Summon specific being?

[Ice9]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

As has been mentioned, Specific Being is great if you are allowed to combine it with Expanded Class / Variable Effect / whatever to have it summon any specific being of the given type.

However, it's arguable whether that's legal - and if it isn't, then Specific Being has as many downsides as benefits.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

As has been mentioned' date=' Specific Being is great [b']if[/b] you are allowed to combine it with Expanded Class / Variable Effect / whatever to have it summon any specific being of the given type.

However, it's arguable whether that's legal - and if it isn't, then Specific Being has as many downsides as benefits.

 

Agreed.

 

Further, even if the combination is legal, it is the combination that is advantageous. The price of some advantages rises when combined with others that create an exceptional advantage. Reduced END is exceptionally good when combined with Autofire, but we don't raise the price of either at the baseline. We increase the cost of Reduced END when combined with Autofire. We also raise the price of Autofire when it is combined with an attack that does not use the normal OCV vs DCV hit mechanic, but we don't raise the price of Autofire overall.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Well, I think it's the potential for abuse that makes Specific Being so expensive--summoning the precise person who can give you the answers you seek; summoning the hostage; summoning the person with the exact abilities to help you win the fight; etc. If you combine it with Expanded Class or Variable Result, and/or with Slavishly Devoted, you get an extraordinarily useful ability that has "I win" abuse potential written all over it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Summon Any Specific Human Being built on up to 100 points' date=' Slavishly Devoted, Must inhabit locale, arrives under own power, 35 points.[/quote']

 

Not sure I see

 

Congratulations on your new, "flawless absolute mind control over any 100 point human character" ability! If you double the cost, you could either control up to 16 specific 100 point humans(i.e., the humans you call out by name or point to in the room you're in) for up to 10 "tasks"(which, generically speaking, could mean they serve you for up to 10 days, if you have a 10 EGO), or 1 200 point human(a heroic level human or superagent). At the 140 real cost level, you can control a standard superhero, so long as they're "human".

 

I guess Specific Being can be a pretty powerful advantage after all...

 

OK, 35 real points and no GM oversight is our standard. Let’s see…

 

First off, you look to have priced this as 20 x 3.5 = 70 AP (Slavish +1; any human +1; another +1/2 advantage, likely 0 END), as the limitations total -1. Given that, I think you have been pretty conservative with advantage levels as any human could arguably be -1/2 instead.

 

How about…

 

1/2d6 Transform; AoE Radius 4 meters (+1/4), Megascale (40 km radius; +1 1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Constant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Double Penetrating (+1), Always On (-0), No Range (-1/2) 50 AP, 33 RP

 

Transforms the target to my willing slave (hey, that sounds a lot like someone who is slavishly loyal!). It heals normally. Note that, like you I get everyone in the local area, and they have to come to me under their own power. Unlike you, though:

 

- I get everyone and everything within the whole 40 km radius. Why settle for just one slave?

 

- When you become my willing slave, you’ll order your slave to obey me. If you send your slave in from 40 km away, he’ll almost certainly be transformed to my slave before he gets here.

 

- I get no task limit. They heal normally, but they keep taking the effect every phase. If they leave the area, it will still be weeks or months before the effect wears off, and of course they are under orders to visit every now and then.

 

- It takes about one phase per BOD of the target. If they have power defense that is not double impenetrable, it will take about 4 phases per BOD. They need to close 40 km to get to me before I get them.

 

- Character points don’t matter.

 

- I get non-humans as well as humans. Even the trees are devoted to me.

 

- At the 140 real cost level, how big is my Megascale? May as well slap Transdimensional on it as well!

 

Transform is a Stop Sign power, but Summon Specific Being is a Stop Sign advantage. Both merit GM scrutiny.

 

Well' date=' I think it's the potential for abuse that makes Specific Being so expensive--summoning the precise person who can give you the answers you seek; summoning the hostage; summoning the person with the exact abilities to help you win the fight; etc. If you combine it with Expanded Class or Variable Result, and/or with Slavishly Devoted, you get an extraordinarily useful ability that has "I win" abuse potential written all over it.[/quote']

 

Hence the stop sign. Potential abuse is not overridden by cost. It is addressed by GM oversight. Double the cost of my Transform, above, and the 33 RP version costs 66 RP. I can halve the cost by making it 1 pip instead of 1/2 d6. Will that make it less abusive? It actually makes Penetrating MORE effective, but I'd rule that away, so don't count that benefit.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Fair point, although 3 points of doubly impenetrable power defense(costing 4-5 points) completely negates the effectiveness of the transform, while there is no defense to being summoned, if the slavishly devoted advantage is purchased. It's also less obviously munchkin than the transform.

As far as GM oversight goes, if Specific Being is to be an advantage, and a particularly big one at that, then in-game it should largely be treated as an advantage, until it starts to get abused(if you're summoning King Conan over and over again, eventually he's going to show up unprepared or in no condition to fight for you).

 

PS: you forgot to buy Personal Immunity on the Transform.

[Lucius]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

PS: you forgot to buy Personal Immunity on the Transform.

 

 

Why would he want it?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Megascale Transform: Person to Palindromedary, Personal Immunity

[Christopher]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

1/2d6 Transform; AoE Radius 4 meters (+1/4)' date=' Megascale (40 km radius; +1 1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Constant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Double Penetrating (+1), Always On (-0), No Range (-1/2) 50 AP, 33 RP[/quote']

What exaclty is the base here? Transform into Slave is clearly a Severe Transform. And Transform can only be bought in full dice, with one dice of Severe Transform costing 15. So my calcualtion is:

1d6 Severe Mental Transform (Any being into Willing Slave), 15 Base Cost;

Aoe (+1/4), Megascale (+1 1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Cosntant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Penetrating (x2; +1), 75 Actrive Points;

No Range (-1/2), 50 Real Cost

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Fair point' date=' although 3 points of doubly impenetrable power defense(costing 4-5 points) completely negates the effectiveness of the transform, while there is [b']no defense[/b] to being summoned, if the slavishly devoted advantage is purchased. It's also less obviously munchkin than the transform.

 

Not really. Both use stop sign abilities. Oh, and that doubly impenetrable power defense (how many characters buy that?) only negates YOU being transformed. Everyone else in the 40 km radius is still my devoted, willing slave. devoted, willing slaves will not allow their master to come to harm (that will be defined explicitly in my Transform, if need be), so you have to deal with a lot of other people to get to me.

 

It might be fun to make it 1 pip instead, and slap on lots of IPE, so no one even knows who is doing the transform.

 

As far as GM oversight goes' date=' if Specific Being is to be an [b']advantage[/b], and a particularly big one at that, then in-game it should largely be treated as an advantage, until it starts to get abused(if you're summoning King Conan over and over again, eventually he's going to show up unprepared or in no condition to fight for you).

 

If I'm summoning the specific fellow, King Conan, he should eventually show up unable to fight, but if I am summoning Generic Experienced Barbarian Warriors with exactly the same statistics, they will always show up in full battle gear ready to fight? Again, I am forced to question how potentially getting a "specific being" who isn't ready to do the job is superior to getting a generic being who always shows up hale, hearty and ready to go.

 

Sure, if there is, in a specific case, a material advantage to Summoning a specific being, let's impose an additional cost. But not when there is no such advantage to the Summoner. And why would it always be +1? Maybe I should Summon a creature that has the same Transform power suggested above, except it Transforms to the Summoner's willing slave. I don't really case that I get a generic one, so no +1 advantage. And a +1 advantage would not be a huge price to pay, really, would it?

 

PS: you forgot to buy Personal Immunity on the Transform.

 

I deliberately didn't comment on the lack of personal immunity (though I did not think about IPE), so I could say "Why would I care if I am transformed into my own devoted and willing slave?". Actually, that means I can load up with psych limits - once transformed, my only thought is what's best for me, since I am my own devoted and willing slave. I think I'll take a bunch of really powerful, slow moving Hunteds as well.

 

Why would he want it?

 

Exactly

 

What exaclty is the base here?

 

In the examples I gave, it is 1 pip of transform and 1/2d6 of Transform, being 1 DC and 2DC respective;y (maybe I deleted the 1 pip example?) purchased as a Severe Transform.

 

Transform into Slave is clearly a Severe Transform.

 

Yup - it's one of the examples used.

 

 

And Transform can only be bought in full dice

 

Nope. It is listed with a cost in full dice, just like Killing Attack. A 1 point killing attack can be purchased, as indicated in the Penetrating advantage, as follows:

 

A 1-point Killing Attack does 1 BODY Penetrating

 

You will also find the damage classes chart on p 97, Vol 2, lists 5 points of a 15 point attack power being 1 point of damage. Should you wish to deviate and impose a 1d6 minimum cost, establishing such a variant rule is your prerogative, and may be a partial solution to unreasonable constructs such as these, but we are discussing the rules as written, with abusive powers lacking any GM oversight.

 

Under your house rule, I could, of course, modify the power. Getting back down to 35 real points would be difficult - it would certainly require some added limitations, and I'd probably have to lose the Persistent aspect of the power, and likely its Penetrating effect. It would clearly be VERY DIFFICULT given you seem to have no ability to fit your construct back down to 35 real points or less, right? Let's see...

 

1d6 Severe Mental Transform (Any being into Willing Slave), 15 Base Cost;

Aoe (+1/4), Megascale (+1 1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Cosntant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Penetrating (x2; +1), 75 Active Points;

No Range (-1/2), acts once per turn (-1 1/4) makes it 27 Real Cost

 

Let's up the Megascale to +2 and add +2 of IPE (it''s impercievable and the effects are invisible to the target and to others). That makes it

 

1d6 Severe Mental Transform (Any being into Willing Slave), 15 Base Cost;

Aoe (+1/4), Megascale (+2), IPE (+2), 0 END (+1/2), Constant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Penetrating (x2; +1), 116 Active Points;

No Range (-1/2), acts once per turn (-1 1/4) makes it 42 Real Cost - too much! Oh well. let's drop the Megascale back to +1 1/4 ("only" a 40 km radius) and remove the IPE to leave only the effects invisible, and the power itself Inobvious. That's:

 

1d6 Severe Mental Transform (Any being into Willing Slave), 15 Base Cost;

Aoe (+1/4), Megascale (+1 1/4), IPE (+1 1/2), 0 END (+1/2), Constant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Penetrating (x2; +1), 97 Active Points;

No Range (-1/2), acts once per turn (-1 1/4) makes it 35 Real Cost

 

I guess I know where to spend my first 7 XP if I have to play under your house rules!

[Christopher]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

If I'm summoning the specific fellow' date=' King Conan, he should eventually show up unable to fight, but if I am summoning Generic Experienced Barbarian Warriors with exactly the same statistics, they will always show up in full battle gear ready to fight?[/quote']

You summon generic warriors who all ahve "King of Hyboria" Perk? (or whatever hsi kingdom is). Who all ahve the command over tropps that King Conan has? Who all ahve his reputation among the fellow kings?

 

I deliberately didn't comment on the lack of personal immunity (though I did not think about IPE)' date=' so I could say "Why would I care if I am transformed into my own devoted and willing slave?". Actually, that means I can load up with psych limits - once transformed, my only thought is what's best for me, since I am my own devoted and willing slave. I think I'll take a bunch of really powerful, slow moving Hunteds as well.[/quote']

A Complcaition taht isn't Complicating isn't worth any points.

 

Nope. It is listed with a cost in full dice, just like Killing Attack. A 1 point killing attack can be purchased, as indicated in the Penetrating advantage, as follows:

[...]

Under your house rule, I could, of course, modify the power. Getting back down to 35 real points would be difficult - it would certainly require some added limitations, and I'd probably have to lose the Persistent aspect of the power, and likely its Penetrating effect. It would clearly be VERY DIFFICULT given you seem to have no ability to fit your construct back down to 35 real points or less, right? Let's see...

My "hosue rule"? I talk about RAW.

Killing Attack explicitly allows to buy 1 Pip and 1/2 Die for 5 and 10 respectively. It is not a general rule. - 6E2 241

The adding damage tables are, as their name suggest, for adding DC. So a Haymakered 1d6 Severe Transform could get to 2d6+1 of Effect. Add one DC from soemthing else, and you would get a 2.5d6 Severe Transform.

But this list does not allows you do buy powers in parts "smaller" than what is listed as cost.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

You summon generic warriors who all ahve "King of Hyboria" Perk? (or whatever hsi kingdom is). Who all ahve the command over tropps that King Conan has? Who all ahve his reputation among the fellow kings?

 

Sure. My Summon creates a being absolutely identical to King Conan, conjured from the ether and utterly indistinguishable from the real thing. He need not BE the King of Hyboria" with command over troops and his reputation among the fellow kings. As long as he looks and acts the part, we're good. At least until my duplicates are well known enough that no one believes the real thing or my fakes are real, and then we all lose the perk, I suppose.

 

Expanded Class of Beings would certainly be nice to add to that. Once his credibility's shot, it would be nice to summon a different RepliKing. Something to buy with xp I'll earn while I trash KC's rep with what I've got now, I guess.

 

I certainly don't want to summon the REAL King Conan instead. Sooner or later, he'll show up with his loincloth around his ankles because I Summoned him when he was on the wrong throne. Or he'll be sleeping, injured. unarmed or still badly injured from last time I called him. Or he'll hold a grudge for the last 47 times I Summoned him up. Better to Summon replicas that are 100% identical in all respects, but always fully armed and armored, in the peak of health, with no memory of prior summonings.

 

A Complcaition taht isn't Complicating isn't worth any points.

 

And an Advantage which is not advantageous should similarly carry no cost, right?

 

My "hosue rule"? I talk about RAW.

Killing Attack explicitly allows to buy 1 Pip and 1/2 Die for 5 and 10 respectively. It is not a general rule. - 6E2 241

 

Each 1d6 of Killing Attack costs 15 Character Points (adding a single point of Killing Damage to a KA costs 5 points; adding a half die costs 10 points).

 

Seems that also talks about ADDING, but having a single point -1 DC, all by itself - seems legal from the comments under the Penetrating advantage. I do note none of the example powers have less than 1d6, though. [Hey - look at Swordmaster's Skill - looks like the old Deadly Blow build is still alive and kicking in 6e!]

 

Severe Transforms "cost 15 Character Points per 1d6", just like killing attacks. They follow the same damage adding progression. And they would logically follow the same potential for having less than 1d6 of Transform.

 

Anyone have a Super Powers book or Grimoire handy? Any "less than 1d6" slow transforms in there?

 

Killing Attack's listed cost is "15 Character Points for every 1d6 Killing Attack, either HTH or Ranged (see text)". Transforms is "3 Character Points for every 1d6 Cosmetic Transform; 5 Character Points for every 1d6 Minor Transform; 10 Character Points for every 1d6 Major Transform; 15 Character Points for every 1d6 Severe Transform." I see no indication the price of "15 Character Points for every 1d6" should be interpreted differently between the two powers.

 

I label your restriction "House Rule" absent evidence to the contrary.

[Christopher]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Sure. My Summon creates a being absolutely identical to King Conan' date=' conjured from the ether and utterly indistinguishable from the real thing. He need not BE the King of Hyboria" with command over troops and his reputation among the fellow kings. As long as he looks and acts the part, we're good. At least until my duplicates are well known enough that no one believes the real thing or my fakes are real, and then we all lose the perk, I suppose.[/quote']

You aren't creating "generic warriors", "generic demon" or "generic normal person car". You summon a very specific being with the clear intent of using the perks it gets. Sound like a clear case for specific being for me.

 

Isn't this rule: "Each 1d6 of Killing Attack costs 15 Character Points (adding a single point of Killing Damage to a KA costs 5 points; adding a half die costs 10 points)." actually an example for being unable to bu a single pip or even a half dice of itself?

That you have to start with at least a full dice, but are allowed to add more in smaller packages?

 

I label your restriction "House Rule" absent evidence to the contrary.

Then we shall find that that evidence:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/87769-Buying-less-than-1D6-of-Transform-or-Mind-Blast

[Christopher]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Thinking about "Conan from this universe or Conans from anotehr":

I think the difference is that it does not matters what there are where they come from (just some guy named conan)

It also does not matters what they are to you before you summon them. (just the conans of some alternate universe)

It matters what they are when you have actually summoned them. (people taht look exaclty like King Conan and are loyal to you).

 

He might just be some poor barbarian looking like Conan in his world. When he is summoend to our world, he get's the perk simply for looking like him (or at least some slightly limited version). If he doesn't has the perk, people "instictively"/"mystically" know that this is "not King Conan".

[megaplayboy]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Summon Murder Suspect(s), Specific Being(s), Slavishly Devoted, Limited Tasks, Must inhabit Locale, Arrives Under own power, Only to tell the complete truth regarding the murder in question(-0).

 

Yeah, I can't see how that could possibly be more advantageous than "summon (generic) murder suspects".

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Anyone have a Super Powers book or Grimoire handy? Any "less than 1d6" slow transforms in there?

 

Yes. "Lost His Grip on Reality," page 226 of Champions Powers, is a 1 pip Major Transform.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Summon Murder Suspect(s), Specific Being(s), Slavishly Devoted, Limited Tasks, Must inhabit Locale, Arrives Under own power, Only to tell the complete truth regarding the murder in question(-0).

 

Yeah, I can't see how that could possibly be more advantageous than "summon (generic) murder suspects".

 

Once again, "we can build an abusive construct using the advantage" is not the same as "every use of the advantage is abusive".

 

It makes no difference at all what the power you describe costs. It wrecks the game, so I will exercise GM prerogative to disallow it. I would also disallow "Detect Murderer" and "Clairvoyance, only to watch the murder commit the crime". That doesn't mean Detect and Clairvoyance are underpriced. It means this specific usage is a game wrecker, so it will not be allowed at any point cost.

 

Yes. "Lost His Grip on Reality' date='" page 226 of Champions Powers, is a 1 pip Major Transform.[/quote']

 

Thanks - that would seem to settle the matter, as this is a construct in an official 6e product.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Once again, "we can build an abusive construct using the advantage" is not the same as "every use of the advantage is abusive".

 

It makes no difference at all what the power you describe costs. It wrecks the game, so I will exercise GM prerogative to disallow it. I would also disallow "Detect Murderer" and "Clairvoyance, only to watch the murder commit the crime". That doesn't mean Detect and Clairvoyance are underpriced. It means this specific usage is a game wrecker, so it will not be allowed at any point cost.

 

 

 

Thanks - that would seem to settle the matter, as this is a construct in an official 6e product.

 

It's not so much that it's abusive, as that it is clearly more advantageous than a generic Summon of the same variety. If you want to argue otherwise, I could probably come up with a couple dozen non-abusive examples, given time. Being able to summon a contact or mentor at any time, e.g. (there may be little to no game value to summoning "generic wise person" or "generic agency head", especially since their loyalty to you doesn't necessarily translate to being able to get their agency to give you what you want). Calling upon your sidekick, your trained animal companion, your best friend, etc.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

So there's the issue - being able to summon a specific being is sometimes advantageous, sometimes of equivalent value and sometimes a drawback (eg. a combatant who shows up with last battle's injuries is inferior to getting a new, healthy one every time). Given that, a flat costed advantage is not logical.

 

Put another way, if Summoning a generic being is advantageous, why should it also be less expensive than summoning a specific being?

 

[it's the same question as "Summoning a specific being is disadvantageous, why should it also be more expensive than summoning a generic being? ", but for some reason many Hero gamers are outraged with the posibility someone might get a cost break

 

[chorus]a Limitation that does not imit is worth no points

a Disadvantage that is not disadvantagous is worth no points[/chorus]

 

**ahem**

 

are quite all right if someone is required to vastly overpay for an ability, which is just as unbalanced.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Oh, and any ability which allows the investigation of the mystery to be circumvented in a game intended to include investigation of mysteries most certainly IS abusive!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Thanks - that would seem to settle the matter' date=' as this is a construct in an official 6e product.[/quote']

 

In any case, Steve has now replied to the Rules Question, confirming you can buy less than 1 full d6 of any 15 point per 1d6 power. So the abusive power is book legal, and will never be allowed by any GM paying any attention at all.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

In any case' date=' Steve has now replied to the Rules Question, confirming you can buy less than 1 full d6 of any 15 point per 1d6 power. So the abusive power is book legal, and will never be allowed by any GM paying any attention at all.[/quote']

 

I tend to think a power is abusive when one can get a fairly overwhelming effect for relatively little cost. A 20d6 KA is overwhelming in effect, but it costs 300 points, so you get what you pay for. A 1 pip megascale everyone's my slave transform is also overwhelming in effect, but ludicrously cheap, and therefore abusive. Ditto for 1 pip NND KA, 1 pip supercumulative double-penetrating mind control, 1 pip NND IPE Constant AoE(battlemap), 1 pip accurate transdimensional NND, etc. As a general rule, I like Steve's suggestion regarding stacking of damage-enhancing advantages on a power. If it exceeds +2, it's almost certainly abusive in nature, and if it's between +1 and +2, it's likely a GM judgment call.

[Ice9]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Summon Murder Suspect(s), Specific Being(s), Slavishly Devoted, Limited Tasks, Must inhabit Locale, Arrives Under own power, Only to tell the complete truth regarding the murder in question(-0).

 

Yeah, I can't see how that could possibly be more advantageous than "summon (generic) murder suspects".

I'll say the same thing now that I said earlier, to you, in this thread.

 

As has been mentioned' date=' Specific Being is great [b']if[/b] you are allowed to combine it with Expanded Class / Variable Effect / whatever to have it summon any specific being of the given type.

However, it's arguable whether that's legal - and if it isn't, then Specific Being has as many downsides as benefits.

[Ice9]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

You summon generic warriors who all ahve "King of Hyboria" Perk? (or whatever hsi kingdom is). Who all ahve the command over tropps that King Conan has? Who all ahve his reputation among the fellow kings?

Having those perks increases his points, which means he costs more to summon. Alternately, the GM might not even allow summoning people with those kind of powers (especially for a summon that gives you control over them). Specific Being doesn't really factor into this at all.

 

Now if you have a houserule that normally characters with those abilities are not available for summoning, but with Specific Being then they are, that's fine. It does make the advantage actually advantageous. But - it's a houserule.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Utimately, I would not allow a 1 pip megascale everyone's my slave transform, 1 pip NND KA, 1 pip supercumulative double-penetrating mind control, 1 pip NND IPE Constant AoE(battlemap), 1 pip accurate transdimensional NND, etc. in my games. But I wouldn't allow a 20d6 KA either. That last one's unlikely to slip in under the DC capas anyway, so it's pretty easy to spot.

 

I could see very gradual Transforms and Mind Controls being allowed in some types of games, though. They're noncombat abilities, of course, and the more over the top megascale constructs wouldn't fly.

 

In any case, an overpowered construct gets disallowed. It doesn't mean we need to bump the cost of Megascale, NND, Penetrating, Cumulative or Constant. It means we need to disallow excessively powerful constructs.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Utimately, I would not allow a 1 pip megascale everyone's my slave transform, 1 pip NND KA, 1 pip supercumulative double-penetrating mind control, 1 pip NND IPE Constant AoE(battlemap), 1 pip accurate transdimensional NND, etc. in my games. But I wouldn't allow a 20d6 KA either. That last one's unlikely to slip in under the DC capas anyway, so it's pretty easy to spot.

 

I could see very gradual Transforms and Mind Controls being allowed in some types of games, though. They're noncombat abilities, of course, and the more over the top megascale constructs wouldn't fly.

 

In any case, an overpowered construct gets disallowed. It doesn't mean we need to bump the cost of Megascale, NND, Penetrating, Cumulative or Constant. It means we need to disallow excessively powerful constructs.

 

Yes, that's one approach. I suppose a more anarchic approach would be to price things according to how effective/powerful they actually would be, in game. If something's abusively powerful, then just reprice it to "exceeds campaign caps".

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summon specific being?

 

Yes' date=' that's one approach. I suppose a more anarchic approach would be to price things according to how effective/powerful they actually would be, in game. If something's abusively powerful, then just reprice it to "exceeds campaign caps".[/quote']

 

Or just say "No". Ideally followed with "let's look at the type of character you're trying to create and see what could be used to get that feel without breaking the campaign". If character creation is just the GM saying "no" repeatedly, either the players are going to be a problem, or the GM has set a campaign which is not consistent with what the players want to play. Either way, sounds like a recipe for "no fun". I like to see players able to play the characters they want to play. We harp a lot on saying "no", but looking for ways to say "yes" tends to create a happier campaign.