Proposal for new mental power advantages

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

There's got to be some interim level of effectiveness between "overwhelming" and "largely ineffective". That's what I'm trying to get at here.

 

Unlike most offensive powers, mental powers have noncombat applications. Greater versatility should equal lower punch in one single situation.

 

Mental powers are the only offensive powers that might not work at all on normals.

 

Think about it.

4d6 KA--dying normal.

Flash--normal blinded or deafened for a whole turn.

60 STR grab or 40 STR TK grab--normal's never getting out.

Entangle--normal's never getting out.

Major(10 point per level) Transform--normal's getting turned into whatever is specified.

Drain--normal loses lots of whatever gets drained.

12d6 Blast or punch--normal is in lala land and seriously injured if not actually dying.

Pretty much every offensive power in the book is guaranteed effective on normals, so long as a pretty easy to hit roll is made.

 

Except mental powers. That normal makes their breakout roll, you just blew a phase trying to use your awesome psionic powers to get the normal to do something they're normally against doing. And right there my suspension of disbelief dies a horrible death, and my sense of what's fair and not fair kicks in.

 

Of all the powers you listed above, which one can get you past the sentry without any alarm being raised? [Even if you one shot the sentry, your attack power was pereceivable] Or obtain information from an unwitting or unwilling target of interrogation? Mental powers like Mind Control and Mental Illusions are much more versatile, with numerous possible out of combat uses. That should not come for free.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

Unlike most offensive powers, mental powers have noncombat applications. Greater versatility should equal lower punch in one single situation.

 

 

 

Of all the powers you listed above, which one can get you past the sentry without any alarm being raised? [Even if you one shot the sentry, your attack power was pereceivable] Or obtain information from an unwitting or unwilling target of interrogation? Mental powers like Mind Control and Mental Illusions are much more versatile, with numerous possible out of combat uses. That should not come for free.

 

The only problem with that argument is, because these powers are designed to a 12d6 requirement for max(or near-max) effect, and even at that level a guy with a 10 EGO can snap out of it with disturbing regularity, even for superheroic level mentalists you are essentially putting the top levels of effect off limits (except for the aforementioned pushed haymaker option). When you scale down to 20-40 active points, the +30 level is not even achievable, the +20 level is largely ineffective, and even the +10 level is far from a sure thing against 0 point normals.

 

So, there's a severe downscaling problem for offensive mental powers that just doesn't exist for other offensive powers, because the baseline defense(10 EGO and mental defense) is set to be adequate for resisting high-level effects, which means that as you scale down, even low-level effects are now readily resistable by everybody, not just PCs and major NPCs. And a relatively modest investment in EGO and mental defense will render a character effectively immune to MC/MI. +15 EGO or +15 mental defense or any combination thereof will shut down the mentalist's effectiveness entirely. Even if you manage to get EGO + 15 for an EGO +10 effect on a 25 EGO target, a breakout roll of 13- means instant breakout from MC 5 out of 6 times, and a mere 1 phase of effect for MI 5 out of 6 times. Not only are these powers the least combat-effective on a point-for-point basis, they tend to have cheap defense too.

Out of combat, given a 60 active point mental power, the only level that's reliable most of the time is EGO+10 (target will do things they wouldn't mind doing, or illusions of minor alterations of reality), because that averages a -4 on breakout rolls, down to 7 or less, given a 10 EGO. A 9 or less breakout roll still permits a 40% chance of breakout, which means an EGO +20 effect is still a bit iffy. Now try it with a 40 active point MC or MI without haymakering--if you roll well and get 30 points of effect, even EGO + 10 is still a bit iffy, only EGO (very minor alterations of reality, or target doing what they were inclined to do anyway) level effects are reliable.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

I wouldn't mind seeing those Mental Powers become 10 points per d6, and Cumulative with no maximum by default. "All or Nothing" then becomes a -1 limitation. We could then remove breakout rolls in favour of some mechanic which gradually degrades the effect of the mental power.

 

The problem with the status quo is that there truly are "all or nothing". If it works, and with an average roll of 42, it often will, it's a one punch in the absence of breakout rolls. Should a 12d6 mind Control have a 50/50 chance of taking a character out of the fight in a single shot, assuming it hits? What other 60 AP attack, with no noncombat use, enjoys that benefit?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

I wouldn't mind seeing those Mental Powers become 10 points per d6, and Cumulative with no maximum by default. "All or Nothing" then becomes a -1 limitation. We could then remove breakout rolls in favour of some mechanic which gradually degrades the effect of the mental power.

 

The problem with the status quo is that there truly are "all or nothing". If it works, and with an average roll of 42, it often will, it's a one punch in the absence of breakout rolls. Should a 12d6 mind Control have a 50/50 chance of taking a character out of the fight in a single shot, assuming it hits? What other 60 AP attack, with no noncombat use, enjoys that benefit?

 

A killing attack on a target with little to no resistant defense, to answer your question. A 60 point entangle could do that to many character archetypes(a martial artist who lacks an escape maneuver, for example). Flash attacks can effectively take a character out of a fight for up to a turn, if they lack the capacity to otherwise target opponents.

I've never advocated for no breakout rolls, just that they be slightly tougher to break out of--this suggested advantage is one way of doing that. Another might be to shift to EGO vs. EGO for mental powers that the mentalist is focused on (however you wish to define that) and a straight ego roll for those she is not, with a possible option to make breakout attempts every phase during combat situations, instead of at increasing time increments.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

A killing attack on a target with little to no resistant defense' date=' to answer your question.[/quote']

 

Or a normal attack on a target with few or no defenses, I suppose...

 

A 60 point entangle could do that to many character archetypes(a martial artist who lacks an escape maneuver' date=' for example).[/quote']

 

I've never seen entangles dominate a game, or be inordinately effective at removing characters from combat. Perhaps the ability of other characters to assist should be considered.

 

Flash attacks can effectively take a character out of a fight for up to a turn' date=' if they lack the capacity to otherwise target opponents.[/quote']

 

They are at a disadvantage, but they can still take actions of their own volition.

 

The problem with mental powers is that "fully effective or nothing" switch. If it's too easy to achieve and maintain a high level of effect, the powers become too potent. Make it too easy to avoid that high level of effect, and the power is just a source of frustration for the player.

 

I've never advocated for no breakout rolls, just that they be slightly tougher to break out of--this suggested advantage is one way of doing that. Another might be to shift to EGO vs. EGO for mental powers that the mentalist is focused on (however you wish to define that) and a straight ego roll for those she is not, with a possible option to make breakout attempts every phase during combat situations, instead of at increasing time increments.

[Ice9]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

Mental powers are the only offensive powers that might not work at all on normals.

 

Think about it.

4d6 KA--dying normal.

Flash--normal blinded or deafened for a whole turn.

60 STR grab or 40 STR TK grab--normal's never getting out.

Entangle--normal's never getting out.

Major(10 point per level) Transform--normal's getting turned into whatever is specified.

Drain--normal loses lots of whatever gets drained.

12d6 Blast or punch--normal is in lala land and seriously injured if not actually dying.

Pretty much every offensive power in the book is guaranteed effective on normals, so long as a pretty easy to hit roll is made.

 

Except mental powers. That normal makes their breakout roll, you just blew a phase trying to use your awesome psionic powers to get the normal to do something they're normally against doing. And right there my suspension of disbelief dies a horrible death, and my sense of what's fair and not fair kicks in.

 

I think the problem here is that there isn't enough difference between normals and heroes/supers in resisting mental powers. Think about it - most of these attacks would have much less effect on a PC, because the "culture" of Champions, and to an extent other settings, is to buy PD/ED much higher than any normal. Now that still leaves alternate attack types, but some (Flash, Drain) won't usually defeat a character alone, and others (Entangle, grab) can be escaped quickly with the help of teammates. Transform is potentially a winning move, but not usually in one shot (and even less so in 5E).

 

As a result, Mental Powers, in order not to be a one-shot victory against equal foes, lack the ability to one-shot anyone, even normals who they probably should work against. With Cumulative mental powers, you can get the "transform effect", where it will take several shots but the breakout rolls will be pretty much impossible, but I agree a superhuman mentalist should be able to "jedi mind trick" normals on the first attempt.

 

One way to solve this would be to drop the required effect levels by X (maybe 10-20), give PCs an extra X points, and expect them to get some Mental Defense to survive, the same way we currently expect them to get some PD/ED.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

An advantage I've been using for a long time is "Adjustable". I've mentioned it many times before on these threads, but I've renamed it. It's for Mind Control only, but it might be adaptable to other Mental Powers.

 

The idea is that when you use the Mind Control, you declare your command. If you fail to achieve the necessary EGO+X level you can adjust the command downward to something that would fit in the achieved level. And if you happen to achieve a higher level, you can adjust the command upward, or add one of the "Won't remember"/"Will think it was normal" options.

 

The adjusted command must be truly an adjustment to the command, not a completely different command. For example, if you fail to achieve "You fall madly in love with me," you can adjust it downward to "You like me," or "You tolerate me."

 

This is a +1/2 Advantage.

 

Another thought that occurs to me is to add a new possible option to the effect level tables: For an additional +10 points of effect, you can delay the first breakout roll by one phase. And perhaps by an additional phase for each +10. These +10's can't also be used to put penalties on the breakout roll (or for any other purpose). I see this as being something the user can choose when he uses the power - Each +10 more than the effect needed will either apply a -2 to the breakout roll (-1 per +5), or delay the breakout roll by one phase.

[torchwolf]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

An advantage I've been using for a long time is "Adjustable". I've mentioned it many times before on these threads, but I've renamed it. It's for Mind Control only, but it might be adaptable to other Mental Powers.

 

The idea is that when you use the Mind Control, you declare your command. If you fail to achieve the necessary EGO+X level you can adjust the command downward to something that would fit in the achieved level. And if you happen to achieve a higher level, you can adjust the command upward, or add one of the "Won't remember"/"Will think it was normal" options.

 

The adjusted command must be truly an adjustment to the command, not a completely different command. For example, if you fail to achieve "You fall madly in love with me," you can adjust it downward to "You like me," or "You tolerate me."

 

This is a +1/2 Advantage.

 

Another thought that occurs to me is to add a new possible option to the effect level tables: For an additional +10 points of effect, you can delay the first breakout roll by one phase. And perhaps by an additional phase for each +10. These +10's can't also be used to put penalties on the breakout roll (or for any other purpose). I see this as being something the user can choose when he uses the power - Each +10 more than the effect needed will either apply a -2 to the breakout roll (-1 per +5), or delay the breakout roll by one phase.

 

Yes, this rhymes nicely with the rules:

“Typically, if a character using a continuing-effect Mental Power tries to achieve a specified level of effect, but the roll only achieves a lesser degree of effect, the attack fails altogether. However, the GM may, in his discretion, allow the character to achieve a lesser effect instead (or he may let the character make his Effect Roll, then declare what he wants to achieve after seeing what he can succeed at).” (6E1, p149)

[torchwolf]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

Another way of doing it, not involving Advantages:

 

 

 

New Talent: Masterful Mentalist

The character is especially adept in preventing his target from escaping the effects of one of his Mental Powers (Mental Illusions, Mind Control, Mind Scan or Telepathy). The target suffers a modifier of -3 to his Breakout Rolls (in addition to any other modifiers).

The character does not need to make an additional roll nor expend any END to use this Talent – but must still use the particular Mental Power on the target successfully; otherwise this Talent has no effect.

+5d6 ; 0 END (+1/2) (37 Active Points); Only To Increase Penalty To Target's Breakout Roll (-1); Standard Effect Rule (-0). Total Cost: 19 points.

 

 

 

Note 1: This Talent uses the Standard Effect rule (6E1, p133), to avoid additional rolls. It can just as easily be used by adding the 5d6 and counting them separately.

Note 2: This Talent is really just a Power template, and may be reconstructed specifically for any genre, using appropriate Advantages and/or Limitations – or rebuilt at another level of effect, as desired. The parent Mental Power's Advantages and/Limitations can also be applied, but not necessarily.

Note 3: This Talent will only function as intended with Mental Illusions, Mind Control, Mind Scan or Telepathy – not with Mental Blast, Mind Link, nor any other Power built using Advantages to simulate a Mental Power.

[Scott Destroyer]

Hi all,

 

I've loathed the Breakout roll since I first saw it; among changes from the 4E rules in 5E, it was probably the one I disliked the most. In the 6E forums that were up while it was being developed, I suggested dumping it outright, or at the very least giving the Breakout roll a minus equal to the margin by which the attacker succeeded on his mental combat attack roll. After reading this thread, I see that my hopes that 6E would take any step to make Mental Illusions, Mind Control, or Telepathy worth something close to what characters pay for them were apparently utterly without foundation. Ah well, I suppose I never really expected that just because a designer asked for feedback during development, I'd somehow get a system that never required a house rule. At least it seems no worse than 5E, so far.

 

Originally Posted by Ice9:

 

I think the problem here is that there isn't enough difference between normals and heroes/supers in resisting mental powers.

 

Why should there be? It isn't in genre. I seem to recall a scene from Secret Wars in which Spider-Man, after overhearing some disturbing talk from the X-Men, single-handedly wipes the walls with their entire combat roster. After which, his memories of said talk, and of the entire fight, are matter-of-factly wiped from his mind in the space of one or two panels by Professor X. Maxwell Lord is no Professor X, but Superman himself fared no better against his mind control in Infinite Crisis. Coming up with an excuse to buy Mental Defense or improved MCVs is trivially easy - Wolverine and Rogue are no mental giants but have scads of MD, and in the Champions Universe, psi-shields are industrial products. If characters are too cheap to buy them, let them take the consequences, don't punish the mentalists.

 

Originally Posted by Ice9:

 

One way to solve this would be to drop the required effect levels by X (maybe 10-20), give PCs an extra X points, and expect them to get some Mental Defense to survive, the same way we currently expect them to get some PD/ED.

 

This reminds me eerily of a similar approach taken in the 4E Mystic Masters supplement. Mental Powers, even without the Breakout roll, were found to be woefully incapable of producing genre-appropriate effects under typical AP limits. Rather than recosting the Powers, or tweaking AP limits or build point totals, it was decided simply to give everyone in the world a Vulnerability to Magic-sfx Mental Powers - and, IIRC, to give them no points for it. That was a horrid kludge, IMHO, and while I think yours is a bit better, it still requires modifying everyone but the characters with the problematic Powers. It also won't endear you to those who have grumbled of character point inflation with each new edition. I think if you're gonna house-rule at all, you may as well attack the problem at its source - in this case, the Breakout roll.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

I've loathed the Breakout roll since I first saw it; among changes from the 4E rules in 5E' date=' it was probably the one I disliked the most.[/quote']

The breakout roll was already in the rules in 4E.

 

IMO, the problem* with Mind Control was always the lack of definitions of the various control levels. Reading them as-is (with no clarification given) would tend to make them seem completely useless. "Let's see now, I succeeded in my attack roll, and I rolled more on my effect dice than my target's EGO, and he failed his breakout roll, so now I am making him do something he was going to do anyway? Gee, thanks. :stupid:"

 

*OK, one of the problems.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

The breakout roll was already in the rules in 4E.

 

IMO, the problem* with Mind Control was always the lack of definitions of the various control levels. Reading them as-is (with no clarification given) would tend to make them seem completely useless. "Let's see now, I succeeded in my attack roll, and I rolled more on my effect dice than my target's EGO, and he failed his breakout roll, so now I am making him do something he was going to do anyway? Gee, thanks. :stupid:"

 

*OK, one of the problems.

 

I can agree with that. It's difficult enough to do that you should get more than that. Getting Ego+30 (or much better to keep the target from instantly breaking out) is so ridiculously difficult without Cumulative it should essentially result in enslaving someone for life or something. Transform (which does not offer a Breakout Roll) was made Cumulative by default for this very reason I think, but Mental Powers got left in the dust.

[Ice9]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

I think if you're gonna house-rule at all, you may as well attack the problem at its source - in this case, the Breakout roll.

Well, adjusting the required levels would also adjust the Breakout roll. If you can do with Ego+10 what you previously needed Ego+30 for, that's -4 to the Breakout roll, which is pretty significant on someone with normal range Ego.

 

And if you just change breakout rolls in general, how do you get around this problem?

1) It is entirely thematic for Mentalists to "mind trick" an agent or bystander in one wave of the hand.

2) Players do not want to be out of the fight with one wave of an enemy Mentalist's hand. Even if it is in-genre. Conversely, fights aren't going to be very exciting if the PC Mentalist ends them on the first phase.

 

The way this is solved with physical attacks is for PCs (and BBEGs) to buy appropriate defenses, as a necessary function of survival.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

Well, adjusting the required levels would also adjust the Breakout roll. If you can do with Ego+10 what you previously needed Ego+30 for, that's -4 to the Breakout roll, which is pretty significant on someone with normal range Ego.

 

And if you just change breakout rolls in general, how do you get around this problem?

1) It is entirely thematic for Mentalists to "mind trick" an agent or bystander in one wave of the hand.

2) Players do not want to be out of the fight with one wave of an enemy Mentalist's hand. Even if it is in-genre. Conversely, fights aren't going to be very exciting if the PC Mentalist ends them on the first phase.

 

The way this is solved with physical attacks is for PCs (and BBEGs) to buy appropriate defenses, as a necessary function of survival.

 

I think there's a variety of ways of handling it. One is simply to buy a few points of EGO and a few points of mental defense, to differentiate a typical superhero from a normal human. Another is to permit heroes to "push" their EGO scores, to get a bonus on breakout attempts. Still another is for them to get bonuses from teammates helping them break out, or perhaps from them attacking and distracting the mentalist. You could also simply houserule some modest innate benefit to being superheroic/superhuman(a small bonus to breakout rolls).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

Hmm. How about this nifty little power? Maybe I'll go so far as to compare it to Mental Defense, though it has the added benefit of being able to break you out of an existing effect.

 

Mental Breakout

: 10d6 Mind Control [50 Active]; Set Effect: Only to Break the Effects of Other Mental Powers (-2); Only on Self (-1/2) [14 Real]

 

As long as the instructions of the opponent's Mental Power don't preclude you using this power in an opportune moment (like when you have a moment to rest and don't need a Recovery; might want to get in the habit of activating it often just in case you're under the influence without knowing it )....

 

For a great deal of added utility (and to remove arguments about not knowing you're the target of some Mental Powers until you break out), make it Persistent and add Trigger (though now the cost-effectiveness of the power seems to drop dramatically):

 

Mental Breakout

: 10d6 Mind Control; Reduced Endurance: 0 End (+1/2); Persistent (+1/4); Trigger: any Phase character is affected by a detrimental Mental Power (takes no time, resets automatically; +1) [137 Active]; Set Effect: Only to Break the Effects of Other Mental Powers (-2); Only on Self (-1/2) [39 Real]

plus

Mental Awareness [5 Active]; Only for use with

Mental Breakout

(-2) [2 Real]

 

You don't even need the Telepathic Advantage since you inherently have telepathic communication with yourself.

[Naanomi]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

Breakout rolls... there needs to be someway around this system.

 

You take a hallucinogen, you start having... 'Uncontrolled, Based on CON, mental Illusions'. No worries though, even if it is a strong effect you can always 'shake it off' with a few CON breakout rolls, even if you are a normal!

[Ice9]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

For some purposes, Cumulative works pretty well. Instead of Mind Control 12d6, go with Mind Control 6d6, Cumulative to 144 points. It'll take several phases to reach full power, but once it does, good luck trying to break out - even a fairly tough person will be at -18 or more, meaning they have no chance for quite a long time.

 

I think there's a variety of ways of handling it. One is simply to buy a few points of EGO and a few points of mental defense, to differentiate a typical superhero from a normal human.

Which was pretty much what I was suggesting - make Mental Powers a bit more potent, give characters a few more points to compensate, and expect them to buy some mental defenses, unless they want that to be their big weakness.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

Hmm. How about this nifty little power? Maybe I'll go so far as to compare it to Mental Defense, though it has the added benefit of being able to break you out of an existing effect.

 

Mental Breakout

: 10d6 Mind Control [50 Active]; Set Effect: Only to Break the Effects of Other Mental Powers (-2); Only on Self (-1/2) [14 Real]

....

Mental Breakout

: 10d6 Mind Control; Reduced Endurance: 0 End (+1/2); Persistent (+1/4); Trigger: any Phase character is affected by a detrimental Mental Power (takes no time, resets automatically; +1) [137 Active]; Set Effect: Only to Break the Effects of Other Mental Powers (-2); Only on Self (-1/2) [39 Real]

plus

Mental Awareness [5 Active]; Only for use with

Mental Breakout

(-2) [2 Real]

You could probably acheive a similar effect more simply, and maybe cheaper, just buying +X EGO, Only for Breakout Rolls (I figure about a -1/2 limitation, maybe as much as -1, depending on how common Mental Powers are, and how powerful they are).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

You could probably acheive a similar effect more simply' date=' and maybe cheaper, just buying +X EGO, Only for Breakout Rolls (I figure about a -1/2 limitation, maybe as much as -1, depending on how common Mental Powers are, and how powerful they are).[/quote']

 

Maybe, but the point of that power was that it actually forces a Breakout (if the roll is high enough) or may allow another Breakout Roll ahead of schedule (if the roll isn't high enough to straight break you out of the effect). In fact, if the GM permits it, the Triggered version might allow another Breakout Roll every single Phase (or at least when the roll results in a higher bonus than has been used for it so far).

[Scott Destroyer]

Hi again,

 

Originally Posted by PhilFleischmann:

The breakout roll was already in the rules in 4E.

 

Hmm, just dug out and examined my old BBB, and mechanics essentially identical to the Breakout Roll are indeed scattered among the descriptions of the affected Powers, with a passing reference to them in the Mental Powers overview. The problem is even older than I remembered...

 

Originally Posted by Ice9:

And if you just change breakout rolls in general, how do you get around this problem?

1) It is entirely thematic for Mentalists to "mind trick" an agent or bystander in one wave of the hand.

2) Players do not want to be out of the fight with one wave of an enemy Mentalist's hand. Even if it is in-genre. Conversely, fights aren't going to be very exciting if the PC Mentalist ends them on the first phase.

 

The way this is solved with physical attacks is for PCs (and BBEGs) to buy appropriate defenses, as a necessary function of survival.

 

Buying appropriate defenses seems perfectly satisfactory for mental attacks as well - I did suggest something of the sort above. But after reading this thread some more and pondering, I'm having second thoughts about the usefulness of additional minuses to the Breakout Roll (however determined) as a solution to the problem - they could very easily tend to make Mental Powers too good. I'm starting to think that a better solution would be simply to delay the initial Breakout Roll until after the victim's first Phase of Control/Illusions/Scanning/whatever. This would consistently give mentalists one Phase of effect for the points they spend, as other characters get one shot of damage inflicted per hit for their spent points, while avoiding Breakout Roll adjustments that could consistently let a single attack keep someone out of an entire fight. A Breakout Roll penalty to only the initial roll would have a similar, though lesser, effect.

 

Originally Posted by Naanomi:

Breakout rolls... there needs to be someway around this system.

 

For those mentalists with GM's unwilling to tweak the rules, there's always the old standby - throw a "direct attack to the will" (BOECV EGO Drain) in the old Mental Powers Multipower, and hit the target with a few shots of it before clamping on the Mind Control. Cheaper now than before, with Drain ranged by default, and with a good enough MCV edge, you can try Rapid Firing with it to minimize time wasted before getting to your main attacks...

[torchwolf]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

I think I'm going to do some work and simulations on this variant:

 

Instead of Breakout Rolls, use the Grab and Escape rules for breaking out of Mental Powers.

EGO is used instead of STR - "BODY" on dice is used as the STR for a "mental Grab";

EGO can be Pushed for these purposes;

extra Effect achieved by Mentalist is treated as extra EGO for these purposes;

for each step down Time Chart, Mentalist loses 5 pts of Effect (for calculating EGO as STR to maintain "mental Grab"; i.e., rolls 1d6 less);

if target is unaware of attack, target may only use "Casual EGO" (half EGO) to Escape - this is an unconscious effort and takes no time;

if target is aware of attack, to Escape target has option of using Casual EGO (taking no time), or full EGO (requiring an Attack action);

Mentalist may opt for a lesser effect to gain a stronger hold on target - if a "mental Grab" is successfully maintained, the Mentalist may reroll Effect and/or EGO as STR for maintaining "mental Grab".

 

Pros:

- takes into account an additional benefit of achieving a +20 Effect - a target unaware of attack can only use Casual EGO to break out

- makes an option available to the target when attempting to Escape

- makes new tactics available to Mentalist

- may work in conjunction with Combat (or even Martial Arts) Maneuvers for mental combat

 

Cons:

- may make Mentalists too powerful

- may require more bookkeeping

- may overcomplicate things for many types of campaigns

- more dice rolled

 

Yes, this seems more like a house rule as it looks now, but it could be tweaked some to conform to existing mechanics.

Any ideas about this? More pros & cons? Is it too kludgy, and how may it be improved? (of course it can be!)

[dmjalund]

Re: Proposal for new mental power advantages

 

I think I'm going to do some work and simulations on this variant:

 

Instead of Breakout Rolls, use the Grab and Escape rules for breaking out of Mental Powers.

EGO is used instead of STR - "BODY" on dice is used as the STR for a "mental Grab";

EGO can be Pushed for these purposes;

extra Effect achieved by Mentalist is treated as extra EGO for these purposes;

for each step down Time Chart, Mentalist loses 5 pts of Effect (for calculating EGO as STR to maintain "mental Grab"; i.e., rolls 1d6 less);

if target is unaware of attack, target may only use "Casual EGO" (half EGO) to Escape - this is an unconscious effort and takes no time;

if target is aware of attack, to Escape target has option of using Casual EGO (taking no time), or full EGO (requiring an Attack action);

Mentalist may opt for a lesser effect to gain a stronger hold on target - if a "mental Grab" is successfully maintained, the Mentalist may reroll Effect and/or EGO as STR for maintaining "mental Grab".

 

also - if the target fails to use his casual Ego to break out, the Mentalist will be able to control the target for at least one phase