CONVERSION: D&D 3e Monsters to HERO!

[Dr Rotwang!]

Any advice, tips, tricks, etc.? I tried using Mr Killer Shrike's character conversion notes as a springboard, but my 2-hp kobold ended up with 10 BODY, and...that...seemed...wrong.

 

Sure, I can just drop the BODY to, like, 3 or something (kobolds fall apart when subjected to harsh language or exposed to sub-par service at the drive-through). But has anyone any guidelines for doing such with other critters...

 

...or is it me & HERO Designer against the world?

 

You know, like when the Russians invaded in '82?*

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

*NOTE: This may have been made up.

[Lord Liaden]

No specific conversion guidelines, I'm afraid, but I can offer a couple of links which might prove helpful.

 

Michael Surbrook has converted quite a few of the Dungeons and Dragons monsters to HERO System. Here's the specific area of his excellent "Surbrook's Stuff" website where you can find them:

 

http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/adaptionscreatures/creatures.html

 

Will Mistretta has also created packages for various races from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting which might help you out, not to mention guidelines for FR magic:

 

http://www.yamoslair.com/frhero.html

[Hierax]

Previously, I mentioned a few things about converting characters/monsters in this thread:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3486&perpage=50&pagenumber=2

 

In essence, I think that you are better off using "Hit Dice" (HD) instead of "Hit Points" (HP) to convert from xD&D. For example:

 

A Kobold is a 1/2 HD Monster which is a 1/2 d8 or a d4. I'd give the Kobold ~4 BODY.

 

A Goblin is a 1-1 HD Monster, also d8, so it would have ~7 BODY.

 

An Orc is a 1 HD Monster, so it would have ~8 BODY.

 

Sometimes for Monsters I allow them to use the variety of Character Class HD instead of just the flat d8; i.e., a tough Fighter-like monster could be converted as if it had d10 HD, and a wimpy Wizard-like monster could be converted as if it had d4 HD.

 

For Character Class HD, a Zero-Level character is given the same BODY as the HD Type: Ft=10, Cl/Pr=8, Th/Rg=6, Mu/Wi=4; the BODY progresses from there each level of Fighter is +1 BODY (max 30 at 20th level), each level of Cleric is +3/4 (or .8) BODY (max 23 or 24 at 20th level), each level of Thief is +1/2 (or .6) BODY (max 16 or 18 at 20th level), each level of Magic-User is +1/2 (or .4) BODY (max 14 or 12 at 20th level)).

 

When you run these conversion formulae out into tables and compare the results with the old HP method on actual characters, they aren't far off but they allow for a greater range of BODY to better simulate the xD&D source material and carry this granularity over into HERO while keeping the relative toughness of the classes at the same proportion.

 

Also, I feel a lot better having the pay-for-what-you-get aspect of HD match the point system premise of HERO instead of the random rolll-and-see-what-you-get premise of xD&D.

 

IMO, The key is to make sure that the conversions work out so that when they are compared to each other they are internally consistent so that the relative toughness of each monster is preserved.

 

What I do for my own Grey Hero campaign may not work for your campaign (i.e., YMMV), but I've found that using HD instead of HP to convert monsters has made it a lot easier to consistently and logically convert a wider range of monsters and characters.

 

When I get some more free time, I'll try to get this kind of material actually uploaded to my website but, in the meantime, I hope that this alternative perspective helps you out in some way...

[bjbrown]

If I were you, I wouldn't worry much about devising a formula to make "accurate" conversions. I sometimes use the AD&D Monstrous Compendium to give me ideas as to what powers a creature might have, and I try to convert those into Hero powers. Then for STUN and BODY, I just make an approximation based on how long I would want the creature to last vs. the player characters. I think neither hit points nor Hit Dice translate consistently into Hero System, because hit points and Hit Dice stand for vague things in AD&D. Sometimes the Hit Dice are high because the creature actually can take a lot of punishment, or sometimes they are high to represent combat skill in avoiding killing wounds, or to reprsent luck, or some combination of those things.

[Killer Shrike]

Well, what you are missing is a Kobold Package with a negative BODY Adjustment.

 

Also remember that in 3e race means much less than in previous versions as all creatures can be leveled.

[Killer Shrike]

I did up a Kobold Race Package based on their 3e MM entry (pg 123) and the rules for converting a Monster Race into a PC Race in the 3e DMG (pg 22).

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/RacePackageDeals/Humanoids/Kobold.htm

 

Kobolds have normal Character Level, and advance normally as per standard PC Races in the Source. They suffer a -4 to STR and gain a +2 to Dex, have Alertness as a starting Feat, and have a +4 Racial Bonus to Hide and a +2 Racial Bonus to Move Silently. They are Small but dont suffer the Small movement penalty. They have Darkvision 60 feet and Light Sensitivity. Their favored class is Sorceror. Some of them are Clerics and by default worship Kurtulmak (Evil, Law, Luck, Trickery). They are 1/2 HD creatures, so I gave them a -5 BODY Modifier making their effective NCM 15 and the base 5 -- they will go down with 1 decent twacking .

 

Pretty straightforward really; no weird specials or oddball exceptions. Hope this helps.

[Killer Shrike]

Heres a few Templates for using Kobolds as antagonists:

Basic Kobold Skulker

15	Kobold
45	Backbiter (Exclude Stealth & Concealment from Advanced Move Silently
3	Round Speed Off
12	+4 DEX
75	Total

Basic Kobold Ambusher

15	Kobold
54	Light Foot (Exclude Warrior Elite Perk; Chosen Weapon = Javelin or Short Bow or Short Sword (33% chance of either)
4	+2 BODY
2	+2 STR
75	Total

Basic Kobold Adept

15	Kobold
55	Gifted(Medium Group for Reputation is Neighboring Kobold Tribes)
5	+5 INT
75	Total

Basic Kobold Priest of Kurtulmak

15	Kobold
22	Dedicated (Exclude Literacy)
20	Law Domain
18	Trickery Domain (Exclude Trickster Stealth)
75	Total

[Dr Divago]

Originally posted by Hierax

In essence, I think that you are better off using "Hit Dice" (HD) instead of "Hit Points" (HP) to convert from xD&D. For example:

 

A Kobold is a 1/2 HD Monster which is a 1/2 d8 or a d4. I'd give the Kobold ~4 BODY.

 

A Goblin is a 1-1 HD Monster, also d8, so it would have ~7 BODY.

 

An Orc is a 1 HD Monster, so it would have ~8 BODY.

I think are something wrong: "normal" base value for BODY is 10 BODY, right?

and an ORC, bigger and tougher (and more resistent) than an average human, have 8 BODY?

[Dr Divago]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Michael Surbrook has converted quite a few of the Dungeons and Dragons monsters to HERO System. Here's the specific area of his excellent "Surbrook's Stuff" website where you can find them:

WOW! i'll go to see!

http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/adaptionscreatures/creatures.html

Mumble mumble

there something wrong;for example

Anti-Magic Stare: Dispel Magic 20d6, Any Magic Power One At A Time (+1/4), END 7

would be: 1) Persistent (or better Inherent), and dispell ALL magic inthe area AT THE SAME TIME...

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Dr Divago

I think are something wrong: "normal" base value for BODY is 10 BODY, right?

and an ORC, bigger and tougher (and more resistent) than an average human, have 8 BODY?

Actually, in Hierax's defense, normal base BODY (and in fact all Primary Characteristics) is 8 for normal human beings.

 

While 10s are base for PCs and prominent NPCs, the avg folks on the street have 8's.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Dr Divago

WOW! i'll go to see!

 

Mumble mumble

there something wrong;for example

Anti-Magic Stare: Dispel Magic 20d6, Any Magic Power One At A Time (+1/4), END 7

would be: 1) Persistent (or better Inherent), and dispell ALL magic inthe area AT THE SAME TIME...

 

All of these writeups are Mike Surbrook's interpretations of the characters, so of course you should feel free to change what you don't like - that's part of the joy of tinkering with the HERO System! I should point out, though, that making the Anti-Magic Stare Persistent will make it more expensive in Active Points and take up a larger slot in the Multipower, especially since you'd have to buy it to 0 END use before making it Persistent. Making it affect all magic powers at once would be even more expensive. The way that Mike has set up the Multipower allows a large enough Reserve for two slots to be used in the same Phase, e.g. the Anti-Magic Stare and another attack Power. As I say, though, it's easy to change if you want to.

 

Inherent would also add to the cost, and would make these abilities impossible to affect with Dispel, Drain or Suppress. Since most anti-magic spells would be built using those Powers, that may or may not be desireable in some campaigns.

[Hierax]

Allow Monsters to Use "Class" HD instead of just d8 for Conversion Purposes

 

Originally posted by Dr Divago

I think are something wrong: "normal" base value for BODY is 10 BODY, right?

and an ORC, bigger and tougher (and more resistent) than an average human, have 8 BODY?

 

I don't think that it's "wrong", just a different perspective on things.

 

Keep in mind that this is for a standard orc without any consideration to the "class" equivalent.

 

As I mentioned above, "Sometimes for Monsters I allow them to use the variety of Character Class HD instead of just the flat d8; i.e., a tough Fighter-like monster could be converted as if it had d10 HD"

 

Thus, an orc warrior/Fighter,* IMC*, I would have as using d10 for HD and thus would have 10 BODY. An orc Shaman 8 BODY, etc. Then extra levels/HD can be added on top of the base HD (just as with the 3E DND source material being converted).

 

This will make more sense when I can present you with a wide range of write-ups that put things into the proper perspective for my campaign.

 

In the meantime, I hope that helps to clarify what I was trying to get at ...

[Dr Divago]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

I should point out, though, that making the Anti-Magic Stare Persistent will make it more expensive in Active Points and take up a larger slot in the Multipower, especially since you'd have to buy it to 0 END use before making it Persistent. Making it affect all magic powers at once would be even more expensive. The way that Mike has set up the Multipower allows a large enough Reserve for two slots to be used in the same Phase, e.g. the Anti-Magic Stare and another attack Power. As I say, though, it's easy to change if you want to.

I'm not using this beholder for fantasy hero, well, i'm not playing FH (nor Champions, nor Hero in general:() so this is only "pour parler"

 

IMHO the greatest error is making it a multipower; better is to build it like an EC (with limitations "no more than 3 ray in the same arc of fire" and "only frontal arc of fire" for central eye)

this will make beholder VERY HIGH in cost, but Beholder ARE POWERFUL!

 

EYE TYRANTS RULES OVER THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:):):)

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Dr Divago

I'm not using this beholder for fantasy hero, well, i'm not playing FH (nor Champions, nor Hero in general:() so this is only "pour parler"

 

IMHO the greatest error is making it a multipower; better is to build it like an EC (with limitations "no more than 3 ray in the same arc of fire" and "only frontal arc of fire" for central eye)

this will make beholder VERY HIGH in cost, but Beholder ARE POWERFUL!

 

EYE TYRANTS RULES OVER THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:):):)

 

Good points. Although technically, the attack powers in an EC can only be used one per phase (re a question I posed to Steve L on the board). So how would you use them? Nullify the EC/action restriction for beholders, or give them something like a 12-speed (only for eyestalks) maybe?

 

Haven't looked at anything yet, but beholders were the first creature I thought of (since I'm currently reading the FR Underdark book - lots of good stuff for any underground campaign, IMO). Have yet to make them either, but the question of mechanics stuck in my head.

[Dr Divago]

Originally posted by badger3k

Good points. Although technically, the attack powers in an EC can only be used one per phase (re a question I posed to Steve L on the board).

Ah.

in the FREd say that is possible to use all power in a EC... this limitation is only for attack power, right?

 

So how would you use them? Nullify the EC/action restriction for beholders, or give them something like a 12-speed (only for eyestalks) maybe?

Maybe SPD12 "only to eystalk mulitpower (-¼ or -½)" si better solution, but very expensive...

 

And building EC with Autofire?

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Dr Divago

Ah.

in the FREd say that is possible to use all power in a EC... this limitation is only for attack power, right?

 

From what he wrote, all the powers in an EC can be active at a time, but you still can only do one attack power per phase.

 

Maybe SPD12 "only to eystalk mulitpower (-1/4 or -1/2)" si better solution, but very expensive...

 

And building EC with Autofire?

 

Odd coincidence. At work this morning, I thought about buying the whole EC as an autofire, and, "twisting" the rules to allow different powers to be autofired (i.e. I'd buy the whole EC with the autofire advantage, base and powers).

 

As for the expense, I'm not gonna worry about it - they should be tough (the last one I used killed/stoned 2 party members out of 5).

 

Appreciate the response.

[Lupus]

Originally posted by Dr Divago

Ah.

in the FREd say that is possible to use all power in a EC... this limitation is only for attack power, right?

 

 

Maybe SPD12 "only to eystalk mulitpower (-¼ or -½)" si better solution, but very expensive...

 

And building EC with Autofire?

I wonder if you could build all the eyestalks as separate characters. Give 'em mindlink and some physical limitation to reflect the fact that they can only move with the main body. That way, they can all take independent actions, while mind link at a high enough level means they share perceptions. You can also kill eyestalks independently of each other.

[Killer Shrike]

Personally, Ive always thought the Beholder was a retarded concept, in fine company with a host of other retarded D&D concepts for monsters, but there you have it.

 

"Ooooh, a floating eyeball, with more eyeballs on tentacles, and they all shoot fricking death beams and crap. Snugga."

 

 

But, in the interests of being helpful instead of immature and deragotory, you could theoretically build a Beholder as a Vehicle, or as a weird form of duplication merged together siamese twin style, or just buy all their powers outside of a frame work.

 

Also, I think you can MPA slots in DIFFERENT Multipowers if memory serves, so you could even theoretically split their attacks into several MPPs aligned so that they can MPA a slot in each at a time.

[Killer Shrike]

Hmph. Read all the way thru.

 

Lupus has a good idea to w/ the Mind Link bit -- although I would tend to think a limited Duplication would be more efficient.

[Dr Divago]

Originally posted by badger3k

From what he wrote, all the powers in an EC can be active at a time, but you still can only do one attack power per phase.

Ok, is fine

 

Odd coincidence. At work this morning, I thought about buying the whole EC as an autofire, and, "twisting" the rules to allow different powers to be autofired (i.e. I'd buy the whole EC with the autofire advantage, base and powers).

Is what i'm thinking about...

As for the expense, I'm not gonna worry about it - they should be tough (the last one I used killed/stoned 2 party members out of 5).

Yesterday, playing D&D a "little" beholder almost eradicate all party...

Beholder never disappointed me... :)

 

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Personally, Ive always thought the Beholder was a retarded concept, in fine company with a host of other retarded D&D concepts for monsters, but there you have it.

 

"Ooooh, a floating eyeball, with more eyeballs on tentacles, and they all shoot fricking death beams and crap. Snugga."

I like MUCH Eye Tyrant concept, beholder-style monsters and all around it (beholder society, beholder vision of the world and other being, ecc ecc)

And i think that beholder are the only original ideas D&D have for monsters; all other monsters are copied by fantasy book, legends, or simply a "merge" of some other monsters (or, worst, amoeba-like horrid monsters :()

 

But Eye Tyrant, are Unique, and Original.

 

all of this is IMHO, of course...