Continuous Entangle and SPD

[MistWing]

Hi there.

 

It was mentioned in an earlier post that I could make a regenerative Entangle by making it Continuous. As I recall, Continuous would cause the Entangle to effectively rebuild itself on each of my phases. My question is, how can I get it to go off every Segment. The obvious solution would be to buy up additional SPD to get a 12 SPD and apply a limitation to it. How much should that limitation be?

 

While on the subject of a Continuous Entangle, here’s another question. If a person does a Find Weakness on the Entangle, does that Find Weakness remain after the ‘Continuous Re-Build’ occurs? I think it would, but I want to make sure

 

Thanks

MistWing SilverTail

[Dust Raven]

I generally rule that a Only To Perform A Specific Non-Attack Action LImitation on SPD is around -2. If it's an Attack Action, it's only -1. In this case, I'd rule that since the maintence of a Continuous/Constant Power doesn't require an attack roll, the Lim would be -2.

 

As for the Find Weakness, I'd say it still applies, since the SFX of the Entangle wouldn't change, nor it's nature. If a completely Entangle was suddenly thrown in, I'd say it resents the Find Weakness ability, but otherwise he keeps what rolls he's already made, and can make more if he hasn't failed one yet.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Continuous Entangle and SPD

 

Originally posted by MistWing

It was mentioned in an earlier post that I could make a regenerative Entangle by making it Continuous. As I recall, Continuous would cause the Entangle to effectively rebuild itself on each of my phases. My question is, how can I get it to go off every Segment. The obvious solution would be to buy up additional SPD to get a 12 SPD and apply a limitation to it. How much should that limitation be?

 

 

Hmm. Essentially what you want is an Entangle that is all-or-nothing. If you don't break out of it then you don't do it any damage. Yes?

 

I'd have thought that continuous Entangle is an odd construct for that. Personally I'd be looking at an advantage on the Entangle that makes it all or nothing. That way you don't have the question of whether the continuous slowly increases the amount of BODY available or how often the entangle goes off etc etc The special effects are that the entangle is continually be ing rebuilt.

 

As to the cost of the advantage, I've no idea. I'll leave that for someone else to speculate on but surely this is a cleaner way.

[Pegasus]

Re: Re: Continuous Entangle and SPD

 

Originally posted by Doc Democracy

Hmm. Essentially what you want is an Entangle that is all-or-nothing. If you don't break out of it then you don't do it any damage. Yes?

 

If all-or-nothing is truly the desired effect, then a high DEF entangle with 1 BODY does that. Very clean, no?

[MistWing]

Actually, a high DEF/1 Body Entangle won't work since a single 'Penetrating' attack will destroy it, as will any attack that bypasses the DEF and does body (NND-Does Body, for example).

 

The advantage of the Continuous is that, if you don't break through it in one Segment, it's completely repaired. That it gets harder to destroy over time is just 'icing on the cake' (although, reasonably, there should be a cap on how strong it gets)

 

MistWing SilverTail

[Pegasus]

Originally posted by MistWing

Actually, a high DEF/1 Body Entangle won't work since a single 'Penetrating' attack will destroy it, as will any attack that bypasses the DEF and does body (NND-Does Body, for example).

 

Hmmm. Well, that didn't occur to me. I have to ask though, how common are these things in your game? I just don't see these in my game very often if at all. Admittedly, our game is classic four-color and there's not a lot of killing attacks period. I do see your point though, regarding the exact effect you're looking for.

[Doc Democracy]

Originally posted by MistWing

The advantage of the Continuous is that, if you don't break through it in one Segment, it's completely repaired. That it gets harder to destroy over time is just 'icing on the cake' (although, reasonably, there should be a cap on how strong it gets)

 

Yeah, but the idea of a High Def/1 Body entangle gives that effect - if you don't do enough damage to get rid of it it stay there. The special effects aren't a a tough shell but one that gives a bit and then rebuilds, the game effects are the same - you are back exactly where you started.

 

Originally posted by MistWing

Actually, a high DEF/1 Body Entangle won't work since a single 'Penetrating' attack will destroy it, as will any attack that bypasses the DEF and does body (NND-Does Body, for example).

 

This depends on special effects I suppose but why shouldn't a single penetrating attack destroy it, or a NND - does BODY.

 

Each of those are particluar attacks that might circumvent the mechanism by which the entangle rebuild itself.

 

I understand that in some circumstances this wouldn't make sense but in others it would be fine - the penetrating attack produces a deep, fatal flaw that cannot be repaired while the NND causes a flaw deep inside that spreads outwards making the whole much easier to break out of. Even by disrupting the mechanism that is normally protected by the entangle.

 

What special effects were you thinking of??

[MistWing]

Crisis: In our game, Killing attacks are so prevalent as to almost be the standard attack (what... blood-thirsty?? Us?? Nah). And Penetrating attacks, while not common, do show up from time to time.

 

 

Doc Democracy: The main problem with the High DEF/1 Body is that the entangle is not suppose to have any weak points. That's the whole idea of my entangle... make it as resistant as possible to everything. With the High DEF/1 Body, there are several classes of attack that could easily destroy it. Even a Flash attack could, so long as it has the 'Does Body' advantage on it. My intent is to try to circumvent these

 

 

Thanks

MistWing SilverTail

[Doc Democracy]

Originally posted by MistWing

Doc Democracy: The main problem with the High DEF/1 Body is that the entangle is not suppose to have any weak points. That's the whole idea of my entangle... make it as resistant as possible to everything. With the High DEF/1 Body, there are several classes of attack that could easily destroy it. Even a Flash attack could, so long as it has the 'Does Body' advantage on it. My intent is to try to circumvent these

 

The eternal quest for the unbeatable power.

 

I think I'd be leary of allowing a does BODY flash to affect the entangle as entangles are either opaque or transparent. If transparent the flash and BODY would pass through with no damage and if opaque the DEF would count. (in my game obviously though I might discuss with the player).

 

Anyway. I think I'd come back to the all or nothing advantage to the entangle then. I think I'd be inclined to make it a +3/4 or +1 advantage as it does provide a substantial advantage to the entangle. This way the DEF+BODY has to be overcome in one segment or the entangle remains intact (or rebuilt as per the special effects).

 

This removes the need for extra speed to have it regenerate every segment or continuous on the power with the need to feed END or make it 0 END and have to set limits for the maximum BODY that might accumulate over time.

 

I guess it all depends on the special effects of the power as to what mechanics make it work most true to conception but I like to keep powers as clean and lean as possible.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Originally posted by MistWing

In our game, Killing attacks are so prevalent as to almost be the standard attack (what... blood-thirsty?? Us?? Nah). And Penetrating attacks, while not common, do show up from time to time.

 

The main problem with the High DEF/1 Body is that the entangle is not suppose to have any weak points. That's the whole idea of my entangle... make it as resistant as possible to everything. With the High DEF/1 Body, there are several classes of attack that could easily destroy it. Even a Flash attack could, so long as it has the 'Does Body' advantage on it. My intent is to try to circumvent these

Have you considered using the "Transparent to Attacks" Advantage on the Entangle? Or perhaps the "Entangle and Target Both Take Damage?" That latter one means that if you have something that can bust them out, you'll hurt them in the process.

 

Alternatively, what a x2 Hardened vs. Penetrating? It gets expensive when used on an Entangle like you're talking about, but then again, something like this should be expensive, seeing as how it'll be almost impossible to break free.

 

Another thought: What about Trigger with Charges on the Entangle? The Trigger condition for setting off another Charge of the Entangle is "When previous Entangle is Broken". That way, if they do manage to break out (or get broken out), *BAMPH!* -- they're Entangled again! If the GM says something about still needing Line-of-Sight or whatever for the next Entangle to go off when the prior one is broken, then make the Entangle an IIF Focus of some kind that can be left on/with the victim, so it'll be right there when the prior one is broken and able to put the next one in place.

 

You might need to add the 1 Hex Area of Effect Advantage as well, to make sure the next Entangle in the sequence gets them, because the GM may not allow the Entangle to use *your* OCV if you're not present. Even at a base 11- against the hex's DCV of 3, the following Entangles should probably hit.