pinecone Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 I thought one of the major upgrades to 5th was making Change enviro worth points. But now it seems to be Too expensive. My confusion is based right now on one thing...what am I getting for the +1 vari advantage? I get the feeling that with the new adders, the +1 advantage is outdated...heres an example weather controll power... Change Enviro (-1 CV) 5 points Long lasting +5 points Muliple effects +5 points Variable effects +10 points Total caost 25 points REnd to 0 +1/2 Megascale (10 km per hex) +1/2 Total cost 50 points -1 to Char rolls/skills cost 8 each Temp levels cost 6 each so I buy -1 skill/char and 3 temp levels for 76 points so I put it into my multi at a slot cost of 8 (7+1 for exceeding 75) I throw in some lims of Extra time (1 turn) and "Real weather" -1/4 (only modifys 1 step per Turn, only creats effects the GM buys into )...This seems like a playable and not gross power set, the differant Types of wether strike me as special effects...but the rules say I need to buy a +1 advantage to change my special effects within the sub group of "Weather" and I really don't see what value I'm getting that justifys more than a +1/4 Variable special effects.....Opinions? I suppose I could ask the Mighty one , but first I thought I try to get some more perspective..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Okay, I haven't played around much with Change Environment myself, so take my thoughts with a few megatons of salt. My understanding is that there is a difference between Variable Special Effects and Any Weather based change environment. Variable special effects lets you use the exact same power, but with with a different effect each time. My steampunk robot, Mr. Boilerplate has an energy blast built in (his inventor feared other inventors stealing his ideas). He has a Fulminator (lightning bolt gun), High temperature steam blast, a straight up heat ray, and quite possibly some other guns that Janos Bartok doesn't talk about much. They all are built as a 10d6 energy blast. But, since they all do the same thing, just with a different special effect, I don't NEED to buy them seperately. The only advantage is that theres a chance he'll run into an opponent thats Vulnerable to one of them. That's really not much of an advantage, so its only +1/4. The Amazing Nebulopter, also built by Janos Bartok, has a change weather similar to what you describe. Its special effects are changes in the weather. but it doesn't have to have the same thing over and over. It can create fog, reducing visibility. It can coat the ground with ice, reducing dexterity. It can make the city unbearably hot or cold, can generate hurricane force winds, and can even call down fist sized chunks of hail. Much more valuable than the variable special effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Yes I see what your saying...But (you knew that it was comming) I paid points to do all that....-1 cv,-1 Dx rolls and char rolls and -3 Temp levels...Special effect:Freezing rain....or -4 Per rolls...special effect:Fog....I'm only useing stuff I paid for, the special effect is some sort of weather effect, so why does it require a +1 mod on top of the adders? My concern/beleif is that now that we have the new adders the reason for requiring and additional +1 seems to have vanished. In other words I can see paying 76 points for this cool power...but 130+ ...that seems way too expensive for the utility of the power. Unless of cpourse I'm missing something that does in fact make the given power construct gross.......I guess I am of the opinion that for those kind of points I could afford a Variable pool of change enviros and do vastly more, and that leads me to beleive that the power as shown in the examples is over priced... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Well, I'm not completely certain what your problem with the construct is, so I hope you'll clarify if you think I'm missing the point: Let's look at the possibilities of weather effects versus the kind of Special Effects of Powers that you might encounter. Say a building is on fire - being able to summon rain could slow its progress, or even douse it if the GM thinks that's within its parameters. Someone uses a Darkness smokebomb to blind you, but it's dispersed by wind. An ice-wielding elemental opponent is Susceptible to high temperatures, or a fire character to freezing cold. Now let's say you've bought some damaging effects for Change Environment - only 1 point of damage per 5 Char. Points additional cost, but if an opponent is particularly Vulnerable to the Special Effect you're using, that damage can as much as double. If you can vary the sfx of CE to all of the aforementioned weather effects - heat, cold, wind, water - that's quite a bit of versatility. Does that make sense to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted October 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 I guess you are starting to get through my thick hide....But for 150 points, which is about what you end up with (my example costs 76 points,add in a +1 and it would run around 130 to 140) I could buy a 80 point vari-pool and I Know how gross that is.....when the extra adders were not there using a +1 made a fairly good change enviro cost from 40 to 70, and that seemed about right. Having the +1 and needing a +5 and a +10 adder increases cost by 30 making the peviously "reasonable" costing powers now run from 70 to 100 points....I guess I will disagree till I see someone use a weather controll power in play that is as powerfull as a 10D6 AE or an 18D6 energy blast. I just hate to house rule things because it leaves the player with a character that he can't use at a Con or in a differant game. And the cost differance is so huge that there is no easy fix for the character....Thanx for your insights..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted October 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 I've been thinking and I think I have found part of my confusion if not my objection....Change enviro seems to be modeled and modified as a adjustment type power and I am seeing (and has been used in the counter examples) as a special effects power...that does help bring things into focus...I still think the cost is too high but higher cost isa part of several powers in 5th (see shape shift, AID, damage sheid...etc...) so it may be a case of me getting used to it...anyway thanx for the thoughts and input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.