House Rule: Modified Trigger

[Sean Waters]

Last thread I'm going to start about this, I promise.  Having had some interesting discussions with Crusher Bob and others recently, I have decided to have a go at House Ruling the 'Trigger' power modifier.  Critiques welcome (I just know I'm going to regret saying that...)

 

Trigger

Variable cost

This power modifier allows a character to set a power to activate in pre-determined circumstances.

 

It takes as long to Set a Power as it would to use the power normally, and all other strictures apply, so Setting an Attack power will normally end your phase, unless it is a Triggered Reaction (see below).  If there are power modifiers that change how a power is activated they must always be observed; for example if the power requires Gestures, those Gestures must be made at the time the power is Set.

 

The power is considered to be used when the trigger is set; that is you have to fulfil all the requirements for activating the power (including paying any END cost), even though the power's effects do not occur until a trigger condition is met.  Once a power is set with a trigger it is referred to as a ‘Set Power’.

 

If you  put a Set Power on another character they are always aware of this, unless the power is bought with sufficient levels of Invisible Power such that they would not be aware of being attacked with the power.

 

You must observe any strictures that apply to a Set Power that is activated so Attack powers require a roll to hit at the time of activation using the combat values of the character at the time it was set, although Area of Effect attacks are considered to go off where they are set and never scatter.  Any activation roll is also checked at this time.  A Set Mental Power is considered to start when activated for the purposes of breakout rolls.

 

The trigger condition must be defined in advance, but there may be several conditions that need to be fulfilled or several alternatives, any of which need to be fulfilled.  The trigger condition is determined when the power is bought unless you have paid to be able to change the trigger condition, in which case it is determined when the trigger is set. 

 

You may buy a defined triggered power that has several settings: for example you could buy a triggered power with a ‘time’ condition and set the time before it is activated.  You may buy a triggered power with several pre-defined activation requirements and set which one or ones apply when the Power is Set.  You should not have more than three pre-defined conditions that can be set.

 

A variable trigger condition can be set to activate immediately (effectively allowing you to use the power in the same way as if it did not have a trigger).

 

A deactivation condition can also be determined when the trigger is defined.

 

Ranged powers can be Set at range, but you do not need a power to be ranged to use it with trigger: once the trigger is set, the distance between the Set Power and the character that Set it is largely irrelevant.

 

If a Set Power is an attack, the target must be set when the power is set unless you Control a Set power.

 

Powers can be triggered by any action that the setting character could detect or that the character would logically have access to.  A bomb (a triggered RKA Explosion) could be set off with a pressure sensor as the setting character can detect pressure, or for some other common and easily understood method, for example a coded radio signal.

 

Set Powers remain indefinitely until the trigger condition is fulfilled at which time the power is activated.  Once a power is activated it goes off immediately, and this may interrupt (but not end) the action of whatever triggered it.  A Set Power takes no time to activate.

 

A Set Power remains where it was set unless Set on a moveable object or a character, in which case it moves with the object or character.

 

If the power is visible in normal use then the Set power is visible until used, but not usually obvious: a triggered fireball does not necessarily glow like a fire while it is just sitting there.  What a Set Power looks like should be determined when the power is bought as it is part of the SFX.

 

A Set Power may be deactivated in a number of ways other than by triggering it. 

1.      If a deactivation condition has been set, this can be fulfilled.

2.      If a character is aware of a Set Power, they can attempt to deactivate or move it; the method of deactivation should be defined when the power is bought or set will depend on the nature of the trigger but must be a reasonably common or straightforward method and is subject to GM approval. 

 

Generally a Set Power can not be reset by a third party, unless it has the +0 modifier when bought.  This allows others to sabotage a Set Power, but also allows allies to change a Set Power or easily deactivate it or circumvent it.

 

You may have an automatic reset.  Generally it takes as long for a power to automatically reset as it did to set it, but this does not require any action on the part of the character.  A Triggered power with automatic reset will reset a pre-determined number of times, or until deactivated.

 

Triggered Reaction

This differs from a normal Set Power in that you have started to activate it (and done all the preparation) but the power is not considered used until you actually use it, so you pay END (if you have to) when the power goes off.  

 

A character may control what happens when a Set power is activated if the trigger is defined that way when the power is bought.  This is referred to as a Triggered Reaction.  Taking a Triggered Reaction requires a zero phase action, so can only occur if the character has a zero phase action they can take.  This allows you to, for example, control the target or power of a Set Attack Power when it is activated, or the direction and distance of a Set Movement Power.  You may abort to control a Set Power, even if it is an attack power.  You can not use a Triggered Reaction to move further than you normally could in a phase or attack more times than you normally could in a phase.  Controlling a Set Attack power ends your phase.  Generally a Triggered Reaction will be set on the character controlling it.  If it is not then the character must have some way to communicate their intention to the Triggered Reaction.

 

Notes

Triggered Powers can be Set out of combat, but do be sensible: buying and setting 64 x 1d6 cumulative Mind Controls to make the first person to attack you your slave is possible but clearly an abuse.

 

This is a Power Modifier and so you can not set it up to allow you to trigger a combat manoeuvre.

 

If you set the trigger on an attack power that allows you to add Strength for your damage you should buy a Naked Advantage for your Strength if you want to add the damage with a triggered attack.  It does not need to be built the same way as the Trigger modifier on the base power.  Setting the trigger on your Strength is a zero phase non-attack action, when the purpose is to add to the damage of another power.  This is also clearly open to abuse.

 

A pre-defined trigger +1/4

A pre-defined trigger that can have several settings +1/2

A trigger that can be redefined at each use +1

Power can be reset by a third party +0

 

Set Power is not visible (but the power will be visible when it is activated if it is normally visible) +1/4.

 

You can only have one Set Power operational at a time +0

You can have 2 Set Powers operational at a time +1/4

Each doubling +1/4

Note that if the triggered power also has the focus or charges modifier, you still need to pay to be able to Set more than one at a time.  A triggered power which is also modified with ‘Autofire’ does not need to buy this modifier to cover the number of times that the power autofires.  An automatically resetting trigger is still considered as just one use of the power and counts to the total you can have Set at one time.

 

Automatic reset +1/2

Slow automatic reset (6 segments or more) +1/4

 

The character controls the Set Power when it is activated +0

[Crusher Bob]

It's hard to evaluate because I'm not exactly sure what your objective is.  In general, when you propose house rules the writeup should go something like:

 

I don't see a way to do X within the rules, so here's some house rules to do that.

Example: how do you 'attach' people to things with entangles?

 

The way the rules currently do X is very expensive/silly/complicated and here's my suggestion on a better way to do that:

Example: how to make a car headlight?

Silly example:

 

 

 The Magic headlight         Night vision (UBO up to 127 addl recipients (+2),             19   9
                              grantable at range (+1/2),
                              Increased maximum range x2 (100 meters) (+1/4),
                              Recipients must remain in LOS (-1/4),
                              Minor Side effects (-1/4) (15 points of sight group
                              images: only to make light), OIF: Magic headlight (-1/2))

 

 

 

Power construct X, allowed by the rules is probably too strong.  Here's my suggestion on how to fix that.

Example: weak entangles are too strong

 

But, what i think is that you've used a hammer on the rules when you should have used a scalpel.

 

Examples of things that worked under the old trigger system that now only have very weak or very strong implementations in your house rule:

 

(exact values of the advantages are from memory, will have to look them up later)

 

Swordmasterguy can automatically counter-attack when you try to sword him.

Specific trigger condition (+1/4)

trigger activation is a non-action (+1/4)

setting trigger is a zero phase action (+0)

 

So, swordmasterguy can counter attack once between his actions.

 

Under your system, he can either counter attack once per combat (because resetting an attack trigger would take up one of his attack actions, and we presume he is better off just swording people normally), or if he bought an auto-resetting trigger, can counter-attack an infinite number of times.

 

-------------

[edit]

Whoops, forgot the 2nd example:

Something similar to attacks of opportunity from DnD 3.X

 

Specific trigger condition (+1/4)

trigger activation is a non-action (+1/4)

setting trigger is a zero phase action (+0)

 

You can attack someone once when they move within your combat reach.  You can only do this once between your actions, so even if you get grown to giant size / wield a weapon with a really long reach / have an army of flying monkeys rushing by you, you can only attack once.

 

Sure you could simply buy auto-reset to get infinite attacks of opportunity, but you don't want it to be that strong.

 

------------------

 

Which leads to:

Combat starts, phase 12

Swordmasterguy1: I attack swordmasterguy2

Swordmasterguy2: Ha! I counterattack your attack!

Swordmasterguy1: Ha! I counterattack your counter attack!

Swordmasterguy2: right back at you.

[...]

Narrator: One shall stand and one shall fall

 

Some other guy in the combat: Well now that that's done...

 

--------------------

 

But wait! I could write some rules about how you can't counter-counterattacks, or something.

 

But that breaks down for the following:

 

There is an electrified floor.  It zaps you if you move across it.  It can zap 'any number' of people who move across it, or if you move several hexes across it, it can zap you several times.

 

So either that's an autoresetting trigger that can hit you several times in a single action, or the electric floor is really many 1 hex sized electric floor triggers, or something.

 

--------------------

 

The whole point of all different time a trigger can take to reset is to allow for 'weaker' versions of an autoresetting trigger.  So you have the choice of: once per combat (non combat reset time), once every time I get an action (0 phase), once every time I get an action, with limitations (1/2 phase, 1 phase), or 'infinite' (auto-reset / reset takes no time).  You seem to have effectively limited choices to 'non combat' and 'infinite'

 

---------------------

 

You've also made a trigger you can determine at the setup cost too much.  You can pick a fixed trigger you can effectively do all the time as a non-action (example: whenever I say 'Desu') which is not much different from a trigger that I can define when I set the power.  Sure the 'desu' trigger can be defeated by darkness vs hearing and grabs, but it's going to be useable all the time in the normal course of play.

 

---------------------

 

visibility:

IIRC, the 'visibility' options in ht HERO rules are:

 

obvious (you don't need a perception roll to notice, unless your sense is impaired in some way)

inobvious (you need a perception roll to notice)

invisible (you normally can't notice the power with this sense)

 

Set triggers are normally 'inobvious'.  I think your version is the same as the default rules, but I'm not exaclty sure.  Please re-write to use the specific game terms.

 

--------------------

 

Remember that a useable in combat trigger is comparable to just buying extra speed.  Since I could buy one point of extra speed and then hold that action all the time.  You've made the 'combat reaction' trigger much more painful to use compared to just buying extra speed and holding an action, and with how you've limited trigger resetting, I can use the one point of extra speed more often (i.e. once a turn instead of once a combat).

[Doc Democracy]

I think the objective is to find a way to facilitate the useful stuff from Trigger and disallow the cheese in a very coherent fashion.

 

I am not sure it succeeds...not Sean's usual insightful best. :-)

 

I think Bob's insight is that, for attacks, trigger is like buying additional SPD. That shows why unlimited trigger can be an issue, you are giving someone unlimited SPD.

[Sean Waters]

So, problems I have with Trigger.  Take a look at this:

 

Disintegrate

5 points of Blast NND: electricity defences (+1) Does Body (+1)

Trigger + ¼

Automatic reset takes no time to reset + ½

Activating trigger takes no time + ¼

Two trigger conditions + ¼ (whatever is grabbed or being grabbed)

 

 

Total +3 1/4 1 (20 active points)

 

Concentration (0 DCV Completely Unaware) - ¾  

Extra time 1 Turn -1 ¼

Two handed gestures – ½

Incantations – ¼

Extra Endurance – 10x END (costs 20 END) - 4

 

Total -6 ¾  (3 real points)

 

What it appears to do, unless they have NND immunity, is completely destroy them: the trigger goes off, they take 1 Body, it resets (no time) and activates again (no time) and they take 1 Body.  Rinse and repeat until they are dead, all instantly.  Boom.

 

Sure it is a real effort to turn on, but the activation conditions DO NOT APPLY when the power goes off because you only need them to set the trigger, not to keep it resetting.

 

An abuse? Yes.  Of course.  Legal though…actually SPECIFICALLY legal.  It specifically says this is OK, so it may LOOK abusive but, well, it’s fine.

[Sean Waters]

I think the objective is to find a way to facilitate the useful stuff from Trigger and disallow the cheese in a very coherent fashion.

 

I am not sure it succeeds...not Sean's usual insightful best. :-)

 

I think Bob's insight is that, for attacks, trigger is like buying additional SPD. That shows why unlimited trigger can be an issue, you are giving someone unlimited SPD.

 

Ever the voice of reason.  That is ONE reason I have issues - I have posted another above.  There's more...

 

Trigger seriously overlaps other builds: the electric floor Crusher Bob mentioned?  Uncontrolled AoE.

 

I don't think giving extra attacks/moves for very little cost is appropriate - buy Autofire, or extra SPD or more Movement Power.

 

Trigger has splurged out from an Advantage that was there to allow you to set booby traps to something that you can win fights with for less then the price of adding Fine Manipulation to your TK - see above.

[Doc Democracy]

I have made very little use of trigger in my games.  As I do most of the building that means it rarely features unless it is absolutely necessary - like in a glyph of warding spell...

 

There is a definite need for something that allows this kind of thing - there also needs to be a way to avoid the excesses explicit in the rules rather than implicitly in the realm of GM control...

 

Doc

[Crusher Bob]

You really don't get to complain about how a power construct that combines several caution and stop modifiers is cheesy... And the proper response to your grab damage trigger construct is something like this:

 

------------

 

Continuously resetting triggers and how often they can go off:

For trigger to go off, it must happen on a discrete event. If the trigger is set to go off on a continuous event, it can go off on the same target at most once per turn.

 

Examples:

The electric floor zaps you once for every hex you move across it. Of if you just stand still, once a turn.

 

The 'teleport me to where I want to go' (trigger: I'm not where I want to go) can only go off once a turn.

 

(Trigger: when someone starts a grab on me) can go off many times in a turn (discrete events) but (trigger: when I'm being held) can only go off once a turn.

 

There probably some better wording to be had in there, and maybe some different ways of limiting auto-resetting triggers that would work just as well, but that seems to solve your 'grab killer' power construct, even if it's just damage, without a bunch of stop and caution modifiers.

 

------------

 

Besides you missed maximum cheese. What you want is a cumulative transform that turns people into your slaves. Killing them is so wasteful.

 

-----------

 

If you don't like the ability of flying dodge and triggered movement to auto avoid attacks, then you could try one or all of the following:

Contested DEX rolls

attacker can semi-retroactively use unused movement to 'chase' trigger move guy and still try to attack him after that.

allow stretching: only to still punch guys who flying dodge or trigger move away from me (-2) or some similar modifier that makes stretching specifically as a counter against this very cheap.

Or some other similar idea to make triggered movement / flying dodge less automatic in it's avoidance ability.

 

--------------

 

Trigger is not just another build for abilities with the uncontrolled advantage. Most notably, triggers are set off by the actions of other people, and uncontrolled powers don't work that way.

[Doc Democracy]

Trigger is not just another build for abilities with the uncontrolled advantage. Most notably, triggers are set off by the actions of other people, and uncontrolled powers don't work that way.

 

While the distinction is a good one, something we should think about closely, the actual example Sean mentioned probably does work better as an uncontrolled AoE.  If you are in the area then you are subject to attack when you enter and then at regular intervals if you remain within it.  

 

There is possibly a think piece that might be done to look at the use of powers that you set up but then only have effect when something happens.  Uncontrolled and trigger are two aspects of that, there may be more.  

 

Am gonna go read some rules before I tackle anything else in this conversation!! :-)

Doc

[steriaca]

Simply put, Trigger only happens once per phase, no mater if the Trigger automatically resets each phase taking no time. This prevents cheese.

 

As for my experience with Trigger? Look at my villain character Ace of Spades. He has two Trigger abilities, Instant Counterstrike (Trigger: Blocking an attack), and Instant Combo (Trigger: When preforming a strike maneuver). Both Trigger only activates once, no mater how many blocks he makes, and the Instant Combo only hits once as it can only follow strike and not itself.

[steriaca]

Opps...tried to find my Ace of Spades post. It is archived? Cause I can't search for it.

[Doc Democracy]

I had to go and read these rules - not familiar with the detail and there is a LOT of detail.
 

Continuously resetting triggers and how often they can go off:
For trigger to go off, it must happen on a discrete event. If the trigger is set to go off on a continuous event, it can go off on the same target at most once per turn.

I think that the limitations you state are reasonable and would mitigate the use of the advantage. I do not, however, see them explicitly in the rules text.

I see no requirement that a trigger is activated on a discrete event. The rules say the power is activated when "a defined circumstance occurs". Nothing in that requires something discrete. I agree that such a requirement would be a good thing.

Neither do I see a limitation on the number of times it may be go off on the same target.

Indeed, the rules provide an example of a riposte. That explicitly indicates that the riposte can be delivered many times in the same segment. If someone attacked with an autofire attack, I would presume that the riposte would be triggered for each attack, explicitly following the rules.
 

The electric floor zaps you once for every hex you move across it. Of if you just stand still, once a turn.

Just for exactitude, I am presuming when you say turn, you mean phase.

:-)


Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Opps...tried to find my Ace of Spades post. It is archived? Cause I can't search for it.

 

You mean this one?

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/90570-ace-of-spades-champions-complete-work-in-progress/ 

 

I searched steriaca "ace of spades" on google - this was first hit.

 

Doc

[Crusher Bob]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, was just making something up on the spot. All the stuff I suggested about triggers in that post was proposed house rules. And I meant 1 per turn (12 seconds) not once per phase (1 second). Once per phase would let auto-resetting triggers operating on 'continuous' triggers still work at 'speed 12' which is a bit much. So figured I'd try nerfing them hard to just happen at speed 1, since we want to encourage discrete triggers anyway.

 

[edit]

Any 'continuous' trigger condition is probably the domain of uncontrolled powers, anyway. I'm not sure of any 'reasonable' builds that would use continuous triggers anyway.

[steriaca]

You mean this one?

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/90570-ace-of-spades-champions-complete-work-in-progress/

 

I searched steriaca "ace of spades" on google - this was first hit.

 

Doc

Thanks Doc.

[Doc Democracy]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, was just making something up on the spot. All the stuff I suggested about triggers in that post was proposed house rules. And I meant 1 per turn (12 seconds) not once per phase (1 second). Once per phase would let auto-resetting triggers operating on 'continuous' triggers still work at 'speed 12' which is a bit much. So figured I'd try nerfing them hard to just happen at speed 1, since we want to encourage discrete triggers anyway.

 

[edit]

Any 'continuous' trigger condition is probably the domain of uncontrolled powers, anyway. I'm not sure of any 'reasonable' builds that would use continuous triggers anyway.

 

Great - I think some of those, as I said, begin to lay down some useful expected limitations on the use of the advantage.  :-)

 

What strikes me throughout the whole of that write up is the repeated use of, if appropriate.  No GM wants to have an argument about appropriateness when a player is resting his whole character design on something that like this...

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

I have made very little use of trigger in my games.  As I do most of the building that means it rarely features unless it is absolutely necessary - like in a glyph of warding spell...

 

There is a definite need for something that allows this kind of thing - there also needs to be a way to avoid the excesses explicit in the rules rather than implicitly in the realm of GM control...

 

Doc

 

I think most people instinctively shy away from abusive builds, and you explain better than i did why I had a go at re-drafting it.  There do seem to be explicit excesses built in.

 

Thinking about it I might remove the 'Reaction Trigger' entirely from my write up and build that another way, either with a different modifier or, perhaps better, a combat manoeuvre that allows you to abort to an attack, albeit at penalties.  In my experience a counter attack is not an 'extra attack', it is a way to exploit an opening or mistake your opponent makes.  In fact it may be best built as a new combat manoeuvre that gives you bonuses but requires that you be using a held action and follow an attack.  Something like:

 

Counterattack +1 OCV / +1 DCV / Damage +1DC : Must be using a held action, must follow an attack on you

 

I like that, because if your opponent can see that you are holding your action they may be wary of attacking you.  Someone will have to blink eventually...but that is more like real combat - it often happens in flurries.

[Sean Waters]

Removed because I could not work out how to use

properly.

[Doc Democracy]

Removed because I could not work out how to use

properly.

 

I was going to explain it to you in detail but when I tried it was insisting in enclosing all the text in a quote - every time I clicked back to WYSIWYG it seemed to add the end quote command at the end...

 

...my bubble has burst, my opportunity to be patronising lost....  :-(

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

I was going to explain it to you in detail but when I tried it was insisting in enclosing all the text in a quote - every time I clicked back to WYSIWYG it seemed to add the end quote command at the end...

 

...my bubble has burst, my opportunity to be patronising lost....  :-(

 

Doc

 

Yeah, I think that was what was happening to me...

[Sean Waters]

I suppose my problem with Trigger in the RAW is that it fills in for other things.  Extra SPD, Combat Manouevres, the application of tactical thinking during combat.

 

We need something like this in the game so you can set up booby traps and the like, that makes sense, but I just get the impression it has become a panacea for all ills and a solution to more or less anything.

 

I mean, if I can build Disintegrate for 20 active/3 real points, and it is entirely legal, in fact, much of the cheese is specifically authorised, there's something that needs seriously looking at.

 

Can anyone give an example of something (other than booby traps) that you can only build with Trigger as it is?  I don't mean a build, I mean a concept, like counter-punching, or dodging or whatever.

[Doc Democracy]

Can anyone give an example of something (other than booby traps) that you can only build with Trigger as it is?  I don't mean a build, I mean a concept, like counter-punching, or dodging or whatever.

 

Now that is just provocative!! 

 

You are asking, on the HERO boards no less, for a way for something to built ONLY one way??! 

 

You can look at the examples in the book and you get the riposte - a reflex attack on anyone attacking regardless if you have an action to do it.  If ten people attack you, you get to riposte to them all.  You may suggest that should NOT be allowed but it is the example in the book.  I do not think that anything else does that apart from damage shield and there is more elegance to the trigger solution.

 

I think the example of the smoke grenades in the text is also a nice example but again comes close to the warning sign in my head.  If you need cover your reflexive action is to pop a smoke grenade - this happens regardless of what you are actually spending your action on, Like a squid spraying ink...

 

I was confused by the use of trigger in the Potion of Giant's Strength example - I could see what the trigger was adding to the mix - the power already has charges and OAF and the trigger is quaffing the potion.  Then I realised what it did was allow ANYONE who quaffed the potion to benefit from the additional STR.  So it is quite a useful way of loaning powers to others - though I think those would, like the potion be best suited to continuing charge type situations - otherwise you get into questions of how long, or who pays the END etc (though I think that you could see SFX that would welcome those questions).

 

 

Doc

[Crusher Bob]

Things I can think of off the top of my head:

 

Things that are similar to damage shield, but have different assumptions or non-damaging effects

 

Examples: the Aliens that have acid for blood, and spray it out when they take BODY damage. This is easy to do as a trigger, not so much as a damage shield. Since the damage shield advantage assumes a continuous effect, like being on fire. Also note that the Aliens spray acid if shot and take BODY, while damage shield only covers h-t-h attacks.

 

Something similar to DnD's 'quivering palm' where you can hit someone, and then decide if you want them to die now, or later. I.e. you set the trigger by hitting the target, and can then set off the attacks effect when you want to. Similar abilities like the "Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique" where the effects of the attack only happen after the target takes some specific action.

 

Can be used to create contingent effects: contingent curses (Cú Chulainn never should have eaten that dog...), Harry Potter portkeys, etc

 

Can be used to represent speedsters can can see and react much faster than normal heroes (e.g. The Flash, Dio Brando, etc), but we don't want to just buy up their speed.

Or certain automatic defensive options example: the spidertank automatically pops smoke if it detects and incoming anti-tank missile. AI car automatically deploys crash foam into the passenger compartment the instant it thinks a crash is about to happen.

 

Some sort of sticky or magnet guy that has swords stick to him when you attack him with them. Since thrown spears also stick to sticky magnet guy, damage shield doesn't seem to do the job.

[Doc Democracy]

This does make me think though that perhaps Damage Shield should be a subset of trigger than the ingenious switch to being a subset of area-effect that it got in the last edition....

[Sean Waters]

 

 

Now that is just provocative!! 

 

You are asking, on the HERO boards no less, for a way for something to built ONLY one way??! 

 

You can look at the examples in the book and you get the riposte - a reflex attack on anyone attacking regardless if you have an action to do it.  If ten people attack you, you get to riposte to them all.  You may suggest that should NOT be allowed but it is the example in the book.  I do not think that anything else does that apart from damage shield and there is more elegance to the trigger solution.

 

Hmm. If we were to apply common and dramatic sense, would we build a character who could hit as often as they are hit? Probably not. I would say this is definitely better built with a damage shield, with RSR to simulate that you do not always hit with your riposte. Sure you can build that with Trigger, but you don't need Trigger to build that, which is my point: what does it do that is unique? Anyway the automatic riposte is built with a natural limit: only works on a successful block - you can only do that so many times.

 

 

 

 

I think the example of the smoke grenades in the text is also a nice example but again comes close to the warning sign in my head.  If you need cover your reflexive action is to pop a smoke grenade - this happens regardless of what you are actually spending your action on, Like a squid spraying ink...

 

 

 

...but, again, what is this? You can pop smoke when you need to. Why should you be able to do that and not take other actions of a defensive nature - i.e. why should you not do this as an abort action? The answer would be that Darkness is an attack action. Again, apply common and dramatic sense tot eh build and you would never allow it.

 

[quote

I was confused by the use of trigger in the Potion of Giant's Strength example - I could see what the trigger was adding to the mix - the power already has charges and OAF and the trigger is quaffing the potion.  Then I realised what it did was allow ANYONE who quaffed the potion to benefit from the additional STR.  So it is quite a useful way of loaning powers to others - though I think those would, like the potion be best suited to continuing charge type situations - otherwise you get into questions of how long, or who pays the END etc (though I think that you could see SFX that would welcome those questions).

 

 

Doc

It doesn't do that. It is a power bought by the person who bought it and does not have UBO on it. All the trigger advantage does is allow you to ignore the substantial activation conditions that you are getting a cost break for.

[Sean Waters]

You are going to have to sort out what that is supposed to look like yourself, because this quote/quote thing is driving me batty.