World Without Heros: Earth-739

[Clonus]

First, the premise:

 

Some time traveler with a deranged objection to private citizens enforcing the law has, starting in the 60s, taken action to prevent the origins of superheros in 616. He killed the spider before it bit Peter Parker, he sabotaged Reed Richard's rocket so it blew up on the launch pad, he stole the walking stick out of the cave in Norway, he gave Henry Pym an extra dose of shrink stuff so that the man would keep shrinking into the microverse and so on. He rarely kills his targets, but the Fantastic Four were an exception because Reed Richards's brain would have led him into trouble no matter what.

 

The Rules:

 

1. For the purposes of this exercise, a "superhero" is someone who takes the law into his own hands acting as an amateur policeman. Government law enforcers and military assets are not superheros in the mind of the time traveller. Thus, characters such as Nick Fury, The Black Widow, Guardsman, and Doc Samson are not superheroes.

 

2. Beings who have powers but do not intentionally take the law into their own hands, fighting primarily in self-defense or out of instinct do not count as superheroes. Examples of such beings include The Hulk, Man-Thing, Werewolf By Night, and many different mutants who chose to mind their own business as much as possible.

 

3. The Time Traveler is gone. He will not continue to tinker with this timeline once all of the old heroes are eliminated. The only way PCs could interact with him is by travelling back to the 60s and interfering in his actions there and he won't interfere with the PCs or any NPC heros that developed to fill the vacuum.

 

4. This timeline starts in the 1960s. The heroes and villains of the World War II era still exist in its past. It does not have a sliding timescale, so the Vulture if he was still alive, would be over 110 years old.

 

5. Villains do not count as superheroes unless they switched sides immediately after their debut. Thus, the Vision is a hero. Sandman is not. The Traveler didn't directly eliminate any of them. However if a given villain's origin is contingent on the existence or actions of a hero, when the hero goes so does the villain. Thus Spider-Man brought the Venom symbiont back to Earth. No Spider-Man means no Venom. Mercenaries also do not count as superheroes. Luke Cage, however, is not classed as a mercenary.

 

6. Only Earth is affected by the Time Traveler's operations. The Starjammers may or may not count as superheroes, but it doesn't matter because they didn't operate on Earth. The Warriors Three were safe in Asgard.

 

7. Nothing will lead to the destruction of Earth, or Earth's entire population. Thus, even though the Fantastic Four do not exist, someone (Doctor Doom, say) stopped Galactus from eating the Earth.

 

I think that about covers it.

[Clonus]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

Fantastic Four:

 

Annihilus. Never having encountered the Fantastic Four, Annihilus first encountered humanity when Doctor Doom stole his cosmic control rod to use against Galactus. It now rests in Doctor Doom's castle. Since then he's made repeated attempts to invade Earth and reclaim it but has always been frustrated by the anti-matter problem. Still, he keeps an eye for any human who might venture into the Negative Zone hoping to somehow coerce them into helping him.

 

Molecule Man. His initial rampage of destruction is stopped by the Wizard who captures him and convinces him to help form a team of superheroes.

 

Blastaar. Never encountered Reed Richards, never came to Earth, concentrated on trying to conquer Annihilus's Negative Zone empire.

 

Devos The Devastator. Never encountered Reed Richards, never decided that Earth had the technology to pose a threat to galactic peace.

 

Diablo. Never encountered Ben Grimm, still waiting for a super-strong person to free him from his prison.

 

Doctor Doom. Without Reed Richards as an enemy, Doom was left with his other two ambitions, to free his mother from Mephisto's grasp and to conquer the world. He was in the middle of schemes to do both, only slightly slowed down by events such as Mole Man stealing Latveria's zero point energy power plant when Galactus arrived for the first time to give Doctor Doom a new ambition. Eventually he left Latveria in hands of a clone of himself who is now Earth's most respected hero while the original stole Galactus's power and left into space.

[HawksmoorSD]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

Well no Hank Pym means no Ultron which means no Vision, Jocasta and who ever else grew from that particular tree.

 

In Doom's case I can see him using a twisted logic to say that to save the world from the return of Galactus he needs to run it and make it ready. "All kneel before the steel clad benevolent gauntlet of Doom!"

 

No Spider-man means no "Hey lets reboot to 50 years ago" garbage so that's a win.

[Cygnia]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

You planning on doing this to the DC Earth as well?

[kahuna's bro]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

iron man without other heroes to help encourage him he retirethe iron man persona and is more willing to share his tech with the goverment

danny rand after avenging his family becomes a proessional prizefighter nicknamed iron fist

[Guest steamteck]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

First, the premise:

 

 

 

7. Nothing will lead to the destruction of Earth, or Earth's entire population. Thus, even though the Fantastic Four do not exist, someone (Doctor Doom, say) stopped Galactus from eating the Earth.

 

I think that about covers it.

 

 

I think the Earth's population would have a good probability to be enslaved and massive destruction of property and tons of loss of life would have happened myself. The time traveler was provably a dupe of Kang who now has a good shot at present day Earth with no Avengers.

 

 

I really don't think many villains would flip and become heroes so the villains would have lots of free reign. Conquering banana republics etc.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

 

Doctor Doom. Without Reed Richards as an enemy, Doom was left with his other two ambitions, to free his mother from Mephisto's grasp and to conquer the world. He was in the middle of schemes to do both, only slightly slowed down by events such as Mole Man stealing Latveria's zero point energy power plant when Galactus arrived for the first time to give Doctor Doom a new ambition. Eventually he left Latveria in hands of a clone of himself who is now Earth's most respected hero while the original stole Galactus's power and left into space.

 

OK then ... Backing away slowly. I know my PC s would never be able to handle Doom as a hero . Maybe yours haven't read or seem as much of him or are willing to make the jump Better.

[Clonus]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

OK then ... Backing away slowly. I know my PC s would never be able to handle Doom as a hero . Maybe yours haven't read or seem as much of him or are willing to make the jump Better.

 

Well everyone knows that this is the second Doctor Doom. The first is believed to have died saving humanity from the return of Galactus and is actually going around eating planets while he plots to replace Eternity.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

Well everyone knows that this is the second Doctor Doom. The first is believed to have died saving humanity from the return of Galactus and is actually going around eating planets while he plots to replace Eternity.

 

 

That's not actually bad. Doesn't matter what he's really like compared to what The world "knows". I still think things would be way way worse than traditional marvel ( but probably not worse than Iron age) but that's what the PCs are for to fill those empty shoes. I still like my Kang the conqueror scheme idea, though.

 

Its an intriguing idea. I may make plane in my multiverse campaign similar to this the PCs have to come fix as a one shot adventure.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

I think the Earth's population would have a good probability to be enslaved and massive destruction of property and tons of loss of life would have happened myself. The time traveler was provably a dupe of Kang who now has a good shot at present day Earth with no Avengers.

 

 

I really don't think many villains would flip and become heroes so the villains would have lots of free reign. Conquering banana republics etc.

speaking of no avengers sine the where no avengers to offer him membership he after being reovered by a navy sub captain america returned to military duty as steve rogers entually deing asssigned to miltary intelligence

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

Without Reed Richards, no scarring accident, no Doom as we know him. Without a rival intellect to compete with, he would still be formidable, but would probably not have accomplished nearly as much, and may never have adopted an armored personal. He is the quintessential Fantastic Four villain, without them or Hank Pym or Tony Stark he is just as likely to set out to prove he is a greater genius than the Mad Thinker or the Gremlin. He could wind up being a hero, albeit a very flawed one.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

A tree which also includes the Wasp, a couple of Antmen, Stature, the female villain Yellowjacket, and probably some others I'm missing. No Thor, probably no Absorbing Man or Wrecking Crew.

 

I'm an optimist though, with the time traveller out of the picture, new heroes would appear, and a few villains would step up.

[Clonus]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

Without Reed Richards' date=' no scarring accident, no Doom as we know him. Without a rival intellect to compete with, he would still be formidable, but would probably not have accomplished nearly as much, and may never have adopted an armored personal. He is the quintessential Fantastic Four villain, without them or Hank Pym or Tony Stark he is just as likely to set out to prove he is a greater genius than the Mad Thinker or the Gremlin. He could wind up being a hero, albeit a very flawed one.[/quote']

 

The Time Traveller didn't kill Reed as a baby. He sabotaged the rocket, so Doom was still facially scarred, and still went to Tibet to do the same things. He was upset when Richards died.

[Clonus]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

Fantastic Four Continued:

 

Dragon Man: Dragon Man was an android built at Empire State University but required Diablo to come to life. Since Diablo hasn't been freed, Dragon Man was never animated. His inanimate body is now a museum exhibit mistaken for art.

 

The Wizard: The Wizard became a criminal out of sheer ego. The Fantastic Four were a challenge for him. This Wizard became a crime fighter for the same reason, founding the only team of superheroes in the United States, The Famous Five.

 

Sandman: Sandman had a much more successful career as a criminal until he met his first defeat at the hands of the Green Goblin. This led to him being recruited by Wilson Fisk where he contributed mightily to the crimelord's dominance over New York City until he teamed up with the Famous Five to save the city from destruction. The F5 being short-handed, he was asked to join.

 

Paste Pot Pete/Trapster: Captured by agents of SHIELD during his attempt to sell a missile to to the Russians, SHIELD offered Peter Petruski a commuted sentence in return for his help versus Baron Zemo. He tried to return to crime for a while, but is now retired.

 

Medusa: Recruited by Wizard to be part of the Famous Five.

 

Thundra: Thundra was sent back in time to battle Earth's strongest man. Omitting the Hulk (who she apparently passed over on the grounds that he's only strong part of the time), who would have been the biggest tough guy do you think?

[kahuna's bro]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

sandman?

[Clonus]

Re: World Without Heros: Earth-739

 

Fantastic Four part 3:

 

Constrictor. The original Constrictor was killed after being sent by The Corporation to kill Nick Fury. Since then he's had a couple of successors because old identities never die. Following in the original's footsteps, the current Constrictor is a hitman for hire. That he almost always kills members of organized crime (equipment like his being overkill for noncombatants) means his impact on the public at large is negligible.

 

Deadpool. Deadpool was largely unchanged by the absence of the Fantastic Four or any of the other heroes although he did end up taking a lot more jobs fighting supervillains in his erratic "I'm a parody of 90s heros" way.

 

Taskmaster. With a much smaller hero population, Taskmaster was less oriented toward training criminal henchmen. At the same time, he was noticeably less capable without people like Captain America and Hawkeye to learn from.

 

Brute: Because Reed Richards was already dead when the High Evolutionary created Counter-Earth, it had no Richards-counterpart.

 

Electro: Electro's robbery of J. Jonah Jameson led to Jameson's funding of the "Circuit Breaker" series of superhero robots each one more sophisticated than the last. Jameson's ongoing pursuit of Electro led to several defeats and captures.

 

Llyra: Without Namor's arrival she ruled for years instead of days as Queen of Lemuria. However being an insane usurper, her support was weak, and she was eventually overthrown and killed.

 

Hydro-Man: Created by a fight between Spider-Man and Namor, without them, Hydro-Man never existed. No loss there.

 

Titania: Never comes into existence, because without heros, Secret Wars never happens.

 

Black Panther: The Time Traveller left T'Challa's origin because as a member of the Wakandan government he was acting as a legitimate law enforcer as long as he remained within his country's boundaries, and without the Fantastic Four and the Avengers, he would have no reason to go to the United States. However without their help he was killed fighting Klaw. He was replaced by another member of the Black Panther clan, the first female holder of the title.

 

Klaw: Most of Klaw's operations have been schemes to take over Wakanda, and although he's killed a lot of people he's never really gotten close to that.

 

Absorbing Man: Was created by Loki as a weapon against Thor. No Thor means no need for him.