Talents, Multipowers and Skill levels.

[Alibear]

Okay here is my problem.

 

Fred says that talents and special powers have now place in a Multipower outwith GM permission. So far so good.

 

Talents have all been broken down so that they are built with powers and skills, we can see the building blocks as it were.

 

Here is my stumbling block..

 

If I build some of the Talents just using the building blocks then theoretically they could be put in an MP. How do skill levels and penalty skill levels fit in an MP or do they at all? I think that it should be possible but it strikes in Munchkinism and I feel you get too much 'bang for your buck' if you go down that road.

 

Any thoughts on this subject?

[TheEmerged]

Re: Talents, Multipowers and Skill levels.

 

Originally posted by Alibear

How do skill levels and penalty skill levels fit in an MP or do they at all? I think that it should be possible but it strikes in Munchkinism and I feel you get too much 'bang for your buck' if you go down that road.

 

Any thoughts on this subject?

 

Yeah, I wouldn't allow skill levels (penalty or otherwise) in a multipower except as addon's to other slots. Skill levels already have some multipower-like effects.

 

At the very least, I'd enforce a rule that skill levels in a multipower are effectively "limited" and therefore must be declared as OCV or DCV and not switchable.

 

This is, I'd allow the following slots...

 

60 pt multipower

6 u 10d6 EB, +2 OCV (50+10)

6 u 96 EB, +3DCV (40+20)

 

...but not the following

 

(same pool size)

12 m +12 OCV

12 m +12 DCV

[JeffreyWKramer]

I'm pretty inclined to not allow Skill Levels within a Multipower at all, other than perhaps constructs in which a standard Power is in the MP and some points in the slot go to improve the power (Missile Deflection with +5 to the roll, for example). In that case, since the Power the Skill Level goes into is part of the MP, it isn't abusive to have some points in the MP pool go to that power. On the other hand, I'd be extremely wary of something like, say, +5 with HTH Combat as a MP slot.

 

Even if CSLs are built as a Power (with the Costs END Limitation, for example), I'd be very wary that someone not just drop in slots like +10 DCV as a U slot, total cost = 3 pts. At the very least, I would require an awful good special effect rationale, but such things seem way too cost-effective.

[zornwil]

I know this is a wussy answer, but it would depend on the SFX. Gadgets which trigger these skill level changes I would probably allow if, for example, they were foci and part of the traditional utility belt construct, wherein everything else in the utility belt is on the MP.

[Bartman]

Originally posted by JeffreyWKramer

Even if CSLs are built as a Power (with the Costs END Limitation, for example), I'd be very wary that someone not just drop in slots like +10 DCV as a U slot, total cost = 3 pts. At the very least, I would require an awful good special effect rationale, but such things seem way too cost-effective.

Like Tachion in the Champions book? I think he has exactly this construction defined as a continuous cycling teleport.

 

If someone came to me with a CSL based power in a framework, I'd take a triple look at it before allowing it. But as long as it wasn't abusive I'd probably allow it.

[BNakagawa]

If you're going to allow this construction at all (and given that it exists in the published literature, it's a little hard to exclude it) then you're obviously going to have to clear it on a case by case basis.

 

My $0.02 is to pay special attention to any such example that can move from character to character, as it's bound to become incredibly unbalancing if you don't police it carefully.

[badger3k]

I've used it before - the character is a precog, with the ability to scan a few seconds ahead in time and see the opponents attack, thus getting a +8 (?) DCV bonus (only for dcv of course - the powers from the USPD). The ability costs END, and is an ultra, so it takes up most of the mp.

 

I had another character (cyborg) with a skills mp - his computer could process skills but not all at once - he had several combat and ranged skill levels - the fx was the computer). IIRC, the programs were all narrowed to particular weapons (+4 w/pistols, etc). Never had any problem with it.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Originally posted by Bartman

Like Tachion in the Champions book? I think he has exactly this construction defined as a continuous cycling teleport.

 

Yep, exactly like Tachyon. I hadn't noticed he had that before, as I've never used that character in an adventure. That's borderline-abusive, as far as I'm concerned - he's a brick, and for 3 points he can pummel someone in HTH while getting +8 DCV. It's not like it's totally insurmountable - mental powers and AoE stuff will still toast him just fine - and in fact I'd have no problem at all with that construct outside the MP, or even in an EC, but that much effect for 3 pts, when the character can still mount a pretty good offense (since a primary offense falls totally outside the MP), is pretty darn cost effective.

 

For the record, I don't feel a great tendency to always allow something just because the books set a precedent. Captain Chronos' NND Entangle is a perfect example (at least in that one the write-up clearly states it's an egregious rules-twister).

[Alibear]

Hmmm..

 

Food for thought, thanks fellas.