Specialized Skills

[Lucius]

Over the years I've used a number of specialized skills - Skills with Limitations. I decided to do up a list and present it and see what others might add to it.

 

1 Not my first rodeo: Breakfall 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only if thrown from / falling off of, a mount (Prerequisite: Riding; -1)

 

1 Trained to be thrown: Breakfall 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only if thrown in combat (Prerequisite: Martial Arts Grab, Throw, or Escape manuever; -1)

 

1 Oops: Breakfall 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only after failing a Climbing roll (Prerequisite: Climbing ; -1)

 

1 Oops: Breakfall 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only after failing an Acrobatics roll (Prerequisite: Acrobatics; -1)

 

2 Talking shop: +2 with Conversation (4 Active Points); Limited Power +1 if characters have a skill in common, +2 if at least 2 skills in common (-1)

 

1 Sincerity: Persuasion 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only to convince someone of the truth (as character knows it) (-1)

 

1 Convincing Liar: Persuasion 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only to convince someone of a falsehood (-1)

 

1 Hunter's snares: Security Systems 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only to set, recognize, or disarm, snares, pits, and similar hunter's traps (-1)

 

1 Call of the Wild: Mimicry 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Bird and animal calls (-1)

 

1 Woodcraft: Stealth 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only in wilderness / outdoor settings (-½)

 

1 Field Repair: Weaponsmith 11- (3 Active Points); Limited Power Only to maintain and repair armor and weapons (-1)

 

1 Fencing: Trading 10- (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only dealing with thieves, smugglers, fences, etc (Prerequisite: Streetwise; -1)

 

 

One reason I did these as proficiencies is that, if a character has the full Skill or later learns the full Skill, these can be converted easily into Skill Levels with the relevant Skill.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Unlimited palindromedary

 

 

 

[Killer Shrike]

Yeah, I do things like this when it is appropriate to concept as well.

 

I particularly like your "talking shop" item, however. That's pretty clever.

[psyber624]

Interesting concept. I have done limited skills before, but mostly it was with Foci (such as Lock picking tools) or for oddball stuff. (My Cyberkinetic wound up with a really weird Computer Programming Skill with Advantages and Limitations to represent the ability to program with a thought)

[Killer Shrike]

Yeah, I do things like this when it is appropriate to concept as well.

 

I particularly like your "talking shop" item, however. That's pretty clever.

One quibble though...I might change the terminology "Prerequisite" to "Must Follow" or something along those lines..."Prereq" sounds more like something that is resolved when you BUY the skill, and is a meaningless restriction in the HERO System.

[Ninja-Bear]

One question lucius. How did the skill get a 10- roll? Thanks.

[Lucius]

One question lucius. How did the skill get a 10- roll? Thanks.

 

 

Instead of basing it on the 3 pt "full skill" that gets a characteristic roll, I used the 2 pt "proficiency" that gets a 10 or less. Partly that's because I'm thinking of making a list of these and presenting them to players as Talents -

I thought it would be less confusing if it has a straightforward "pay 1 pt, get a 10 or less roll to do X in Y circumstance" and

I thought it would be less confusing if a player wanted to buy the basic Skill and also for some reason wanted the specialization could pay the same cost and get a "+1"

 

As for the prerequisites, that's because I wouldn't allow a character to have those particular abilities without the logically implied abilities to go with them. I can't imagine someone being skilled at avoiding damage from falling from a horse without also being skilled in riding one, for example. There is a precedent for the concept of prerequisites in Rules as Written; Defense Manuever for example.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding, Limited to palindromedaries

[Christopher]

Note:

Proficiency (wich is used for the cost) was added in 6E, if memory serves. Think of it as a higher version of Familarity (wich is 8-)

 

Regarding the idea:

It sounds like you constructed something similar to the the "Familarity of Task" Modifiers that are already part of the Skill System (but are often forgotten/overread):

+ 1-3 (to Treshold) "Character has extensive knowledge of the object of the Skill Roll"

- 1-3 "Extremely strange or weird object to perform the Skill on"

[Ninja-Bear]

One question lucius. How did the skill get a 10- roll? Thanks.

 

 

Instead of basing it on the 3 pt "full skill" that gets a characteristic roll, I used the 2 pt "proficiency" that gets a 10 or less. Partly that's because I'm thinking of making a list of these and presenting them to players as Talents -

I thought it would be less confusing if it has a straightforward "pay 1 pt, get a 10 or less roll to do X in Y circumstance" and

I thought it would be less confusing if a player wanted to buy the basic Skill and also for some reason wanted the specialization could pay the same cost and get a "+1"

 

As for the prerequisites, that's because I wouldn't allow a character to have those particular abilities without the logically implied abilities to go with them. I can't imagine someone being skilled at avoiding damage from falling from a horse without also being skilled in riding one, for example. There is a precedent for the concept of prerequisites in Rules as Written; Defense Manuever for example.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding, Limited to palindromedaries

Hmmm 2 points for an 10- roll? I feel the munchkin rising in me.

[Killer Shrike]

Note:

Proficiency (wich is used for the cost) was added in 6E, if memory serves. Think of it as a higher version of Familarity (wich is 8-)

 

Regarding the idea:

It sounds like you constructed something similar to the the "Familarity of Task" Modifiers that are already part of the Skill System (but are often forgotten/overread):

+ 1-3 (to Treshold) "Character has extensive knowledge of the object of the Skill Roll"

- 1-3 "Extremely strange or weird object to perform the Skill on"

Proficiency...yes, added in 6e.

 

Familiarity of Task...no, this not a bonus or penalty to a generalized skill that you can roll for anything the skill is applicable to, it's a narrowing of what you can use the skill to roll for in the first place.

[Killer Shrike]

One question lucius. How did the skill get a 10- roll? Thanks.

 

 

Instead of basing it on the 3 pt "full skill" that gets a characteristic roll, I used the 2 pt "proficiency" that gets a 10 or less. Partly that's because I'm thinking of making a list of these and presenting them to players as Talents -

I thought it would be less confusing if it has a straightforward "pay 1 pt, get a 10 or less roll to do X in Y circumstance" and

I thought it would be less confusing if a player wanted to buy the basic Skill and also for some reason wanted the specialization could pay the same cost and get a "+1"

 

As for the prerequisites, that's because I wouldn't allow a character to have those particular abilities without the logically implied abilities to go with them. I can't imagine someone being skilled at avoiding damage from falling from a horse without also being skilled in riding one, for example. There is a precedent for the concept of prerequisites in Rules as Written; Defense Manuever for example.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding, Limited to palindromedaries

Defense Maneuver is self contained in discrete levels, not quite the same thing...unless I misunderstand what you mean.

 

Prereq's for canned Talents I could see; they are more feat like and represent canned / pre-packaged abilities...I've used Talents as Prereq's (or, more specifically, Unlocks) actually. Talents are also good for making things that would otherwise require a Power for campaigns that don't allow open usage of the Powers rules (and though its a meaningless distinction, a Skill with modifiers on it is, technically, a Power). Particularly if you pushed it a bit and made a Custom Talent tree where to get to better / desirable Talents you needed to get some number of other Talents you could make a cool setting defining thing out of it where people could view it as a feature rather than a system of restrictions.

 

 

But Talents aside, prereqs as a lim on Skills is just kind of odd...design time limitations are rarely actually limiting in the HERO System as all abilities are purchased and players have free choice as to what they get and how they define what they get.

 

if I were making a character with one skill that depended on another skill and I didnt have that other skill, it would be less expensive to just buy the skill I was trying to limit outright rather than buy the other skill and then buy the limited version of the skill I want.

 

Conversely characters that already have the skill are not limited by the Prereq when they buy it the second skill because they already had the other skill.

 

 

Scenario 1:

 

WANT SKILL Y...+1 point

REQUIRES ME TO HAVE SKILL X...+3 points

I DONT

 

BUY BOTH == 4 points

BUY SKILL Y OUTRIGHT WITH NO LIMIT == 3 points

 

 

Scenario 2:

 

WANT SKILL Y...+1 point

REQUIRES ME TO HAVE SKILL X...I ALREADY DO...+0 points

 

BUY SKILL Y == 1 point

REQUIREMENT LIM DOESN'T ACTUALLY LIMIT ME, EVER

 

 

Must follow however, or an RSR on a Skill...is always limiting even to the character who already had Skill X as it is a runtime resolution limitation.

[Lucius]

Killer Shrike: You have misunderstood me, perhaps I was not clear.

 

I am not using a prerequisite as a LIMITATION on the Skill. I will go back and try to clarify that in the original post.

 

I am saying, you have to buy X before you can buy Y, but this does not make Y any cheaper. What makes Y cheaper, the Limitation, is the restriction to how, when, or what it can be used for; "Not my first rodeo" has a Limitation that you can only use it if falling off a horse, not if someone knocks you off a table or something. You have to have Riding skill to buy it, but that doesn't count as a Limitation; it's just a prerequisite or an "unlock" or whatever word you want to use, not a Limitation.

 

edit: Okay, it won't let me edit the original post. Otherwise I would. I hope this has made it clear anyway.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

This post is not cheaper because it's required to have a palindromedary tagline.