Martial Arts and AOE

[Guest Celt]

I'm cross-posting this from the CO forums because it plummeted down the page count there like a stone into stygian depths. Mainly I'm interested in seeing if my reasoning is unfounded. Thread Link

 

It seems to me there's a dearth of martial arts Area of Effect (AOE) attacks outside of Dual Blades. At a certain point the use of AOE becomes if not essential then at least extremely useful and recommended for clearing henchmen as well as nemesis waves. Among the martial arts trees Claws has no AOE attacks and Single Blade has one described as Close Area Atack that is actually single target (Reaper's Caress). The weaponless tree Martial Arts has a single cone AOE in Dragon Kick. Dual Blades on the other hand has three AOE attacks- Eye of the Storm (PBAOE sphere), Blade Tempest (cone AOE), and Sword Cyclone (another PBAOE sphere).

 

I understand not every power set is necessarily supposed to be exactly equal to every other power set. However there is already enough duplication of other powers between the different Martial Arts trees that it struck me as odd that AOE would be so concentrated in one tree and completely absent in others.

 

My suggestion in short is to add more AOE attacks to the other martial arts trees. Thanks for your time.

[SvZurich]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

You'd think claws would have it. Everyone has seen Tasmanian Devil spin.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

It's as reasonable for Claws or Single Blade as it is for Hand or Dual Blade concept-wise, and in metagame-think doesn't detract from the other powers. I would think tha disctinction could be made between the powers captilizing on some of the secondary effects such as Shredded. Comment over there if you want to bump it up.

[slikmar]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

My main is an UA:MA and last night I was just saying the same thing to my 2 friends I play with . To amplify the problem to me, my 2 friends characters not only have many AE attacks but also were built specifically for effect as opposed, really, for concept, whereas my MA has stayed almost completely within the MA framework with the exception of energyshield/laser knight advantage. Since Trumpcard's powers are a martial artist in a powered suit, I feel this is still well within his concept. I would love to see some type of whirling dervish attack, where you strike each opponent around you, similar to the gun kata of Lead Tempest or Bullet Ballet where you spin and turn kicking and punching around you.

[ajackson]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

My annoyance with the MA builds is that they're all click-happy; you're going to be pushing multiple buttons per second to be effective. They have a shortage of charged powers, sustained powers, high-energy attacks with cooldown, and other things that contribute to keeping click count down.

[freshrod]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

Greetings

 

I've noticed this problem too. My main character started as MA, but has not taken most of his powers (with the exception of righteous fist and lunge) from other powersets, mainly Might.

 

While I think there will, and should always be differences in each powerset, I also would say there are some core types of powers every set should have.

 

1 Power-Builder

1 Main Attack (the effects will be what separates these)

1 Block (again, with different effects that go with the powerset)

1 AoE

 

Then you come to Ranged. This is a little dependant on your build.

 

2 Ranged Attacks

 

(Melee)

1 Closing Ranged - If you are a Melee guy, you need something to close distance to your target. But that isn't the same as something to damage and stay at range.

1 True Ranged - where you can do some damage and still stay at range.

 

(Ranged)

1 Single Target Ranged

1 Multi-Target Ranged

 

Just my two cents.

[yamamura]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

Unfortunately that is why I have backed off on playing Shadow Fighter Miki my MA in favor of Kitsune Kawaii with her effective Iron Cyclone.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

Greetings

 

I've noticed this problem too. My main character started as MA, but has not taken most of his powers (with the exception of righteous fist and lunge) from other powersets, mainly Might.

 

While I think there will, and should always be differences in each powerset, I also would say there are some core types of powers every set should have.

 

1 Power-Builder

1 Main Attack (the effects will be what separates these)

1 Block (again, with different effects that go with the powerset)

1 AoE

 

Then you come to Ranged. This is a little dependant on your build.

 

2 Ranged Attacks

 

(Melee)

1 Closing Ranged - If you are a Melee guy, you need something to close distance to your target. But that isn't the same as something to damage and stay at range.

1 True Ranged - where you can do some damage and still stay at range.

 

(Ranged)

1 Single Target Ranged

1 Multi-Target Ranged

 

Just my two cents.

 

That's a pretty good summation of what each archetype should contain for powers. Secondary effects appropriate to each power set can differe them from each othe. You should post that over in the CO Suggestion board so I can 'me too' it.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

I'm trying a sailor revenant with dual cutlasses and it appears even the basic energy builder power Rain of Steel is area effect cone. So that's one tree in martial arts with four AOEs, and two with none. As Bob Saget says, that ain't right.

[slikmar]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

Greetings

 

I've noticed this problem too. My main character started as MA, but has not taken most of his powers (with the exception of righteous fist and lunge) from other powersets, mainly Might.

 

While I think there will, and should always be differences in each powerset, I also would say there are some core types of powers every set should have.

 

1 Power-Builder

1 Main Attack (the effects will be what separates these)

1 Block (again, with different effects that go with the powerset)

1 AoE

 

Then you come to Ranged. This is a little dependant on your build.

 

2 Ranged Attacks

 

(Melee)

1 Closing Ranged - If you are a Melee guy, you need something to close distance to your target. But that isn't the same as something to damage and stay at range.

1 True Ranged - where you can do some damage and still stay at range.

 

(Ranged)

1 Single Target Ranged

1 Multi-Target Ranged

 

Just my two cents.

 

I agree, but unfortunately by your description, they all do have these things. I will use unarmed, since that is what I am familiar with:

Power Builder - Righteous Fists

Main attack - Thundering Kicks, Burning Chi Punch (big damage charge up attack)

Block - ok, no special block, should be one on the lines of the Might one, though I recommend instead Power Armors shield with the Laser Knight advantage.

AOE - Dragon Kick (click/charge up power, hits short cone in frontal arc, no maximum targets, fully charged has a stun on it, 10 second recharge), Legsweep (or something like that) hits multiple target, can remove travel powers.

Closing Range - Thunderbolt Lunge (works from quite a distance out (50m iirc), target opponent, move toward them, hit it, leaps to them kicking them for damage and potentially a small knockback/down)

True Range - the pathetically weak Shuriken (though you can get the advantage Kusari Gama on it to create a attack and pull to you effect.

 

My problem is, I want more then 1 useful, attack based AE. Like I mentioned above, something along the kata line where you move through a quick sequence of moves, say as a maintain power. Longer you hold it, more of the kata you do, more damage you do.

[rayoman]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

 

I understand not every power set is necessarily supposed to be exactly equal to every other power set. However there is already enough duplication of other powers between the different Martial Arts trees that it struck me as odd that AOE would be so concentrated in one tree and completely absent in others.

 

My suggestion in short is to add more AOE attacks to the other martial arts trees. Thanks for your time.

 

I haven't played much with martial arts, yet but I have noticed some interesting thingswhile playing Militiaman. I have found more items and power replaces for blades (single and dual) powersets than anything else. It has me thinking someone at Cryptic may have a woody for swords. It could be coincidence but I have sold and deconstructed more blade/dual blade items than any other type of item.

 

I created a white hair, pointy eared, black skinned hero who wields two blades but I have not brought him into play yet. I can't decide on what type of costume to give him nor have I decided on a name. Tzzrid Nedroud may be too close to the source. I guess I could name him Overpowered Drow.

[mikesama]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

I haven't played much with martial arts, yet but I have noticed some interesting thingswhile playing Militiaman. I have found more items and power replaces for blades (single and dual) powersets than anything else. It has me thinking someone at Cryptic may have a woody for swords. It could be coincidence but I have sold and deconstructed more blade/dual blade items than any other type of item.

 

I created a white hair, pointy eared, black skinned hero who wields two blades but I have not brought him into play yet. I can't decide on what type of costume to give him nor have I decided on a name. Tzzrid Nedroud may be too close to the source. I guess I could name him Overpowered Drow.

 

Actually there is a guy that works at Cryptic I know through my practice in Western Martial Arts, I would not be surprised if he was one of the people that pushed for more swords in the game.

[Phil]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

It has me thinking someone at Cryptic may have a woody for swords. It could be coincidence but I have sold and deconstructed more blade/dual blade items than any other type of item.

 

Oh absolutely. And claws! How many superheroes use either a sword or claws?!

[Checkmate]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

I'm just hypothesizing here, but what seems to be standard in other MMO's is you have different classes with different strengths and weaknesses. For example in Everquest 2 you have Wizard and Warlock, both are "Caster Classes" or DPS Classes (Damage Per Second), but they go about it very differently. The Wizard does direct damage. That means he casts a fireball (or Ice Comet is my favorite ) and the target takes a lot of damage and that's it.

 

A Warlock on the other hand, does a lot of DoT's (Damage over Time) that means you hit a target with your spell and every second it does some damage until the max is reached.

 

Maybe the Martial Arts lines in Champs is the same way? One line does better damage, one has more AoE?

[Arkham]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

Actually there is a guy that works at Cryptic I know through my practice in Western Martial Arts' date=' I would not be surprised if he was one of the people that pushed for more swords in the game.[/quote']

 

Personally, I suspect it has more to do with sword variety being an easier thing to create than most anything else.

[slikmar]

Re: Martial Arts and AOE

 

I'm just hypothesizing here, but what seems to be standard in other MMO's is you have different classes with different strengths and weaknesses. For example in Everquest 2 you have Wizard and Warlock, both are "Caster Classes" or DPS Classes (Damage Per Second), but they go about it very differently. The Wizard does direct damage. That means he casts a fireball (or Ice Comet is my favorite ) and the target takes a lot of damage and that's it.

 

A Warlock on the other hand, does a lot of DoT's (Damage over Time) that means you hit a target with your spell and every second it does some damage until the max is reached.

 

Maybe the Martial Arts lines in Champs is the same way? One line does better damage, one has more AoE?

 

That would make sense, but sadly not true. My friend and I were comparing unarmed combats non AE attacks vs other frameworks AE ones and the damage was within 5%. This is not balanced as most AEs will hit 3 or more opponents every round. I think the worst offender right now is Sonic Arrow with the AE advantage. 3 targets that does about 60-70% (can only be rank 2 because of buying the AE) of the biggest damage single target attack unarmed does at rank 3 with the added bonus of stunning the 3 mobs.