Qabbalah and Qlippoth?

[FenrisUlf]

If I may ask:

 

I've noticed (more in Champions than Fantasy Hero, actually) several references to both qabbalah and the qlippoth. Now, I have read references to both of these before, but does anyone know of any good books or links that can give a better explanation of them?

 

And, out of curiosity, just why did the developers use them? It's not like I'm bothered, mind, but these are kind of unusual choices. How many gamers actually know all that much about Jewish mysticism?

[Galadorn]

Re: Qabbalah and Qlippoth?

 

Originally posted by FenrisUlf

If I may ask:

 

I've noticed (more in Champions than Fantasy Hero, actually) several references to both qabbalah and the qlippoth. Now, I have read references to both of these before, but does anyone know of any good books or links that can give a better explanation of them?

 

And, out of curiosity, just why did the developers use them? It's not like I'm bothered, mind, but these are kind of unusual choices. How many gamers actually know all that much about Jewish mysticism?

 

Qabalah, Quabalah, or Kabalah, is a Jewish mystical method of spiritual growth, by which a soul ascends on a path of enlightment, development and growth towards the Divine being (Yah-weh). It was developed by Jewish Mystical writers before the first century A.D., at least in rudimentary form.

 

Kabalah has been condemned by Jewish teachers to our present day, it has also been condemned by the Catholic Church, owing to it's denial of the sovereignty of God. In Judeo-Christian mysticism, one achieves holiness and development based on the will and permittance of God; without God, there is no holiness. So the tendency of the Kabalah is to guarantee aquiring holiness, as long as you follow it's steps and methods. This is counter to obedience and abandonement to the Divine Will, including Divine determination of one's eternal destiny and growth in holiness.

 

Madonna is now a Cabalist, as practioners of the Kabalah are called. If you read comments by most rabbis, you will see almost all condemn Cabalistic practice. So if you are a Cabalist, your belief would be condemned as anathema in the Jewish Faith, by and large, and you will be called a material heretic in the Catholic Church. Also many Protestant Denominations and the Eastern Orthodox Church have majority consensus that the Cabalistic doctrine is in error.

 

O.k., hows that for an info-dump? LOL.

 

P.S. For a good book on the Kabalah, a series called Christian Classics use to have a pretty thorough work called "The Quabalah," I believe. It might also be called "The Kabalah." This is a pretty detailed and scholarly exposition on the Kabalah, but from a Christian perspective. Try Amazon.com.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, the game-continuum references are probably due to the influence of The Ultimate Super Mage sourcebook by Dean Shomshak. Dean weaves a detailed multiversal cosmology out of the Qabbalah, the metaphysical poems of William Blake, other elements of mythology and occultism, and various comic-book and fictional conventions, including previous editions of the Champions Universe. Steve Long has stated in the past that he really likes Dean's concepts and has plainly adopted many of them wholesale. While I found parts of the book a bit dry, much of it is fascinating and includes plenty of useful gaming stuff. (And it's still in the Online Store.)

 

The USM was geared more toward comic-book "super magic," but elements of it could certainly apply to a FH game. Dean is scheduled to write The Ultimate Mystic next year IIRC, which will apply to magic more generally across genres.

 

According to Dean, the Qabbalah had a profound influence on Western mainstream occultism, so if you want to discuss "real" magic in any way you have to refer to that. I'm afraid I don't know of any good introductory texts specifically on the Qabbalah; USM lists several sources on occultism but it's unclear how much of that they would include. I could cite some of them if you'd like.

[Steve Long]

And, out of curiosity, just why did the developers use them? It's not like I'm bothered, mind, but these are kind of unusual choices. How many gamers actually know all that much about Jewish mysticism?

 

I can't say specifically why Dean chose to use them in the first place. I assume he liked them, considered them intellectually interesting, or thought they would prove useful/fun in a gaming context.

 

I can, however, speak to my own motivations. I chose to adopt much of what he created and carried it forward into the 5E settings because I think it's Cool. The fact that it's unusual and hasn't been done to death in gaming products before only makes it a more interesting choice to me.

[Vondy]

I am an Orthodox Jew who has studied the Talmud, Chassidut, and an assortment of Kabbalistic texts (Zohar, Sefer Yetzirah, Sefer Raziel, Eitz Chaim, etx). There are several forms of kabbalah, and several schools of kabbalistic thought.

 

The best known kabbalistic texts are products of the middle ages, and are commonly accepted in the modern day without much turmoil (a process which began with a footnote in Yosef Caro's Kessef Mishnah, which preceded his authorship of the Shulchan Aruch (circa 1,500), the principle code of law used by Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews today). The shulchan aruch is rife with customs from the Zohar.

 

There are two communities today that reject the kabbalistic works of the middle ages, but not those of the Mishnaic, Talmudic and Goanic Eras (100-1200). Those are the Temani (Yemenite) and Portuguese Sephardic communities, who are very true to Talmudic practice and thought. The most vocal in their opposition to practices based on the kabbalah are a group called the Moreh Nevuchim (enlightened teachers).

 

The leaders of the Temani Jews who are the core of the Moreh Nevuchim were forced (and I do mean forced) to sign papers stating they would not publically speak out against practices based on the Zohar when the Temanim were air-lifted to Israel in order to avoid having non-Temani rabbis forced on their community in their stead. Since their community does not use the same code of law as most Israeli rabbis they had little choice. It is only now, a generation later, that their sons and grandsons feel confident enough to challenge the Rabbinut on it.

 

I myself am not Moreh Nevuchim, but I know a few (and learn with one every wednesday) and they have some very salient points as to the authenticity and "kashrut" of midieval kabbalistic texts (e.g. the zohar, etc). As stated above, the works of the middle ages are quite serparate in style, content, and authenticity from those of earlier eras, which are perfectly kosher (and have never been condemned).

 

Galadron, could you specify a source for your assertion that Jewish theology requires "permittance" from God to attain kedushah (holiness). That is markedly more christian than Jewish in tone and flavor. Your use of the term "Yahweh" indicates you probably are probably projecting christian assumptions onto authentic Jewish thought.

 

As to the Hero version of the four worlds, the sefirot, kelipot and whatnot. Its all wrong (and makes several presumptions that even the kabbalists of the middle ages would consider anathema). Fixing it isn't in the company's interests, though I would recommend Steve to put a disclaimer on it: "while the kabbalistic terms used herein are holdovers from mystic masters we sincerely doubt their application is true to the faith that produced them," or some such).

 

Steve, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have (though authentic kabbalah probably isn't deeply useful in game terms). Nevertheless, for a very good explanation of the theory behind practical kabbalah you could look at the bilingual version of Derech Hashem by Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzatto, Circa 1620 (translated by Rabbi Ariyah Kaplan). It is an exceptional reference for Jewish thought in terms of angels, practical kabbalah, prophecy and whatnot (though I would bear in mind the chapters on the purpose of man and providence are unique to one school of jewish thought, and are not universal to Judaism as a whole, which has no central dogma).

 

As for introductory texts: there really aren't any in English, and no one who really understands kabbalah learns without a teacher, or a very thick stack of commentaries - all in Aramaic and Hebrew. The best source would probably be a bilingual version of the Tanya produced by Kehot publishing in New York. The one I'm thinking of has Rabbi Nissan Mendel's "mystical concepts in chassidut" in the back, which is excellent. And is as good as you'll get in english. Most books you would find in a regular bookstore are bunk. Another book is Lessons in Zohar by Rabbi Moshe Miller (who is a "professor" at the yeshiva I attended).

 

And Modonna is patently not a kabbalist, nor is any other product of the Kabbalah Center in LA or their ilk. She's an idiot.

 

[Steve Long]

Steve, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have (though authentic kabbalah probably isn't deeply useful in game terms).

 

Thanx, David! It's always helpful to have info from someone well-versed in such an esoteric subject.

 

At this point I think I'm content with what little Dean has done with kabbalistic terms and concepts; I agree with you that the "real stuff" probably wouldn't do much for gaming. But if I need more information, I'll definitely drop you a line.

[Steve Long]

FY everyone's I, there is a Kabbalah supplement for the game Ars Magica. It's written by David Honigsberg who is, IIRC, a rabbi. That might serve as a good introduction to the subject for gaming purposes.

[FenrisUlf]

Originally posted by D-Man

I am an Orthodox Jew who has studied the Talmud, Chassidut, and an assortment of Kabbalistic texts (Zohar, Sefer Yetzirah, Sefer Raziel, Eitz Chaim, etx). There are several forms of kabbalah, and several schools of kabbalistic thought.

 

Say, D-Man, I'm on a fan list for Tim Powers. He signs on himself from time to time and I believe he's looking for someone to speak to concerning Judaism and Jewish mysticism. You interested?

 

And Modonna is patently not a kabbalist, nor is any other product of the Kabbalah Center in LA or their ilk. She's an idiot.

 

'Kabbalah Center'? First I ever heard of it. What, is this another dippy New Age starduster attenmpt at hijacking someone else's religion or what?

[Vondy]

Tim Powers? Can you give me a link.

 

The kabbalah center was founded by a "quasi-orthodox" rabbi in LA about 15 years ago. It initially catered to wealthy Jews as an alternative to other new age movements, and to be frank, has never actually taught authentic kabbalah. In the Jewish world kabbalah is generally reserved for adults, usually married with children, who are well grounded in Jewish fundamentals. In many communities one must be at least 40 years of age to study kabbalh (and most don't). It can't be properly understood without those fundamentals, and can't be applied without correspondent Jewish practice. About ten years ago the kabbalah center found itself with 1) more gentile than Jewish members, and 2) a large number of show-biz people. It has since abandoned the idea that it was actually intended to give Jews a quasi-kosher alternative to the new age movement and become a hollywood cult movement that has very little to do with kabbalah as it is understood in authentic Jewish circles.

 

As for the ars magica supplement. I took a look at it a while back. I will comment in terms of scholarship, and in terms of gamership - in reverse order:

 

Gamership: its a fairly good simulation of "practical kabbalah" for gaming purposes (though its fairly cursory in doing so).

 

Scholarship: don't try to learn kabbalah from it. it will introduce you to a few kabbalistic concepts, but those concepts have been skewed for game application, and some of the core principles (the gas that makes it go) have been edited out or watered down to the extreme.

[FenrisUlf]

Tim Powers group

 

Originally posted by D-Man

Tim Powers? Can you give me a link.

 

Okay, here it is -- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/timpowers

 

That should do it.

 

The kabbalah center was founded by a "quasi-orthodox" rabbi in LA about 15 years ago. It initially catered to wealthy Jews as an alternative to other new age movements, and to be frank, has never actually taught authentic kabbalah. In the Jewish world kabbalah is generally reserved for adults, usually married with children, who are well grounded in Jewish fundamentals. In many communities one must be at least 40 years of age to study kabbalh (and most don't). It can't be properly understood without those fundamentals, and can't be applied without correspondent Jewish practice. About ten years ago the kabbalah center found itself with 1) more gentile than Jewish members, and 2) a large number of show-biz people. It has since abandoned the idea that it was actually intended to give Jews a quasi-kosher alternative to the new age movement and become a hollywood cult movement that has very little to do with kabbalah as it is understood in authentic Jewish circles.

 

Myself, the one weird New Age/kabbalah meeting I reember was this book about 'Runic Kabbalah' -- might have picked it up for sheer weirdness value except that it had this really ugly undertone about how evil freedom-hating Jews 'stole' kabbalah from the noble Nordics...

 

And now that we've discussed Kaballah, whta about the qlippoth? The most I've ever heard about them is that they're the 'shells of the prior creation'; basically some sort of spiritual/demonic garbage left over from before the Flood. Anyone know anything? The last I looked for them online, I found several links to Satanist sites and not much else.

[Vondy]

Re: Tim Powers group

 

Originally posted by FenrisUlf

Originally posted by D-Man

And now that we've discussed Kaballah, whta about the qlippoth? The most I've ever heard about them is that they're the 'shells of the prior creation'; basically some sort of spiritual/demonic garbage left over from before the Flood. Anyone know anything? The last I looked for them online, I found several links to Satanist sites and not much else.

 

Mail me at home and I'll try to give you more information - I don't want to take up steves bandwidth on the gaming boards for it.

 

davidqueenann@comcast.net