could be either within the context.

 

The context that is important is: once it leaves the Owners Control (either by Handing To Friend or Taken By Enemy) what's happening?

 

1) The Attack can be used by either (Universal)

2) The Skill can only be used by those with appropriate Skills Purchased (Personal, with Universal Attributes)

 

You can hand it to Skilled Friend A to get the most use, but Unskilled Friend B only has access to 1.

You can lose it to Skilled Enemy A who gets the most use against you, but Unskilled Enemy B only has access to 1.

 

Either way you have a pretty balanced side of the equation. Regardless of the Focus Accessability in and of itself. In fact Accessability doesn't even play into this exercise.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

Using the cyber-link example, I'd say a gun with a physical link might have OAF on the basic attack because you can yank the thing out of the character's hands, but OIF on other powers because you'd have to have the opportunity and time to disconnect the cable from the character. However, that's independent of whether you could then fire the weapon (perhaps there's a safety controlled through the link) or gain any benefit from connecting the link to your own cyber-jack (is the gun programmed or physically customized to work only for its owner?).

 

So there's an example of two (or more) powers built into a single Focus where some powers could be built with OAF while some use OIF, and some could be built with Personal while others are built with Universal. There are some common sense/SFX dependencies that may eliminate some of the combinations (like being able to take full advantage of the cyber-link but not being able to fire the weapon maybe), but that's context-dependent.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

All my modern Cyberlinks use Bluetooth these days...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

All my modern Cyberlinks use Bluetooth these days...

 

Well, similar arguments can apply, but I think the physical link makes visualizing the problem a little easier. Particularly the Personal vs. Universal aspect of it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

 

But if the issue is usability outside the owners control, then IF or AF isn't really in the discussion, we just need to know what happens when they lose the Focus.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

Right. Hence:

 

Using the cyber-link example' date=' I'd say a gun with a physical link might have OAF on the basic attack because you can yank the thing out of the character's hands, but OIF on other powers because you'd have to have the opportunity and time to disconnect the cable from the character. [b']However, that's independent of whether you could then fire the weapon[/b] (perhaps there's a safety controlled through the link) or gain any benefit from connecting the link to your own cyber-jack (is the gun programmed or physically customized to work only for its owner?).

 

So there's an example of two (or more) powers built into a single Focus where some powers could be built with OAF while some use OIF, and some could be built with Personal while others are built with Universal. There are some common sense/SFX dependencies that may eliminate some of the combinations (like being able to take full advantage of the cyber-link but not being able to fire the weapon maybe), but that's context-dependent.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

For the record, I just posted this question to Mr. Long, and his reply was to ask this forum. But he also stated pf doing something like what Gahost Angel has suggested, of making a new definition of personal. Sp without further ado, I humblely say that G-A is right.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Limited powers in a focus

 

If anything it's an Advantage to say "You can only use this Universal Focus if you spend points on Skill X."

 

Anyone can pick up a gun and pull the trigger (Universal); Anyone can get benefit from he guns superior targeting computer if they have a Link (Universal With Condition).

 

That definitely sounds like an Advantage to the Owner of the Power, the superior targeting only works for those who spent points to be like him. Or, his teammates can't use that superior targeting computer without also having spent points (a Limitation that he can't share his Universal Focus?).

 

Ah, even that sounds like a total wash.

 

I'm going with "total wash". A focus can be universal and anyone, friend or enemy, can use it. Or it can be personal, and no one else, friend or enemy, can use it. So why should something in between carry a different cost. "Only highly trained weapons experts can use it" (OK - I expect to see characters using it with some skills that indicate they are highly trained weapons experts), or "Only wizards can use this wand", or even "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of ... Thor"

 

That last is pushing it (much harder to be used by an enemy, and easier to be used by an ally), but where the condition does not impact the likelihood that the person able to use the focus is friend or foe, it seems reasonable that the restriction should be neither an advantage nor a limitation. It will sometimes have a benefit, and other times be detrimental, which sounds like a classic case of Special Effects.