Charges Reserve

[Vondy]

I am currently running a vampire pbem that is based loosely on the the world of darkness in order to provide a common reference point, but its definately divergent in content. I've also pulled a bunch of concepts and characters from other sources (the anitaverse, forever knights, etc), and am ignoring most of the other wolrd of darkness games. Werewolves, for instance, are not white wolf werewolves. I have been using a chop-shop version of the Dream Pod 9 Core Rules (I hate white wolf's mechanics), but none of my players have it, and we're all old-school hero-philes when the rubber hits the road.

 

So, it seems natural to do a Hero Conversion. There is a passable conversion on Susano's site that could work with tweaking for personal taste, but I have run into one thing that doesn't translate well:

 

Blood Pool

 

The obvious solution is: use and endurence reserve, but this has three drawbacks I don't want to deal with:

 

1) excessive book-keeping

2) the AP conversion from BDY to ENDRES is a touch much

3) discipline cost in blood is generally flat (no variance for AP)

 

I am considering two hacks to streamline the process:

 

1) put the vampires disciplines in an MP with charges (blood points) and have the vampires transfer convert body to charges

 

or

 

2) come up with some sort of charges reserve the character can tap into

 

The first one is the most legal, but has the drawback that, since many vamps can tap into more than one power at a time, that it has to be prodigiously big (high point cost) to fit, and some powers would require GM caveat (0 End Powers, for instance).

 

The second one is more of a hack, but allows a great deal more flexibility. It also requires some serious thinking to make sure it works right.

 

Any ideas?

[zornwil]

Maybe you could just post a link to this "Blood Pool" or explain more about it, I don't know much about it and don't have a link to where a description would fit.

 

As to the idea of a "Charges Reserve", interesting thought. IIRC, you can apply advantages to the entire MP by assigning them to the base cost, although I do think I recall that Charges are normally forbidden from this. You could allow that, then perhaps you could have the MP set up with whatever minimal number of charges you need, and then have the transfer set up so that it feeds the whole MP, with any increase in AP feeding the Charges (you could prefigure what each breakpoint is for each increase in Charges, keeping that list so the math is easy). Then they would apply to the whole MP, albeit at the rate of "these are the charges for all powers". I think any concern regarding allowing the advantage to trickle down to the powers is countered by the fact that the Charges apply to the entire MP and not each slot individually - i.e., you can use any collection of uses up to the max of the base MP, not that number of uses for each slot.

 

Top of my head thought - those usually get shot down...

[Pattern Ghost]

You could just use the Blood Pool system more or less as-is. Just have the dicipline write ups in Hero terms, declare that you won't be using END for disciplines, and then use a standard effect Transfer to fill the blood pool.

[Pattern Ghost]

Also, isn't blood pool size based on age? I suppose that could be a Perk.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by zornwil

Maybe you could just post a link to this "Blood Pool" or explain more about it, I don't know much about it and don't have a link to where a description would fit.

 

 

The basic idea is that vampires burn blood to feul their powers, which they recoup through feeding. WW represented this as "blood points" which are essentially charges. The number of blood points (the blood pool) and the amount they can burn in any given turn increase the closer ones generation is to the first vampire. They are effectively charges, though some real high-water mark powers require more than one blood point, or charge.

 

I think the MP is the way to go, despite the high point cost involved with being able to run multiple slots at full power at one time.

 

In meta-creator I could apply the charges to a folder with all of the powers in it (no framework), but then, you pay the increased cost for all of the powers at full price, even though the powers all have to draw on the same pool of charges.

 

I was going to declare a flat 1 Body = 1 Charge rate for the transfer.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost

Also, isn't blood pool size based on age? I suppose that could be a Perk.

 

The size (number of charges) and the amount you can burn per turn is based on the number of steps a vamp is from the first generation (Cain).

 

The number of charges per turn was essentially my objection to a multipower - imagine if you will, a vampire with several powers approaching 80-100 AP, and having to have a big enough reserve to activate two or three of them at one time...

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by D-Man

The size (number of charges) and the amount you can burn per turn is based on the number of steps a vamp is from the first generation (Cain).

 

The number of charges per turn was essentially my objection to a multipower - imagine if you will, a vampire with several powers approaching 80-100 AP, and having to have a big enough reserve to activate two or three of them at one time...

 

I don't really see a problem with it if you're porting over Vampire, and if everyone has an equal opportunity to do it.

 

I'm not sure I'd use normal Hero price structure on powers that convert at that high of a level. I'd probably just build them so that I know how the powers interact with the rest of the world on a mechanics level, then cost out the blood pools and the powers individually.

 

The same kind of problem comes up converting DnD over: Some of the first level spells, when costed out in Hero terms come out to be WAY more expensive than a starting FH character can or should have. They're built unbalanced on purpose in DnD, and don't translate well.

 

As long as you cost the blood pools and the disciplines in scale to their usefulness in the campaign, you can really charge whatever you want for them. In a Vampire game, a 3 point contact may be WAY more useful than a 40 point energy blast. (Not that you need to scale things back that far, but still. Why have characters tallying up hundreds of pts of powers when you can shorthand it?)

[Pattern Ghost]

Another way to put it: In Hero, skills are cheap. They're cheap because they're trivial in comparison to Powers, for superheroic and cinematic games. Vampire has always struck me as a game where the powers are trivial to the character interaction, so recosting things isn't out of order.

[Talon]

Another option is to use END Reserves, but to simplify it into effectively being charges. Declare (and enforce through appropriate use of Reduced END and Increased END) that all powers cost the same END, use standard effect so that draining blood supplies the right amount of END, then express the whole thing in terms of charges instead of END. The result is strictly by-the-book behind the scenes, but in keeping with the source material from the players' perspective.

[Nevenall]

I could be wrong, but I think that in the latest version of the Vampire game you can only spend blood points on ONE thing per turn, so you might not need to worry about being able to activate several powers at the same time.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Nevenall

I could be wrong, but I think that in the latest version of the Vampire game you can only spend blood points on ONE thing per turn, so you might not need to worry about being able to activate several powers at the same time.

 

Since I am running this game from website and free download information and own no white wolf products... I have no idea.

[Farkling]

I play White Wolf.

 

I monomaiacally AVOID Vampyre. Most Vampyre players are caught up in the vampiric/super powers to abuse the mere mortal cattle. The Camarilla is not a force to be reckoned with, its something that is talked about in the rules and structure books that cripples their ability to be and do what they want to whomever they wish.

 

THOSE players would be easy to handle.

Flat purchase (or MP frameworking if necessary) for Blood Disciplines is fine.

 

Why preserve the SYMBOLS of the system? Why not just preserve the intent? HERO is famed for granularity...use it. When Blood Points are gone in White Wolf, characters are pretty much powerless to use disciplines...if you convert Blood Pool to END Reserve, They may have a few points left for a minor effort or for incidental abilities.

Let players buy flavorish powers that still draw from the reserve. (Supernatural Tracking, 1-2 DCV levels, Clinging)

 

Characters will be able to use these even if they cannot access the larger powers...

 

Blood Pool = END Reserve

No REC purchased, or (say) 5 REC/Turn, only while drinking blood from live source. Vampires Drinking Blood will kill a human in, hmmm, say two Turns, and DRAIN completely in three.

 

Consider the Mechanic effect::

Main "source" of charging for the END Battery could also be bought as a Power Transfer (xd6) versus BODY, only affects organic mammals. So, 1 pip of BODY Transfer equates to 4 pips of END. A human is dying after 10 pips (40 END) and drained after 20 pips for 80 END. So, be certain that minor diciplines use at least 10 END, and 4 Discipline activations will entail finding another victim to drink.

 

If conversion or props are necessary, then I would recommend 5 or 10 END = 1 Blood Point, and 3-5 phases of Blood Drinking yields one Blood Point.

 

The 1d6 Transfer can be given to PC's for free...and they can purchase another die or two for "experience" or "occult rites"

 

that's it for my analysis

[Farkling]

And for the record, to make the Blood mor eneedful, you can switch the END cost back to Pre-5th.

 

1 END for 5 AP for Vampiric Abilities...I would definitley switch th eSTR to that.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Farkling

I play White Wolf.

 

I monomaiacally AVOID Vampyre. Most Vampyre players are caught up in the vampiric/super powers to abuse the mere mortal cattle. The Camarilla is not a force to be reckoned with, its something that is talked about in the rules and structure books that cripples their ability to be and do what they want to whomever they wish.

 

 

Fortuanately my players (who are generally into supers and fantasy) are major story hounds who don't even get into the super-powers in a big way when their characters are wearing tights and a cape. For my thoughts on your typical white wolf player you should see the "white wolf's big announcement" thread in the "other genres" board (then ask me how I really feel ).

 

In all truth we picked Vampire so that everyone would have a common starting point, but its anything but a canonical game, and while it steals clans and some characters from WW, it started out divergent and is going becoming radically so even though we've only made it through 1.5 nights of game time thus far.

 

We've also got ideas and characters from the anitaverse, a number of vampire movies, the crimson comic, and even forever knight. And aside from werewolf we're ignoring most of the rest of the WOD. Its been a lot of fun so far - but I doubt the sects (and even some of the clans) will survive in tact. The general premise thus far is:

 

"Gehenna just started, what do you do?" (a bit more complex that that, but hey, its a paraphrase).

 

You had some interesting ideas mechanically. I'll ponder upon them.

[tesuji]

Here is the low bookkeeping way i would approach it.

 

Buy all the vampire powers normally but all vampire powers must be purchased to 0 End cost (with advantages if necessary.)

 

All powers favired by a vampires clan may be bought in an EC. Powers outside of his clan specific ones are bought full cost.

 

All vampires must take a physical lim: "needs blood to use powers. Excessive use will deplete vampire blood pool causing franzy chance and loss of powers."

 

The "limitation" will vary in frequency and severity based on the age of the vampire (older vamps have larger blood pools) and the common availability of food.

 

Then, instead of micromanaging the blood pool like endurance, develop some general guidelines and go from there.

[Farkling]

My Mage players had a conniption when the werewolves exhibited the humnform abilities from the Anitaverse.

 

One of them went so far as to say it wasn't like that in the books...the players had it out with him. This was the same guy that had memorized the list of various lycanthropic weaknesses (silver, gold, salt, ginko plant, whatever) from white wolf, and got upset when they didn't work... (his CHARACTER didn't have the knowledge, heck his character didn't even really believe in werewolves, hah!). He was more interested in complaining than making an occult or lycanthropic knowledge roll. The players pretty much let him have it on that one too.

[zornwil]

Hey D-Man, just noticed your sig, I like it!