Summon cost 4th ed help

[knightstar4]

In a 4th ed game, I'm playing a character with some summoning ability that hasn't used it as of yet.  The question has come up as to the actual limit of what could be summoned per summon level.

Take for example, 50 points in summon elves.  While it's clear that you can summon an elf with 80 character points, if those elves had any disadvantages, would they get any extra points for those disadvantages?  And would said extra points count towards that 80 character point limit or not?

[Christougher]

That's something that was never really clear.  If that 80 point elf had 20 points in disadvantages(that add to the character) he's a 100 point elf, and so should probably cost more.

 

For the sake of play balance, you probably consider it the way 6E does:  It's an 80 point elf.  The fact that it has 30 points in disads and requires only 50 base points is just a bookkeeping issue that doesn't affect play.

 

Chris.

[Christopher]

There are three values to define rough power level:

Base Points

Complication points

Total Points

Total Points = Base Points + Points from Complciation (+ used Experience)

 

There are two things that changed here from 5E to 6E (and 4E is considered very similar to 5E, so I asume it was similar there too):

1. In 5E Charactes were expressed as:

Base Points/Complication Points. Wich made Total Points a math excersie.

 

In 6E they are expressed:

Total Points/Complication Points. Wich makes Base Points a math excersie. Without any incentive of doing it (see 2).

 

2. They only use Total Points now for anything from Follower to Duplicate.

As of 5E, Followers for example were based on Base Points, not total Points.

My 5E book implies (without saying) that Summon uses Total Points (including EP), between the text and the example.

[massey]

In a 4th ed game, I'm playing a character with some summoning ability that hasn't used it as of yet.  The question has come up as to the actual limit of what could be summoned per summon level.

Take for example, 50 points in summon elves.  While it's clear that you can summon an elf with 80 character points, if those elves had any disadvantages, would they get any extra points for those disadvantages?  And would said extra points count towards that 80 character point limit or not?

 

My 4th ed book has long since fallen apart, and I'd have to look at it again to remember.  That's hard because it's in a landfill somewhere.  I think your summon paid for the base points of the summoned character, and so disadvantages would make for a stronger summoned creature.  It could just as easily be the other way though.  So Summoning a 100 (base) + 150 (disads) = 250 point superhero could either be paying for 100 base points, or it could be paying for 250 points, and I don't remember which.

[knightstar4]

The GM ended up ruling cost was based on base plus complications.  That works just fine.  It just means that the character can't summon things with as many total points as he has.