Barrier

[Beast]

in the new 6e rules for Barrier

if you exceed the def and body of the barrier you make a 2m high x2m wide x2 deep hole in it

what happen if you buy your barrier or shape it so it is say 4m deep?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Barrier

 

there's still 2m of thickness to punch through before there's a hole you can shoot through.

[Beast]

Re: Barrier

 

yes I figured that

I just felt that it was a bit cheesy way of in effect doubling the body you had to punch through if you had configurable or did it with the power skill

 

you could in effect add 2 layers per application when defending a portal or choke point

if you have the points you could really build a fortress or redoubt with twice the normal body

 

there's still 2m of thickness to punch through before there's a hole you can shoot through.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Barrier

 

Yep, you could create very thick walls. Options are good.

[IKerensky]

Re: Barrier

 

I think that this is the very reason why thickness in a barrier cost twice as much than length or heigth...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Barrier

 

42 points: Barrier 8 PD/8 ED, 8 BODY (up to 1m long, 1m tall, and 4m thick)

 

43 points: Barrier 8 PD/8 ED, 16 BODY (up to 1m long, 1m tall, and 1/2m thick)

 

It does work out pretty well: buying more Body (at least in this example - I have not run a range) is very slightly more expensive, but then the Barrier will fit in a smaller space - so the utility balances.

 

Another issue is buying a barrier that is long enough to 'double: a 2m high by 4m barrier could englobe someone or you could stand behind it for double the protection. in that case if you are englobed you are protected from all directions, so again there is a utility balance.

 

I have not used Barrier in game yet (although I've built characters with it) but I'm going to have to work out a few things when I do:

 

Effect of AoE attacks (presumably does damage to each 2x2 section it touches in the AoE?

 

Beam attacks (like bullets) - do they still knock a 2x2 section out? if not, taking down a barrier with bullets, for example, might be nigh impossible - not unrealistic: you don't use an AK47 for demolition - but there may be game balance issues.

 

Can you knock out a bigger section if you want - and how, mechanically?

 

And - nothing to do with this issue - how does a barrier interact with what it is anchored to: if you make a Throbmoanium Barrier (16 PD/16ED/16Body: side effects - a really distracting warm tingling sensation that only gets worse as the barrier is thrashed) but it is resting on sand (0 DEF) - what happens when it is hit and KB would be caused? As barriers have no defined mass, or mass equivalent, the answer is not straightforward.

[IKerensky]

Re: Barrier

 

With only 1m heigth and 1m width your barriers wont be all that much usefull... I would rule they need an activation roll to actually protect against anything... they are also fairly easy to climb around

 

I think we need a common sense rules too, because a 1x1x4 barrier is nothing else than a 1x4x1 barrier when flanked...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Barrier

 

42 points: Barrier 8 PD/8 ED, 8 BODY (up to 1m long, 1m tall, and 4m thick)

 

43 points: Barrier 8 PD/8 ED, 16 BODY (up to 1m long, 1m tall, and 1/2m thick)

 

It does work out pretty well: buying more Body (at least in this example - I have not run a range) is very slightly more expensive, but then the Barrier will fit in a smaller space - so the utility balances.

 

Another 4m thickness is probably cheaper than another 16 BOD, but then you need an 8 meter long space to stuff it in. And moving to its side allows you to blact through a 1 meter thick barrier, as has already been pointed out.

 

Effect of AoE attacks (presumably does damage to each 2x2 section it touches in the AoE?

 

Seems fair - an AoE could leave a larger barrier demolished.

 

Beam attacks (like bullets) - do they still knock a 2x2 section out? if not' date=' taking down a barrier with bullets, for example, might be nigh impossible - not unrealistic: you don't use an AK47 for demolition - but there may be game balance issues.[/quote']

 

Hmmm...the Beam Attack is less useful against barriers. Maybe that's why you get a limitation for Beam Attack... As the barrier acts in all respects like a real object, I'd say beam attack should interact with it like it was a real object.

 

Can you knock out a bigger section if you want - and how' date=' mechanically?[/quote']

 

I'd say this goes back to the AoE question. If you want to knock out a bigger section, you have to hit a wider area. This might be a good use for Spreading - hitting multiple sections of the wall seems no different than hitting multiple targets.

 

And - nothing to do with this issue - how does a barrier interact with what it is anchored to: if you make a Throbmoanium Barrier (16 PD/16ED/16Body: side effects - a really distracting warm tingling sensation that only gets worse as the barrier is thrashed) but it is resting on sand (0 DEF) - what happens when it is hit and KB would be caused? As barriers have no defined mass' date=' or mass equivalent, the answer is not straightforward.[/quote']

 

How do you deal with the same issue if there is no barrier, but rather a building constructed on the sand? Not to say it isn't a valid issue, but it's not unique to the Barrier power.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Barrier

 

Since Barrier states it makes a Real Wall, that acts like a Real Wall , and that that is the intent of the Power to begin with... Beam shoots a very small hole in it. Like the Limitation describes.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Barrier

 

..................

 

How do you deal with the same issue if there is no barrier, but rather a building constructed on the sand? Not to say it isn't a valid issue, but it's not unique to the Barrier power.

 

Well I'd expect a real wall built on sand to have some sort of foundations (which barrier might struggle to emulate) and have real mass, so I could work out the effect of KB from there. Barrier goes a long way to being 'real' but not all the way. Barrier is a construct that is not deeply anchored (I presume it can not force struts down into the ground) and is not necessarily of realistic mass: if it is low mass, for example, not particularly thick for the height and 'anchored' on sand, I'd expect it to be really easy to push over.

[Starlight]

Re: Barrier

 

Well I'd expect a real wall built on sand to have some sort of foundations (which barrier might struggle to emulate) and have real mass' date=' so I could work out the effect of KB from there. Barrier goes a long way to being 'real' but not all the way. Barrier is a construct that is not deeply anchored (I presume it can not force struts down into the ground) and is not necessarily of realistic mass: if it is low mass, for example, not particularly thick for the height and 'anchored' on sand, I'd expect it to be really easy to push over.[/quote']

 

Unless it's a bubble barrier, not anchored in any way, in which case by the rules as written attacks do no knockback to the bubble barrier. (6E1 p172)

 

Am I alone in thinking this is utter nonsense?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Barrier

 

Unless it's a bubble barrier, not anchored in any way, in which case by the rules as written attacks do no knockback to the bubble barrier. (6E1 p172)

 

Am I alone in thinking this is utter nonsense?

 

Well, how else are you going to do those immovable walls of pure force or whatever without bringing back Force Wall?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Barrier

 

Well' date=' how else are you going to do those immovable walls of pure force or whatever without bringing back Force Wall? [/quote']

 

KBR?

 

Thing is that you can still move the force bubble, so it isn't immovable, it just does not take KB - which is inconsistent with the rest of the power description.

 

It is a compromise between balance and logic. I always prefer logic and leaving balance to a STOP sign and GM discretion.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Barrier

 

Unless it's a bubble barrier, not anchored in any way, in which case by the rules as written attacks do no knockback to the bubble barrier. (6E1 p172)

 

Am I alone in thinking this is utter nonsense?

 

It doesn't fit with the rest of the power creating a 'real' wall, does it? I'm thinking of a specific and limited form of telekinesis that allows you to (only) move your own force walls (or hold them in place). How would we build that?

 

TK

0 END

Uncontrolled (ends when barrier destroyed)

Only for own Barriers (-2?)

 

So: 40 STR TK =

60+1-2=40 points.

 

I might create this special form of TK as a talent: 1 point = 1 STR

 

Of course that would allow your to use your barriers offensively to smash into things. Cool.