Alternate Benchmarks

[Dragonfly]

Re: Alternate Benchmarks

 

This could be a problem. SPD has nothing to do with Speedster. It's for characters with good reaction time.

I even think that in most cases, 1 point of SPD is better than 2 points on the CV's. So a high SPD could very well be a function of being a good combatant.

Afaik most book martial Artist even have increase SPD.

 

 

Those things are also the real important stuff for me. When defining the combat capability in need:

Lowest, average and highest DC (not AP of Attack powers, use DC for this).

lowest and highest CV's

Lowest and highest defense (usually 1 times average DC and 2.5-3 times average DC).

 

I usually exclude Standart Maneuvers for this calculation, but include Martial Ars and CSL to a limited degree.

 

Well, a SPD 7 has SOMETHING to do with speesters, as speedsters tend to have good reaction times as a matter of concept. I'm not saying that speesters are the ONLY class that merit high (or higher) speed scores. I was just using them as an example of a character type for which high speed scores generally make sense.

 

The stuff you guys are talking about, like balancing DC's, CV's, Defenses, etc. is of less concern for me, generally speaking. Don't get me wrong - I think it's fine, cool, and in some cases necessary to design characters with an eye for such things, but it's never been necessary in our group, and we've always used benchmarks of the type that I'm proposing here.

 

Different strokes for different folks!

 

Cheers!

 

Dragonfly

[Greywind]

Re: Alternate Benchmarks

 

I've got 3 full-on Speedsters in my world. One is SPD 8. One is 10. And the last one is 12.

[massey]

Re: Alternate Benchmarks

 

Well' date=' a SPD 7 has SOMETHING to do with speesters, as speedsters tend to have good reaction times as a matter of concept. I'm not saying that speesters are the ONLY class that merit high (or higher) speed scores. I was just using them as an example of a character type for which high speed scores [i']generally [/i]make sense.

 

The stuff you guys are talking about, like balancing DC's, CV's, Defenses, etc. is of less concern for me, generally speaking. Don't get me wrong - I think it's fine, cool, and in some cases necessary to design characters with an eye for such things, but it's never been necessary in our group, and we've always used benchmarks of the type that I'm proposing here.

 

Different strokes for different folks!

 

Cheers!

 

Dragonfly

 

Speedsters don't have to have high speeds. The trend in Champions is for them to be high, but it's not necessary. You could be a Speedster with Spd 3 or 4. It just depends on how you want to build the character.

 

Speed not only represents reaction times, it represents importance. Think of a comic book. In a battle, how many panels does a given character appear in where they get to do something? That's Speed. Spider-Man is always there, jumping around, bouncing off of walls, dodging, kicking people in the face, talking trash. High Speed. The Thing is always there in a brawl, trading punches with the Invader From Outer Space. Pretty high Speed. Mr. Fantastic is in the background, tinkering with some device before he appears at the end and uses his Cosmic Dealyflotchy to defeat the Invader. Low Speed. Where is Quicksilver? Where is the Flash? You usually see some blur of costume-related color in the background, zigzagging all over the place. But actually on panel, doing something? Not so much. They don't necessarily have a high Speed.

 

That's not to say a 10 Spd character is wrong. I have a Speedster with a 10 Spd. It does seem to be the Champions standard, superspeed equals high Spd. But if you're looking for alternative benchmarks, it doesn't have to be that way. I think you could give speedsters huge movement rates, a lot of powers like Invisibility and Desolid, some pretty big attack powers, and just leave them at campaign average Spd and they'd be just fine.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Alternate Benchmarks

 

Benchmarks are only important within a specific game world setting. They don't have to match published material unless you plan on relying heavily on that material without modifying it yourself.

 

Re: SPD

I've posted starting PC versions of the JLA (see links in SIG below) with 4 SPD's across the board except for Flash who has a 6 SPD. They will all seem low if compared to published characters but they are balanced to each other.

 

Re: STUN & Defenses

I've never been a big fan of caps on stats but it has always struck me as a little funny that folks get up in arms about allowing defenses above a certain level (like 2.5 * average DC) but don't say anything about high STUN. I think it's important to look at STUN, CON and Defenses all together in terms of how many average hits a character is capable of withstanding and be flexible when looking at active defenses (that require an action or cost END) vs. passive (always on defenses).

[Dragonfly]

Re: Alternate Benchmarks

 

I've got 3 full-on Speedsters in my world. One is SPD 8. One is 10. And the last one is 12.

 

That sounds about right to me! :-)

 

Cheers!

 

Dragonfly

[Dragonfly]

Re: Alternate Benchmarks

 

Speedsters don't have to have high speeds. The trend in Champions is for them to be high, but it's not necessary. You could be a Speedster with Spd 3 or 4. It just depends on how you want to build the character.

 

Speed not only represents reaction times, it represents importance. Think of a comic book. In a battle, how many panels does a given character appear in where they get to do something? That's Speed. Spider-Man is always there, jumping around, bouncing off of walls, dodging, kicking people in the face, talking trash. High Speed. The Thing is always there in a brawl, trading punches with the Invader From Outer Space. Pretty high Speed. Mr. Fantastic is in the background, tinkering with some device before he appears at the end and uses his Cosmic Dealyflotchy to defeat the Invader. Low Speed. Where is Quicksilver? Where is the Flash? You usually see some blur of costume-related color in the background, zigzagging all over the place. But actually on panel, doing something? Not so much. They don't necessarily have a high Speed.

 

That's not to say a 10 Spd character is wrong. I have a Speedster with a 10 Spd. It does seem to be the Champions standard, superspeed equals high Spd. But if you're looking for alternative benchmarks, it doesn't have to be that way. I think you could give speedsters huge movement rates, a lot of powers like Invisibility and Desolid, some pretty big attack powers, and just leave them at campaign average Spd and they'd be just fine.

 

Oh, I know they would be. Most games I play these days, like SUPERS! and BASH! have NO speed stat. In these games, most characters have one panel to act. There are a few exceptions, like Super Speed, which grant an extra panel here or there, but there isn't a SPD stat that places superheroes too far off from either each other OR from the mooks in the game. I just don't like playing Champions like that.

 

As for the comment about importance - that's tricky. Are we going to say that my SPD 6 Martial Artist is a more important character than my SPD 4 Brick? That's pretty stiff for a roleplaying game. If you wanted to emulate SPD as it seems to work in the comics, you'd have to modify a character's speed per story or issue, as their rate of appearance per comic varies depending on whether their subplots are being explored that issue or not. That's a pretty cool idea, but Champions isn't that kind of game. I guess you could do it, though. Characters get a free +1 or +2 SPD for an adventure if it features their story. Interesting!

 

As to speedsters having slow speeds - yeah, some individual character concepts would call for that. A teenage speedster who is still in his adolescent fog might be able to run at the speed of sound, but be kind of slow to process information. That might qualify him for a SPD 4 or 5 instead of 6 or 7. The particulars will always getcha, and I'm not suggesting that there be a standard SPD for speedsters. IN GENERAL, however, Speedsters and Martial Artists probably merit a high SPD stat MORE OFTEN than bricks or blasters. That's not particularly controversial, actually. Most Champions products have adhered to that logic over the years. For my particular setting I'm more interested in keeping the relative difference between archetypes that already exists, but taking them all down a notch or two so they are closer (not equal with) mundane people in the world.

 

Cheers!

 

Dragonfly

[Greywind]

Re: Alternate Benchmarks

 

That sounds about right to me! :-)

 

Cheers!

 

Dragonfly

The 8 is a hero. The other two are villains.

 

The 12 tends to burn out in combat rather quickly, which was intentional.

 

The SPD 10 is a mid-grade Brick with enough END to go about 3 turns. He's often the first bad guy players will meet.