Advice for new campaign using home-brewed setting

[Portland Barbie]

I've been a fan of HERO since I discovered it back in '02, and tbh, it has become my system of choice. Unfortunately, the players I have had in that time (and I've been fortunate enough to have the same core group this whole time) are the kind who want the game system spoon-fed to them, and aren't willing to take the time to read a rulebook other than a cursory glance, which isn't conducive to building a personalized, in-depth character using HERO (which quite frankly, is the whole reason why I came to prefer the system in the first place.

 

However, I feel that once they see the benefits of HERO, they will be immediate converts. And as such I've decided to build a wholly new setting, and wanted it to stand out against the typical D&D-styled worlds my players have become used to. So I went out and got my hands on the new 6th edition books, and have been slowly compiling notes on the setting.

 

After defining what type of game I wanted to run (it's a Swords & Sorcery styled game, where the characters are pitted more against the world itself than any form of "epic" villain), I've begun to work on detailing the magic system, since this is most likely the most difficult aspect of world design, at least if you want a fully functioning one that keeps it's "mystical" feeling while remaining believable, especially in a low magic setting such as the one I'm envisioning . . .

 

I've included the existing notes I have on the magic system I'm building, and would welcome any advice, suggestions, ideas, etc. you guys may have.

 

 

• There is no distinction between "arcane" and "divine" magic. The gods are not active enough in the setting to grant magic to their followers. There is still healing magics, but they are simply spells that have been created by their casters.
  
• The magic system is based off a preserver/defiler concept. Each region (I'm looking at making it based off terrain/map features, i.e. forest, plains, settlement, etc.,) has it's own END Reserve used to pay for the END costs of the spells. In cases where the END cost is higher than the area's END Reserve, the caster may draw energy from living creatures in the area (I'm looking at this as a set number of dice depending on the "vitality" of the area, with an additional Drain STUN AoE effect on those characters in the area, exchanged on a point-for-point basis for END (a total of 5 on the dice gives you 5 END).
  
• There are no established schools or colleges for magic; each spell caster is self-taught using tomes and scrolls left behind from ancient civilizations.
  
• There are no "formulaic" spells, as there are in D&D, the tomes give information on how to manipulate the mystical energies to create your own effects, not "make this gesture and say these words while holding these items to create this effect."
  
• The effects a caster may create are broken down into various "schools". Each school is it's own skill, representing the knowledge the caster has in manipulating/creating those type of effects.
  
• All spells must take the Requires a Roll (skill depending on the "school" of the spell); spells built with Powers that do not cost END must take the Cost END (-1/2); in addition they must contain at least one of the following Limitations: Focus, Gestures, or Incantations. This is simply personal taste, and I think creates the "spellcasting" flavor most fantasy players are used to.
  
• Spells cannot have an active cost above the corresponding Skill -8 times 5. This is an attempt at balancing the power of the spells. The spell casting packages I plan to have will have a few skills at 8-, representing the character's familiarity in those "schools" and would limit the character to 5 Active Points if they do not choose to pursue certain schools.
  
• I'm working on an abstract spell level/strength of caster system, solely for RP purposes. I'm basing it on 8 levels, or "circles of arcana", with an incremental increase in the Active Points required to gain access to the next circle, combined with the number of spells a character knows in a given school, with 5 ranks (Apprentice, Initiate, Adept, Theurge, and Mystic) also with an incremental increase in requirements to qualify for the next rank. This is mainly for RP purposes: NPCs claiming to be a "Mystic of the 2nd Circle of Evocation" type stuff.
  

 

Again, lemme know anything you would add, your opinions/views/thoughts, who you think it would work in play (this will be my first HERO campaign, so I don't have the troubleshooting knowledge some of you have), etc.

 

Thanks

 

P.S. If there is enough active discussion, I will continue to post other aspects of the world as I detail them, again for your guys' feedback and suggestions.

[gojira]

Re: Advice for new campaign using home-brewed setting

 

Sounds interesting. I think you are off to a great start. There's a bunch of other threads in this forum on "how do I fix this problem;" reading through those might give you some clues as to how to proceed.

 

You also might want to consider picking up Fantasy Hero too, I believe that is out for 6e. You also might want to pick up a fantasy product from 5th, like The Valdorian Age or Tuala Morn. The Valdorian Age is a swords and sorcery campaign; it might be helpful to you setting up your own world. Tuala Morn is a Celtic themed game. It's main spell casters are Druids (there are also wizards, witches, sorcerers and necromancers). It's got a really neat spell casting system, and there's a lot of ideas to be gleaned about how to set up a campaign just by reading through it.

 

There's also Narosia, which just had a successful kickstarter. That also might be something to serve as an example to set up a game world. It's not out yet so it's hard for me to say for sure, but the kickstarter updates made it seem really complete and interesting.

 

I would never want to discourage you from making your own world with Hero. However, for a first time player and GM it can be kind of daunting. You may want to pick up one of the above campaigns just to have something to fool around with while your own world is in progress. "I am making the greatest RPG game world ever. However, until it's done we will play this." and toss the book at them. This gives you a chance to see how Hero really functions (i.e., how well it survives contact with your players) and should allow you to make some practical considerations and adjustments to your own world.

 

Some thought in no real order.

 

1. Be sure to limit some powers carefully. Combat Luck is a big problem in fantasy worlds. It's pretty cheap to buy, and everyone can just buy it up to the max, making any kind of armor moot. A good variation is to make Combat Luck take an additional limitation: Only while not wearing armor (or only while wearing light armor). Now your lightly armor folks are much better at surviving combat. But you still need to limit it, period, to 3 or 4 levels total, or you will obviate armor completely.

 

2. Similarly, consider attacks total dice, and spells total dice/effects. Those need to be limited too because it's easy to blow past expectations in a point system. Figure out about where your defense for enemies are and make sure your players can still damage enemies with their attacks. Usually around 1d6 to 2d6 Killing Attack is good for weapons. Keep defenses for enemies in the 6 rPD to 12 rPD range (or less) and you'll be able to count on PCs being able to wittle them down. Don't be afraid to make minimum limits too, so players don't gimp themselves.

 

3. If you don't buy Fantasy Hero, you'll have to come up with an equipment list and prices. Fantasy Hero also has some neat ideas for making weapons a little more unique and flavorful.

 

4. Talents! DnD has feats, Hero has Talents. Fantasy Hero a large selection of Talents for your players to choose, and often a campaign book like Valdorian Age or Tuala Morn will add a few more. Make sure the non-spell caster types have a large selection of talents so they have a wider selection of options in and out of combat. (Mages dominate less this way.)

 

5. Don't be afraid to modify the system in weird ways. Valdorian Age, for example, is an urban medieval swords and sorcery milieu. It places a lot of emphasis on using PRE attacks to "defeat" enemies. With citizens and guards around, this provides a way for players to get past obstacles without leaving a trail of dead bodies in their wake. It also seems like it would be a lot of fun coming up with a ton of insults to hurl at foes in order to defeat them.

 

6. Besides Gestures, Incantations, etc. it's normal to disallow Spreading for spells, and often Bouncing too (might depend on the spell). Use a -1/2 limitation and say you can't use those. Also add "in all other respects, it works like a Spell should" just to cya in case you forget something. Personally, I don't allow spells to be Haymakered or to use Set or Brace. I do allow spells to be Pushed however, using the heroic rules for doing so. All that together is about -1/2.

 

7. Also in general you want to work carefully to make sure the campaign limits (usually for fantasy it's the Heroic campaign limits) work for you and your players. Consider setting up a mock combat with some random character and critters to see how they run. A quick "gladiator fight" with different characters against different monsters will give you a feel for the system and the limits.

 

 

OK that's all I can think of for now, good luck in your gaming with Hero!

[Markdoc]

Re: Advice for new campaign using home-brewed setting

 

My take is that you seem to have a pretty good grasp on the magic. Some things that aren't there are the limitations extra time and concentration. As it stands, even with - for example - gestures and incantations, magic can still safely and easily be used in combat. If that's what you envisage, cool. If you want a more traditional S&S style game without armoured spellcasters slugging it out in the front line, you might want to look at those two limitations in addition.

 

For my own FH world, all spellcasting (at least by mundane creatures)has to take 4 limitations: extra time (at least a full phase) Concentration (at least 1/2 DCV), requires a skill roll, and "uses Mana" - a custom -1/2 limitation that means that all spells must cost END (at least at the -1/4 costs end to start, level: they get an extra limitation, of course if they don't normally cost end) and that all END use for spells is LTE. This reflects the fact that in that game world, magic is an "unnatural" process (at least for humans) requiring great strength of will, years of training, and arcane knowledge to work, and is since the caster is working with his own lifeforce, physically exhausting as well. More prosaically, in-game, it limits the use of magic is stress situations like combat and also limits how long and how often magical effects can be invoked, so that casters don't overshadow other archetypes.

 

Secondly, you don't note how characters will actually "buy" spells. Are you going to allow power frameworks? The mutable effect you describe would work well with a VPP, for example. Or will you require that spells be bought individually? Or are you not going to charge for spells at all, and hope that the skill roll will keep power levels under control? (My own experience with that approach is that it doesn't work, but you can always try )

 

Lastly, I'd second the note of caution with regard to things like combat luck. I personally have no problem with people buying multiple iterations of Combat luck and scorning armour. If it's good enough for the Grey Mouser, it's good enough for me. I do however, have big problems with them then piling armour on top, and ending up having the same defences as a main battle tank. A house rule I use in all my fantasy games is that "free equipment" does not stack - either with itself or with powers. So a wizard in plate harness with a forcefield gets the better of the two defences, not both added. A character with combat luck does not add it to his armour to calculate PD. Likewise a wizard can't buy (for example) "extra stun multiplier" as a naked advantage and stack it on top of a free weapon to get a cheap, very nasty attack. If he wants a very nasty attack he has to buy it. Abilities bought with points, on the other hand, do stack. Note also that powers specifically designed to affect external powers (like Aid, or Transform) still work on free equipment, so wizards can still enhance objects: it's just that they can't "incorporate" the points in free equipment into a power.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Re: Advice for new campaign using home-brewed setting

 

I would like to hear about your magic system in a bit more detail.

 

It does strike me as odd that EVERY mage should be self-taught - what, there are NO apprentice & master arrangements, even informally?

In order for "I am a theurge of the 3rd circle!" to even be meaningful, there has to be some kind of subculture or tradition that lets spellcasters know what it means.

 

Are you allowing nonhumans? If so, with what rules?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Rider of the Palindromedary Circle

[Portland Barbie]

Re: Advice for new campaign using home-brewed setting

 

My take is that you seem to have a pretty good grasp on the magic. Some things that aren't there are the limitations extra time and concentration. As it stands' date=' even with - for example - gestures and incantations, magic can still safely and easily be used in combat. If that's what you envisage, cool. If you want a more traditional S&S style game without armoured spellcasters slugging it out in the front line, you might want to look at those two limitations in addition.[/quote']

 

This is kind of what I envision, with the "weaker" spells being able to be cast round after round in combat, at least until the area's END reserve has been drained. Also, the more powerful spells may require an extra Phase or two to gain the required END needed to cast the spell. (Although you have caused me to think about reworking the END Reserve as an AID (END), creating an unknown variable as to how long the caster has to take before he has the END needed.) Either way the caster cannot take any other actions (uncertain if I want to make it 1/2 DCV or 0 DCV) until they have "absorbed" the needed END to pay the spell's END cost.

 

Also, I am not looking at having high END Reserves, even for the more "living things" dense areas (these would most likely have a higher REC instead), which would be in it's own way limiting in the amount of END a cast can gain in a single TURN to power his spells.

 

This also creates issues when there's multiple spellcasters (which would most likely be a PC or two, and the major villain of the adventure) all using up the same END Reserve to power their spells. The villain would be less likely to be concerned about "pushing" the END Reserve over it's limit and start Draining STUN instead, which after the first encounter or two in which this happens, could cause the players of a spell caster to be more selective in their casting since they would be shortening the amount of time in which this would begin to occur.

 

I have not yet decided if I want to limit the armors spell casters can wear, since I never agreed with metal interfering with the energies used to cast spells (if this was the case how could any metallic item be imbued with magic?) But I do see the weight, flexibility (even though it has been discovered that the heavier armors are not as restrictive as once thought), and endurance needed to wear heavier armors being affected by the fact that spell casters are more inclined to spend the day in a room reading then they are towards physical activity in heavy gear/armor/weapons training.

 

Secondly, you don't note how characters will actually "buy" spells. Are you going to allow power frameworks? The mutable effect you describe would work well with a VPP, for example. Or will you require that spells be bought individually? Or are you not going to charge for spells at all, and hope that the skill roll will keep power levels under control? (My own experience with that approach is that it doesn't work, but you can always try )

 

I am requiring players to purchase spells as Powers, but don't really want to limit how they may do so, since I am looking at the magic system, beyond how it's "physics" work, to be as open-ended, and individual as possible. If one player wants to use a VPP to build their selection of spells, then they can. If an other player buys his spells individually, and is limited to just the effects he has detailed, then that is available too.

 

I want the "flavor" of magic to be as distinct as the character using it. I do realize this is going to require a bit more work in making sure things are balanced, but since I do not have any time limit (I currently don't have anyone who is willing to play) I'm not too concerned.

 

Lastly, I'd second the note of caution with regard to things like combat luck.

 

I have not gotten this far in the detailing of the system. I tend to be a bit anal when it comes to world creation, and want to have all my ducks in a row before even the first game session. As such, I am approaching everything one step at a time, and getting each individual aspect worked out. However, I will keep this in mind when I get to it.

 

I would like to hear about your magic system in a bit more detail.

 

It does strike me as odd that EVERY mage should be self-taught - what, there are NO apprentice & master arrangements, even informally?

 

Yes, there are no apprentice/master arrangements, I'm doing this as an in-setting mechanic for the reason as to why magic is not as prevalent as it could be. Think of the books each spell caster uses to teach themselves as magic primers. Those who are willing to put forth the time and effort into finding and teaching themselves how to use magic are capable of using it, since the books are effectively the master teaching the apprentice. It's like a "self-help primer in magic", teaches you the basics, gives you examples on how to implement what it's teaching, but doesn't give you step-by-step instructions on how to get the same result every time. (i.e. there's no spellbooks, just books detailing the methods on how to manipulate the "mystical" energies used to create magical effects).

 

In order for "I am a theurge of the 3rd circle!" to even be meaningful, there has to be some kind of subculture or tradition that lets spellcasters know what it means.

 

The whole "claims to power" system is implemented in the books used to teach magic. Think of a book that contains all the systems of math (addition/subtraction, all the way up to trig and physics). You're given the knowledge to do advanced math along with the more simpler math, but only through practice, moments of insight, and dedication are you able to effectively implement it on a regularly successful basis. Once you're gained enough knowledge in say algebra, you can claim to be a "Master of Algebra" because you know that there's really not much left out there for you to learn.

 

Also, this informal form of "claims to power" adds to the RP and suspense of a game. The players can encounter a villain who claims to be a master of necromancy, but is simply doing so for intimidation, and does not have the actual knowledge and skill using such a title requires. Since there's no "policing" of mages, there's nothing out there to enforce the claims, rightly or not, that a spell caster uses.

 

Are you allowing nonhumans? If so, with what rules?

Yes, I do plan on allowing demihumans as PCs, but only an additional race or two. The world is predominately human, but with a very limited number of intelligent humanoid races capable of creating their own forms of civilization.

 

I do want to step away from the whole elves/dwarves/gnomes flavor that has become so prevalent in frpg these days, and as such I am looking at possibly a race of humanoid canines, similar to the wolfmen in FH, or the Coyles in Paladium, and a humanoid serpent race along the lines of the yuan-ti (at least in appearance) or the serpent-folk in FH. I am planning on having references to the existence of elves and dwarves, but they are races that existed in the world's ancient past, and no longer exist today.

[Portland Barbie]

Re: Advice for new campaign using home-brewed setting

 

Okay, I deleted the original post about this, but it seems I do need to clarify something. I am NOT new to world building. I have been doing so, for multiple systems, for the last 21 years . . . I am just new to the HERO system. I do appreciate suggestions, but am looking at how to implement my ideas, how to tweak them to function better, and how they might work out at the table.

 

I do not need any resources for ideas of my world, nor do I need suggestions on how to build it. I'm looking for the crunch to my fluff, not just fluff . . .

 

This isn't my first rodeo, just my first time in this arena.

 

Thank you