Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

[Doc Quantum]

Jedi youngling fails to get chosen for an apprenticeship. During studies of Republic philosphy, youngling has learned about individual freedom and its importance and wonders why that shouldn't apply to him, too. When told he's being assigned to Galactic Ag Corps, he requests release from the Jedi Order on the grounds that he is a free being not a slave. While the Jedi can spin a web of justifications and guilt for a lifetime of indentured servitude, the youngling rejects it and decides to run away at the earliest opportunity. Various adventures follow.

 

 

I've always wanted to see how far the Jedi's eyes would bug out (at least those for whom that's not a normal condition) in such a situation. The Ag Corp and others always seemed unfair to me. "We decided you're not worth any further Force training but you have to follow our rules for the rest of your life."

 

 

Also, I've been trying to think of a Blackadder-inspired Grey Jedi. I'm thinking he's not so great at TKing great weights but one of the best at fine manipulation(cheating at cards, drugging people's drinks, etc.) I've not yet found anything on the interwebs.

[Sundog]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

I always got the impression that most "failed" Jedi stayed in the Ag corps out of a sense that they were still "serving the galaxy". I seriously doubt the Jedi would force anyone to remain who didn't wish to - particularly given that we know (from Count Dooku and others) that not all Jedi remain in the order.

There's probably a percentage of younglings who just leave. I've been meaning to play a character who had that background - it would create interesting character dynamics with any Jedi in the party, especially if the "ex-Jedi" had decided to continue the training anyway.

[Christopher]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

There always is this problem with the dark side. Having the force kinda gives you the succeptibility to trip. Like they say: Power corrupts, absolute power...

Doesn't means every single not-jedi force wielder is automatic darksider, but the rules of the jedi codex and teachings of the masters are there to protect you from falling to the dark side. Not to be a burden.

 

In the "Knights of the Old Republic" games the jedi where able to erase memories or even "disable" the force in somebody permanently (well, not really permanently since it was the main/player character in both chases).

Kyle Katarn was once able to "give up" the force for himself, but he later regained it using the valley of the jedi.

[Pizza Man]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

Count Duku (Christopher Lee) voluntarily left the Jedi order, and the Jedi did not throw a fit. Only later did they find out he went to the dark side.

 

The Jedi are not all encompassing. Anakin was able to keep a marriage secret from the order, and even Obi Won until after he went to the dark side. that implies major freedom on the part of the jedis.

 

An unschooled Jedi still needs training, as the powers just do not materialize. So a "grey" needs contact with other "grey" jedi, and they would need grueling research to rediscover powers the Jedi already know. Your character would need some sort of support. or at least a few contacts who left at later stages of development.

[Doc Quantum]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

I don't know. While it's explicit that full Knights can voluntarily leave the Jedi Order, it's not so clear as to what happens to the kids. Of course, almost all of them would go with the flow and join whatever service corps they were assigned to. Knowing no other way of life and being taught from infancy to obey the Council's rules, that's a given. As far as I know, a book called The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force is the only place that says the kids can leave rather than join a service corps. But that doesn't really make sense for the more advanced students, who could do a lot of harm with just the skills they have.

 

My thinking is that it works on a sliding scale. The younger they are, the less training they've had and the easier it would be to let them go. If Dooku had not passed all his tests, I have no doubt his aristocratic family would have demanded his return. But what if, say, Obi-wan had grown disenchanted with the Jedi Order's way of service a few months before TPM? His master implied that he had reached the point where only experience could increase his knowledge and understanding. Would the Jedi Council have simply let him go? I tend to doubt it.

 

As for wiping his memories or disconnecting him from the Force(which is a dark side power, imo. yes, I know that planet did it to the Yuuzhan Vong but I would still argue that's not really a light side act just a way to clear up loose ends in the novels), wouldn't that just reinforce his status as property? Some people in the Star Wars Universe routinely flush their droid's memories as soon as it begins to develop a real personality.

 

I'm mostly basing my reasoning on how the Jedi were portrayed in the prequels rather than the novels because the films give a much better insight into Lucas' views on the Star Wars Universe. He did have near-total creative control on the prequels unlike the original trilogy.

 

Based on the film portrayal, I think the advanced students wouldn't be allowed to leave because they have just enough knowledge and power to be dangerous to regular folks. They would become even more dangerous still if they fell in with criminal gangs and began tapping into the dark side. One failed padawan with intuitive flashes about economics could wreak havoc with the galaxy's stock exchanges. While it could possibly be justified, it would still mean that children recruited into the Order are property of the Order as well. And if they were mind-wiped or disconnected prior to leaving or simply mind tricked into accepting their fate, that means the Jedi Order isn't all that good. Individual Jedi might be virtuous, but not so much the organization. And to my thinking, it would certainly fit with Yoda's callous attitude toward Shmi Skywalker.

 

 

 

 

For the Blackadderish Jedi, I had more in mind he learned a lot of his skills from various minor force users and the occasional dark jedi. When the minor leaguers taught him all he could get out of them, he'd just leave. When the dark jedis began ranting villainously about revenge on their enemies and using him as their tool, BlackadderJedi would decide he'd gotten all he could from them, slip away and drop a dime to the cops. And steal what he could from the dark jedi, of course.

[Christopher]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

As for wiping his memories or disconnecting him from the Force(which is a dark side power' date=' imo. yes, I know that planet did it to the Yuuzhan Vong but I would still argue that's not really a light side act just a way to clear up loose ends in the novels), wouldn't that just reinforce his status as property? Some people in the Star Wars Universe routinely flush their droid's memories as soon as it begins to develop a real personality.[/quote']

No idea about this part of the EU, I never read taht far.

 

What I talk about are the "Knights of the Old Republic" games. I doubt it is a darkside power in either variant, but depends on the use and "the source of your strenght".

In game Nr. 1: [sPIOLER]The player charatcer turns out to be Revan, the major bad guy (one of the two Sith general attacking the Republic). The memory wipe was a side effect of the brain scan the local jedi council used. The didn't seem very darkside to me.[/sPIOLER]

 

In game Nr. 2: [sPIOLER]The PC was almost completey disconnected from the force prior to that, after the use of his battle tactic to defeat the Mandalorians. It is not really clear for me if this was due to the acts of the local jedi council or the "shock" he recieved back then. But later when the player has regained his powers they try to seal/take them again, since he is a "wound in the force" (something seriously bad)".

 

 

In both games they choose that path, instead of trying to lock them up (not going to work) or execute them (wich would be a dark side action).So apparently it is not nessesary evil to mindwipe someone or disconnect him from the force. I think as with a Jedi shove, it depends on your intentions.

 

As I understand it Kyle Katarn gave up the force willingly, because he feared falling to the dark side. So apparently you can get out of the "Dark Side Trap" by giving up the force.

 

Based on the film portrayal' date=' I think the advanced students wouldn't be allowed to leave because they have just enough knowledge and power to be dangerous to regular folks. They would become even more dangerous still if they fell in with criminal gangs and began tapping into the dark side. One failed padawan with intuitive flashes about economics could wreak havoc with the galaxy's stock exchanges.[/quote']

I think the Jedi path is clear in that matter: let him go if he is otherwise allowed to go free.

When he does fall to the dark side, then they stop him of course. If not, then he is free to go as every other being in the galaxy. The jedi codex does not allows to imprision them. You just hope the best and if you failed so miserably they turn dark side/abuse their powers, you stop him and try to be better with your next students. Even the above examples in KotoR are for extreme examples and mayor dangers that would have been executed or incarcerated for a lifetime otherwise.

[Christopher]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

For the Blackadderish Jedi' date=' I had more in mind he learned a lot of his skills from various minor force users and the occasional dark jedi. When the minor leaguers taught him all he could get out of them, he'd just leave. When the dark jedis began ranting villainously about revenge on their enemies and using him as their tool, BlackadderJedi would decide he'd gotten all he could from them, slip away and drop a dime to the cops. And steal what he could from the dark jedi, of course.[/quote']

Since even Jedi Masters could become grey, this is quite possible (in kotor 1 there even is a Grey Jedi master as Party member).

 

The problem is: they try to get their doctrine across and only teach you the cool stuff when they think you got it. Also trying to trick a dark jedi is a very dangerous game. They can mindread him after all, even in a way he does not remember. And the jedi can't exactly go around and kill everybody somebody points to "he's a dark jedi/sith". They are only allowed to stop evil in progress (you remember that a important step on anakins journey to the dark side was killing the helpless Count Doku in EP 3).

And only with a real sith Lord like Palpatine, Mace Windu actually considered executing him on the spot (because they had no way to hold him).

[Doc Quantum]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

Hey, while we're on the subject of ex-padawans, it occurs to me that there are probably a lot of interesting stories that could be written about low-powered force-sensitive subculture. These are the ones with measurable talents but not strong enough or too erratic to be recruited into business or government service. What kind of prejudices might they face?

 

Example:A kind-hearted female who, when frightened, generates force lightning just at her skin's surface that can stun and sometimes severly injure any living or mechanical being that happens to be touching her at the time. The Jedi Order would probably consider it a dark side manifestation (fear, the dark side is of) but not consider her a darksider. But what about her neighbors? Their knowledge of the force would be gleaned from holonet entertainment programs and since force lightning is a trademark of Sith...

"If she weighs the same as a duck...she must be made of wood...and therefore...she's a Sith!"

 

 

IIRC, in one of the Hand of Thrawn novels there was an Imperial Remnant bit character inserted to move the plot along. He was analyzing intelligence data with star charts and had a strong feeling about one system. He remembered being a child and watching a parade in the Imperial capital led by Vader. Vader stopped just before passing the boy and walked over to him. He place his hand on his head and advised him to trust his feelings in his future service to the Empire. Vader then resumed his place in the parade. The bit character recommended that his superiors begin their search for the heroes in that star system and wouldn't you know that's where they were.

[Badger]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

No idea about this part of the EU, I never read taht far.

 

What I talk about are the "Knights of the Old Republic" games. I doubt it is a darkside power in either variant, but depends on the use and "the source of your strenght".

In game Nr. 1: [sPIOLER]The player charatcer turns out to be Revan, the major bad guy (one of the two Sith general attacking the Republic). The memory wipe was a side effect of the brain scan the local jedi council used. The didn't seem very darkside to me.[/sPIOLER]

 

In game Nr. 2: [sPIOLER]The PC was almost completey disconnected from the force prior to that, after the use of his battle tactic to defeat the Mandalorians. It is not really clear for me if this was due to the acts of the local jedi council or the "shock" he recieved back then. But later when the player has regained his powers they try to seal/take them again, since he is a "wound in the force" (something seriously bad)".

 

 

In both games they choose that path, instead of trying to lock them up (not going to work) or execute them (wich would be a dark side action).So apparently it is not nessesary evil to mindwipe someone or disconnect him from the force. I think as with a Jedi shove, it depends on your intentions.

 

As I understand it Kyle Katarn gave up the force willingly, because he feared falling to the dark side. So apparently you can get out of the "Dark Side Trap" by giving up the force.

 

 

I think the Jedi path is clear in that matter: let him go if he is otherwise allowed to go free.

When he does fall to the dark side, then they stop him of course. If not, then he is free to go as every other being in the galaxy. The jedi codex does not allows to imprision them. You just hope the best and if you failed so miserably they turn dark side/abuse their powers, you stop him and try to be better with your next students. Even the above examples in KotoR are for extreme examples and mayor dangers that would have been executed or incarcerated for a lifetime otherwise.

 

Regardless of intentions, I'd have to agree the act is evil. After all, how many of the dark jedi were corrupted by doing bad things with good intentions?

[Christopher]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

Regardless of intentions' date=' I'd have to agree the act is evil. After all, how many of the dark jedi were corrupted by doing bad things with good intentions?[/quote']

It was the only way to stop them, short of killing them. And they had to be stopped or peoples deaths were emminent.

Disconnecting somebody with high/extreme Dark Side potential or even a Sith from the force is certainly not a bad act as long as you only do it to counter an emminent danger (like you do when fighting a dark jedi). It's certainly one step up from killing him in a fight.

No going around and midwiping/disconnection every forcewielder who can't recite the entire Jedi Codex without forwarning, of course. That is certainly evil/dark side.

[Badger]

Re: Has anyone seen this Star Wars scenario anywhere?

 

Pragmatically, I agree with that. I just dont know if the Jedi teachings exactly agree. For a Force user, this would probably be the spiritual version of becoming a quadriplegic. Said Dark Jedi may very well consider death more merciful.

 

Still, it seems this is the Star Wars equivalent of all those Disney movies when the villain falls to his death, so the hero want have to kill him. (essentially the workaround from having to make the difficult decision). Just my opinion.