6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain?

[Kraven Kor]

Trying to build a power defined as a combatant using a mixture of skill and magic to make attackers take a penalty to their OCV.

 

Can Change Environment apply a direct penalty to OCV (going with a 'difficult terrain' type penalty), or would one have to use a Drain that is, say, AVAD somehow?

 

6E1 outlines using CE to increase range penalties, but does not mention direct OCV penalties, the way 5E used to IIRC.

 

I thought about 'nesting' the Drain into the CE as a custom adder, priced at the AP of the Drain, but I think with this you would still need the AVAD to make this power not go against Power Defense, etc.

[Christopher]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

CE needs some NND like defense to ignore the effect.

 

So yes, the Drain seems to be thie right thing here. Does the penalty only affect attacks made agaisnt the user? Or only certain attacks made?

[mayapuppies]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

The penalty applies to all enemy combatants within the AOE

[Kraven Kor]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

The penalty applies to all enemy combatants within the AOE

 

Which further complicates using the Drain, as it would be AoE Selective.

 

Trying to build this as simply as possible, so far as number of rolls and general cumbersomeness to gameplay.

[Christopher]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

Which further complicates using the Drain, as it would be AoE Selective.

 

Trying to build this as simply as possible, so far as number of rolls and general cumbersomeness to gameplay.

So you want a fixed amount of Drain vs. Multiple opponents that is not affected by Power Defense.

Then what defense could apply against it? Because isf the answer is none, you are propably just trying to built an abolsute/attack without defense without noticing.

[mayapuppies]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

Tactics or some other appropriate skill would be appropriate to counter it. Something that allows the attackers to sidestep the "zone of control" the character is establishing.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

Here is the current 'working theory':

 

Defensive Stance: Drain OCV 3d6+1, Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Selective (+1/4) (49 Active Points); One Use At A Time (-1), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Skill vs. Skill Roll - DEX or Tactics vs. DEX or Tactics; All Or Nothing; -1), No Range (-1/2)

[Kraven Kor]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

But that would require: One attack roll per target, AND one SvS roll per target.

[Christopher]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

You made a defensive stance, but without jsut increasing OCV. I guess you want to affect enemy AOE attacks (wich would not be affected by increasing DCV).

Have you considered to just aid Defenses/use Combat luck for this?

 

I am going to dig a little in the APG's, what they say about alternate effects for CE...

[Christopher]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

APG I has some new stuff for CE:

Applying Complications to a character or Limitations to one power. taking away the advantages afrom one Power.

Things like lettign it rain to increase succeptibility for Lightning (apply Vulnerability to Electricity) or reducing it's effect (take Armor pircing from his Blast or apply reduced penetration to his HKA).

 

One sure way to hinder attacks is to just block thier targetting senses. Darkness, only to impose Blindess penalties to attackers.

 

HSMA has:

Leap to safety. Extra Dex, only for Dive for Cover.

Ultimate Blocking Technique: Desolidfication with an wide area of attacks that work (anythign he could not reseaonably dodge).

 

That's it. All of he powers always leave an "opening". Block/DCV maneuvers allow hit's with area of effect (as it should be).

Desolid could be used to doge any non-aoe attack (Ultimate Blocking) or all aoe, non-normal attacks - but not both.

All defenses that work against AOE and normal alike only apply to PD/ED. You are still as vulnerable to Drain/Mental Powers.

[phoenix240]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

Perhaps DCV levels UBO. Area of Effect would accomplish the same basic purpose?

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

Hmm. Apparently Change Environment can still be used to 'drain' characteristics, if the example power 'Dr Terror's Fear Aura' (6.1.176) is a legitimate construct, so presumably you can use CE to reduce an opponent's OCV, but the base cost of that would be 25 points before advantages, so it would be cheaper to build a suppression aura.

[Christopher]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

Hmm. Apparently Change Environment can still be used to 'drain' characteristics' date=' if the example power 'Dr Terror's Fear Aura' (6.1.176) is a legitimate construct, so presumably you can use CE to reduce an opponent's OCV, but the base cost of that would be 25 points before advantages, so it would be cheaper to build a suppression aura.[/quote']

That one is built using the penalty to one "Characteristic Roll or Skill Roll" option. It would be easiest to just ask Steve Long if CE can affect OCV, but I doubt it. I think OCV reduction is the exclusive area of Drain.

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

That one is built using the penalty to one "Characteristic Roll or Skill Roll" option. It would be easiest to just ask Steve Long if CE can affect OCV' date=' but I doubt it. I think OCV reduction is the exclusive area of Drain.[/quote']

 

PRE attacks do not involve a roll by the target at all: it is actually -4 to PRE for fear based PRE attacks, which implies that you can have -X to OCV in some situations too. I don't think that it is a good example though, and probably should not be there.

[phoenix240]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

The character Displacer (Champions Master Villains) has a CE that inflicted OCV penalties in the form of Range Modifiers.

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6E: Can Change Environmen apply an OCV penalty, or would that have to be a Drain

 

Good point, and you can still do that: increase penalties for range or other combat modifiers, so presumably you can modify OCV or DCV in certain situations. You could have a field where everything looks further away, or smaller, than it really is.