How do modifiers on the Hand to Hand power apply?

[DasBroot]

New GM here using Champions Complete.

 

How do positive modifiers on the Hand to Hand attack power (HA) on page 70 work in conjunction with the base strength damage? It's the weirdest power I've found because it adds to another damage source - and doesn't function without it.

 

For example, one of my players has a 20 str and a 4d6 hand attack with Penetrating.  His strength damage is 4d6 and the hand attack adds 4d6 for 8d6 total. Is he guaranteed 4 stun damage or 8? 

 

Similarly another character has armor piercing on her hand attack (well, monstrous armor cracking sledgehammer attack, technically).  This one is 8d6 from strength and 4d6 from the hand attack for 12d6 - is the entire 12d6 armor piercing, or just the 4d6?  How do I calculate the damage against a foe with 20 rpd?

 

I've read the sections about independant advantages but it doesn't seem appropriate here - the first player wouldn't want to have the option of using Penetrating without his Sonic Gauntlets hand damage, and there's nothing armor piercing about the brick's 8d6 strength.

 

I'm certain this has been answered a hundred times, but I've read the combat section, advantage section, powers section, and characteristics section and just don't see it.

[Oruncrest]

Surprisingly, I'm first to respond. Weird.

 

When adding damage from two different powers, a power with an advantage is typically considered the base attack, and all powers without that advantage are reduced by the dividend of that advantage as if the advantage were a limitation. For instance, the fellow with 4D6 Penetrating HA and 20 STR will have his STR dice lowered by the +1/2 Advantage of penetrating, i.e.: 4D6 / (1 + 1/2 = 1 1/2) = 2 2/3 or 2 1/2D6 (since we don't use 2/3 D6) penetrating which is added to the 4D6 Penetrating HA to get 6 1/2 D6 Penetrating total.

 

The same applies to the lady with the 4D6 AP Hand Attack and 40 STR: 8D6 / 1 1/4 = 6D6 AP + 4D6 AP = 10D6 AP total.

[Oruncrest]

Here's a PDF that should help.

Quick DC Chart for HERO.pdf

[Kraven Kor]

Here's a PDF that should help.

 

Could someone make one that covers higher advantage levels, up to +2 or so?

 

I...  suck at making PDF's but could extrapolate from this and make an excel sheet.

[Hyper-Man]

The easiest way to figure this is to take the total Advantages on the HA and view them as a 'sort-of' Limitation on the character's Strength.

 

example

4d6 HA with +3/4 Advantage combined with a 70 STR

70 / 1.75 = 40. 

Total combined damage will be 12d6 with Advantages (4d6 from HA +8d6 from 70 STR)

 

It's also important to remember that Advantages that do not increase damage like Reduced Endurance do not get figured into this calculation.

[DasBroot]

That PDF really helps.  Thanks!

 

So hypothetically if the brick decided she DID want armor piercing strength and then decided to slam a robot with an unmodified 4d6  Hand to Hand Attack it would be 8d6 AP (strength, becoming the base because of the advantage) and, after running it through that spreadsheet, 3d6 AP from the hand attack for 11d6 AP?