Yansuf Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG Two, actually. The woman was made of 99.44% pure awesome! "You are attempting to annoy me. I fear you shall suceed. You should fear it also." "Shopping! Want to see what I got?" "I paid far too much for it." "I suggest you surrender unconditionally upon my lord's mercy. He may still have some." Actually it was "I fear you might succeed." But obviously that is a quible. I agree with you completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yansuf Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG Originally Posted by Kristopher IMO, the treatment of Cordelia by the Beta Colony authorities was unforgiveable, regardless of their "justification", and showed the real nature of the society on that planet. It's one of the prettiest dystopias in science fiction I completely disagree. Beta colony was/is far from perfect, but it was/is far from a dystopia. The world of 1984 was a dystopia; Beta Colony is a flawed society, but I would rather live there than in Jackson's Whole, Cetaganda, or Barrayar prior to Vorkosigan's regency. (And maybe even after.) Not to mention I would MUCH rather live there than in the Soviet Union, Red China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, and many more. Not being a utopia does not equal being a dystopia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG I completely disagree. Beta colony was/is far from perfect, but it was/is far from a dystopia. The world of 1984 was a dystopia; Beta Colony is a flawed society, but I would rather live there than in Jackson's Whole, Cetaganda, or Barrayar prior to Vorkosigan's regency. (And maybe even after.) Not to mention I would MUCH rather live there than in the Soviet Union, Red China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, and many more. Not being a utopia does not equal being a dystopia. State use of invasive psychology or other "mind control" techniques offends and terrifies me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yansuf Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG State use of invasive psychology or other "mind control" techniques offends and terrifies me. Me too. But this one incident (and based on Betan law, if Cordelia's mother hadn't agreed, they couldn't have done it) does not a dystopia make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmakaze Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG I think the closest to an actual utopia we see in that universe is Athos, and there are issues there, too. Every culture is shown as having its strong and weak points. Beta is rich and egalitarian, but enforces its prosperity with social controls that are pretty totalitarian. Barrayar has certain kinds of freedom, but also serious issues with women, the disabled, and outsiders. Cetaganda rich and powerful, but rigid and dangerously chauvinistic. Athos is a pastoral paradise, as long as they're careful to never let any new ideas in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG Me too. But this one incident (and based on Betan law, if Cordelia's mother hadn't agreed, they couldn't have done it) does not a dystopia make. IIRC, there were also people who had to hide from the authorities to avoid mandatory psychological "help". And it was the fact that the people dealing with Cordelia were so convinced that they were right that they never stopped to consider any other possibilties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yansuf Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG IIRC, there were also people who had to hide from the authorities to avoid mandatory psychological "help". And it was the fact that the people dealing with Cordelia were so convinced that they were right that they never stopped to consider any other possibilties. Assuming you mean IIRC as "If I Recall Correctly" (if not, please define) I don't really recall that. Are you referring to Baz Jesek? He wasn't hiding from "psychological help", he was hiding from everyone and everything. He did that on every world he landed on (he wasn't Betan.) If you are referring to someone else, please specify. I do agree with you on the second point; but there are people like that in every society. Except a utopia I suppose, but I don't know of any actual utopias, either in reality or fiction. There are alleged utopias in fiction, but I don't know of any that don't have either dystopian aspects or are obviously not credible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yansuf Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG I think the closest to an actual utopia we see in that universe is Athos' date=' and there are issues there, too. Every culture is shown as having its strong and weak points. Beta is rich and egalitarian, but enforces its prosperity with social controls that are pretty totalitarian. Barrayar has certain kinds of freedom, but also serious issues with women, the disabled, and outsiders. Cetaganda rich and powerful, but rigid and dangerously chauvinistic. Athos is a pastoral paradise, as long as they're careful to never let any new ideas in...[/quote'] Athos is pastoral, but I don't recall it as a paradise. Except for their religion/reproduction system, it seemed a typical colony world that hadn't industrialized yet, apparently because they couldn't afford it. And you needed a security clearance to read off world publication; not my idea of utopia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG Athos is pastoral, but I don't recall it as a paradise. Except for their religion/reproduction system, it seemed a typical colony world that hadn't industrialized yet, apparently because they couldn't afford it. And you needed a security clearance to read off world publication; not my idea of utopia. If I recall correctly, they were actively trying to maintain that particular culture and tech level and society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG IIRC, there were also people who had to hide from the authorities to avoid mandatory psychological "help". And it was the fact that the people dealing with Cordelia were so convinced that they were right that they never stopped to consider any other possibilties. Cops and counter-spies do that all the time. Occupational hazard. And the only people who had to hide from the authorities to avoid therapy, were the ones we'd put in jail. It's the Betan euphemism for "prison sentence". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawangaKid Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG I never considered the Vorkosigan stories to be space opera' date=' myself.[/quote'] And yet a story of Miles does appear in The Space Opera Renaissance edited by David G. Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer. Pulp / Space Opera / Military SF -- it's a good series to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG Yes, I wouldn't say space opera requires an arch-villain. It just needs to be an adventure story in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG Yes' date=' I wouldn't say space opera requires an arch-villain. It just needs to be an adventure story in space.[/quote'] Which is, IMO, a far too broad definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Miles Vorkosigan RPG Two addenda. The MHB on Beta Colony has far too much power and Lois has the knack of creating really horrific (and villainous) villains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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