Odd idea for initiative/action completion

[Narf the Mouse]

Picture this: Two warriors are fighting, one swift and graceful; one strong and lumbering. Suddenly, the lumbering warrior strikes! In a single second, his blade dashes out and cleaves the other in twain!

 

Yep, an action completed in one Phase. We really did that over all the previous Segments since our last Phase, but that doesn't match when we roll the dice or move our miniature (if we have miniatures). So, let's match them:

 

Any action you initiate in one phase, is not completed (no rolls are made, no figures are moved, nothing happens in game effect) until the start of your next phase. In addition, characters with higher DEX can "preempt" the actions of characters with lower DEX's in the same Phase.

 

Next, we shift the Speed chart to be left adjusted, not right adjusted. Everyone starts on or close to Phase 1.

 

Now picture this: The ox-strong warrior swings, his greataxe arcing towards the nimble combatant - Who deftly Blocks, then Counterstrikes!

 

What happened here? In sequence, the nimble fighter preempts their opponent's swing with a Block in the same Phase. Then, they use their next Phase (SPD 4 vs SPD 2) to Counterstrike from that Block.

 

If we change it so that half of a Move Action happens on the initiating character's Phase and half before the start of the same character's next Phase, we introduce some fluidity of motion.

 

We could go a step further and have OCV be made on the Initiating Phase and Damage rolls be made on the Finishing Phase.

 

This house rule would probably necessitate only increasing the cost of SPD and DEX by +50% to 15 and 3 CP and could be implemented entirely within a game group.

[Christopher]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

What exactly can you do with this rule, that abort to block or simple normal blocking and using the aditional two Phases could not archieve just as well?

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

What exactly can you do with this rule' date=' that abort to block or simple normal blocking and using the aditional two Phases could not archieve just as well?[/quote']

Plan tactically based on what other characters are doing, rather than have done.

[Christopher]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

It sounds nice, but I wouldn't reflect a real battle very much. I know some people who know how to fight with a two-handed sword. And believe me, they don't need 3-6 Seconds to place a deadly blow on someone, not even if that one knows how to defend him adequately. When you really want to do this, don't look at the phases.

How about: the effect is archievend in the segment after the phase he acts in, that would still be okay. But in the end, that would still be nothing you could not archieve with a held action (6E2 20) and with aborting to defense (6E2 21), would it be?

 

In battle there are two things: You act or you react. Both in split-seconds. If your skill isn't enough or you react to slow, you get defeated.

In your exaplme (SPD 2 vs. SPD 4 wit higher dex), the SPD 4 guy could always just hold his action (that way he can react to his enemys action), or he could abort to defense and still have his two extra action to attack.

 

Rules for fluid movement: I was told there are already such rules, in the ultimate speedster. It's a system for movement per segment, not by phase/action.

 

Edit: And the first mentoining of it, is in 6E2 27. Just asume the char can only change speed/direction in his phases. Also, there is this Example A.I. Autopilot with SPD 1 (6E2 185) and it is noted: "Its SPD of 1 may seem too slow for safe piloting, but it maintains a Held Action for emergencies."

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

It sounds nice, but I wouldn't reflect a real battle very much. I know some people who know how to fight with a two-handed sword. And believe me, they don't need 3-6 Seconds to place a deadly blow on someone, not even if that one knows how to defend him adequately. When you really want to do this, don't look at the phases.

How about: the effect is archievend in the segment after the phase he acts in, that would still be okay. But in the end, that would still be nothing you could not archieve with a held action (6E2 20) and with aborting to defense (6E2 21), would it be?

 

In battle there are two things: You act or you react. Both in split-seconds. If your skill isn't enough or you react to slow, you get defeated.

In your exaplme (SPD 2 vs. SPD 4 wit higher dex), the SPD 4 guy could always just hold his action (that way he can react to his enemys action), or he could abort to defense and still have his two extra action to attack.

 

Rules for fluid movement: I was told there are already such rules, in the ultimate speedster. It's a system for movement per segment, not by phase/action.

 

Edit: And the first mentoining of it, is in 6E2 27. Just asume the char can only change speed/direction in his phases. Also, there is this Example A.I. Autopilot with SPD 1 (6E2 185) and it is noted: "Its SPD of 1 may seem too slow for safe piloting, but it maintains a Held Action for emergencies."

All good points.

[Christopher]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

After some thinking I remember one gaming system actually using your aproach: Star Wars D6.

The Group that wins initiative, can deceide who must declare their actions first.

Then the other one declares their actions, and can of course "exploit" the knowledge about their enemys actions. If someone failed to declare evasion, you could attack him only with range modifiers. You knew you don't need to take evasion, since you are not attack that round. Or you need to take full evasion, since everyone seem to think you could need some nice, warm energyblasts.

After declaration, actions are resolved in declaration order (first action of group one, first action of group two, second action of group one,...).

 

A really wierd effect had this in a battle between a dozen Stormtroopers and 4 Players, both sides had defense boni. The Stormtroopers were definetly not bad, but due to their bulky armor they had to deceide if they tried to fully evade (only short move, but way harder to hit) or attacked/moved.

When the Player got the choice (4d6 vs. 2d6, meaning: always) and choose to act first, the attacked stormtroopers would fully evade (effectively denying any hits), the other ones would fire or move.

Once the players turned the order, the only choice for the stomtroops was to shoot or run. If they dodged, they hadn't been attacked at all and that way they had at least the chance to do something (archieve better postition or hit someone).

The players on the other hand, had now a lot of non-evading enemys to shoot at (which really increased their odds of actually taking them down).

[Outsider]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

Sounds like a way to give even more advantage to higher DEX/SPD characters.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

Sounds like you're trying to hard-code the benefits of Delaying a Phase for high DEX characters. Probably a lot less effort would be required to teach the players how that existing rule works. I find that many gamers coming from other gaming systems don't understand the idea of delaying. The old West End Games Star Wars d6 initiative was similar with one major difference: The WEG hard-coded delay interrupt was automatic. In HERO, a high DEX character who delays and then attempts to act first after an opponent has declared their action ALWAYS has a chance of failure.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

Sounds like you're trying to hard-code the benefits of Delaying a Phase for high DEX characters. Probably a lot less effort would be required to teach the players how that existing rule works. I find that many gamers coming from other gaming systems don't understand the idea of delaying. The old West End Games Star Wars d6 initiative was similar with one major difference: The WEG hard-coded delay interrupt was automatic. In HERO' date=' a high DEX character who delays and then attempts to act first after an opponent has declared their action ALWAYS has a chance of failure.[/quote']

No; I was trying to spread out an action over a number of segments.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

No; I was trying to spread out an action over a number of segments.

 

Is this in an attempt to get combat to go faster and have a more natural rhythm?

I think a better way to accomplish that would be to remind players that a Turn is only 12 seconds and Phases are already partial-Turns. The HERO Turn is actually the better analogy to 'rounds' from other game systems. A high level 'warrior' from other system getting more attacks/round is essentially more Phases in HERO. Micro-managing half-Phase actions is just going to slow things down even more rather than speed them up.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

Is this in an attempt to get combat to go faster and have a more natural rhythm?

I think a better way to accomplish that would be to remind players that a Turn is only 12 seconds and Phases are already partial-Turns. The HERO Turn is actually the better analogy to 'rounds' from other game systems. A high level 'warrior' from other system getting more attacks/round is essentially more Phases in HERO. Micro-managing half-Phase actions is just going to slow things down even more rather than speed them up.

No; it's in an attempt to match action resolution to in-game events, as far as timing goes.

 

Although that's a good way to explain Phases.

[Naanomi]

Re: Odd idea for initiative/action completion

 

After some thinking I remember one gaming system actually using your aproach: Star Wars D6.

 

Some generations of World of Darkness do this as well, sort of. Initiative is determined, later acting people declare actions, faster acting people declare after to take advantage of this. The slower people can then change their actions when it actually gets to their turn, but suffer an increased difficulty on the roll due to their 'slower reaction' to changing circumstances.