Eldritch Wizardry VPP

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Regarding Flight with UAA -- if the character can get that out of this Pool to use on enemies' date=' then he can use it on himself or on allies. Just like he could use a regular 10d6 Blast to hit himself or them with if he really wanted.[/quote']

 

He can use the pool within his own self-emposed limitations. Assisting yourself and your allies in getting from Point A to Point B is not an attack. Attacks Only means the pool can only be used for attacks. Therefore, the pool cannot hold powers for the purpose of assisting yourself and your allies in getting from Point A to Point B.

 

I certainly agree that, if the player or the GM will interpret the limitation in a fashion that it is not limiting, then it's not worth any points.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

He can use the pool within his own self-emposed limitations. Assisting yourself and your allies in getting from Point A to Point B is not an attack. Attacks Only means the pool can only be used for attacks. Therefore, the pool cannot hold powers for the purpose of assisting yourself and your allies in getting from Point A to Point B.

 

I certainly agree that, if the player or the GM will interpret the limitation in a fashion that it is not limiting, then it's not worth any points.

 

Well, that's the problem with the book listing "Only Attacks" as an example for a "Slightly Limited Class of Powers" Limitation without then going into any detail, I guess. (Same as with "Only Magic", really...) Personally, if a player suggested taking that sort of pool (maybe as an OAF "all-purpose gun", for example) to me, I'd certainly want to spend a few minutes hashing out just what sort of constraints he or she thinks that would impose on it before deciding on the final Limitation value. (Since attack powers are going to be highly useful in all but the most unusual campaigns, my instinct would be not to go higher than -1/2 without seriously compelling reason by default...but the player might surprise me.)

[Ice9]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

It doesn't even matter if you can use Flight UaA - that's just a tiny fragment of the non-attack powers. Now if you start claiming things like Healing (as an "attack on injury") and Clairvoyance (as an "attack on lack of information"), then maybe you can say you still have "most powers" available.

 

I think the idea that "Only A" + "Not A" = 1 is not completely appropriate.

as characters are adaptable and can perform actions that minimize the limitations, so I generally think that "Only A" + "Not A" should be > 1

by how much is dependent on how much characters can adapt to the limitations.

To an extent, yes. I could see if you had a pair that was -1/2 / -1, maybe; but -1/4 / -1/2 or even -1/4 / -1 is really stretching it. If you accept that "Not A" is a major feature, then I don't think you can also claim that "Only A" is just a minor limitation.

Also, "Only Attacks" on a VPP is not something that characters can "adapt to" - or rather, it will always be significantly limiting. Especially since many "non attacks" occur outside combat, and wouldn't be competing for actions.

[Checkmate]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Having only read the first page, I'll throw my 2 coppers into why I think Only Magic is actually a limitation.

 

Think of Dr. Doom. Say he has a VPP defined as Knowing Exactly What I Need to Defeat You. Given his background he could have Magic Attacks or Technological Attacks.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Having only read the first page, I'll throw my 2 coppers into why I think Only Magic is actually a limitation.

 

Think of Dr. Doom. Say he has a VPP defined as Knowing Exactly What I Need to Defeat You. Given his background he could have Magic Attacks or Technological Attacks.

 

What can technology do that magic can't? So long as that is restrictive enough to merit a -1/4 limitation, then I would allow the limitation.

[Lucius]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

What can technology do that magic can't? So long as that is restrictive enough to merit a -1/4 limitation' date=' then I would allow the limitation.[/quote']

 

 

 

Get around a "Suppress Magick" Field.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Curses! He's using "Suppress Palindromedary Powers!"

[Chimera 12]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Get around a "Suppress Magick" Field.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Curses! He's using "Suppress Palindromedary Powers!"

 

Just as magic in turn gets around "Suppress Technology"...well, unless it's 'magitech', I suppose.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

I think at this point I'm leaning toward dropping the Only Magic Limitation for the base 75 Control Cost, even if it is an officially sanctioned limitation. The handful of powers it would rule out are probably things that wouldn't occur to the character in the first place if I'm playing him correctly.

[Checkmate]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

What can technology do that magic can't? So long as that is restrictive enough to merit a -1/4 limitation' date=' then I would allow the limitation.[/quote']

Depends on the setting and the rules for magic. I would be inclined to say things are are based purely on technology. Talking on a walkie-talkie (or any radio-type device) controlling a car or a computer. I can think of tons of things like that.I've

 

P.S.

VPP's don't have to be limited to SFX. The way I've defined Dr. Doom's VPP there isn't an SFX that wouldn't fit. Only Magic, if nothing else, limits the SFX.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Depends on the setting and the rules for magic. I would be inclined to say things are are based purely on technology. Talking on a walkie-talkie (or any radio-type device)

 

Which is mechanically different from a mystical long-range communication power how?

 

controlling a car or a computer.

 

Mystical powers of telekinesis to operate from afar; conjuring a mystic spirit to inhabit the device.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Which is mechanically different from a mystical long-range communication power how?

 

The crystal ball hurts a lot more than the walkie talkie if you drop it on your toes?

[Checkmate]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Which is mechanically different from a mystical long-range communication power how?

 

 

 

Mystical powers of telekinesis to operate from afar; conjuring a mystic spirit to inhabit the device.

How is telepathy different (I think it's vastly different but YMMV)? As I said, it depends on your worlds rules of magic if in your world magic and tech are the same thing, great no limitation.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

How is telepathy different (I think it's vastly different but YMMV)? As I said' date=' it depends on your worlds rules of magic if in your world magic and tech are the same thing, great no limitation.[/quote']

 

For purposes of Hero, what matters isn't so much whether they are the same thing as whether they can do the same things. And both magic and technology are such broad catch-all categories that they usually can unless the campaign itself puts limits on that.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

How is telepathy different (I think it's vastly different but YMMV)? As I said' date=' it depends on your worlds rules of magic if in your world magic and tech are the same thing, great no limitation.[/quote']

 

Telepathy is very different. As such, a player trying to build along range communication tool, tech based or magic based, is not likely to build it with telepathy. The same mechanics would tend to be used for long distance communication whether magical, tech based or having some other SFX. A pool limited to fire powers (or to nature and elemental magic) would be hard pressed to justify a long range communication power, or Duplication. A pool limited to magic or tech seems able to justify all, or virtually all, abilities. Absent restrictions on what they can do (not just what the SFX of these abilities are), I don't see them as sufficiently limited to justify a point savings.

[Ice9]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Although even then, "themes" are only limiting to the extent the player and DM agree they are. For instance, that "Nature/Elemental Magic" pool could certainly contain long range communication or Duplication, with the right SFX:

* Establish a sympathetic resonance in the air, causing it to vibrate exactly the same in two places - viola, long range (audio) communication.

* Form a seed of yourself, plant it, and fast-grow it, creating a Duplicate.

 

"Technology" as a theme could have limits established fairly easily, just by limiting it to, say, "Fairly Near Future" and not "Sufficiently Advanced". Still not a big limitation, but possibly a -1/4 one.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Eldritch Wizardry VPP

 

Although even then, "themes" are only limiting to the extent the player and DM agree they are. For instance, that "Nature/Elemental Magic" pool could certainly contain long range communication or Duplication, with the right SFX:

* Establish a sympathetic resonance in the air, causing it to vibrate exactly the same in two places - viola, long range (audio) communication.

* Form a seed of yourself, plant it, and fast-grow it, creating a Duplicate.

 

"Technology" as a theme could have limits established fairly easily, just by limiting it to, say, "Fairly Near Future" and not "Sufficiently Advanced". Still not a big limitation, but possibly a -1/4 one.

Well, the same is true for "Magic". Just set it at "Just As In Real Life" and watch the point value plummet towards zero.

 

Really, at this point we are talking campaign-dependent Limitation values and player/GM negotiation. If I have a "Fire Magic" VPP, how much can I get away with? Blasts and Killing Attacks are probably a given, as are defenses against both fire and cold. Can I have Desolidification bought as a flame form? Clairsentience, Immobile IAF Bonfire? Healing via "fanning the spark of life"? Decisions, decisions...