Help with Generic Heros

[steriaca]

If The Brain's costume is white with an oversized helm, I'll say Narf.

[JmOz]

Do a gender swap and add a skirt...

[JmOz]

5/7 Beast is up.  Leaving Belt and Brick the World's plainest heroes

[steriaca]

Do a gender swap and add a skirt...

Odd...the pic I seen was a guy wearing green with glowing eyes.

[JmOz]

Here are some pics to help that I used as inspiration

[Ninja-Bear]

Jmoz what program did you use to make the characters?

[JmOz]

Art is via Heromachine 3.0

 

Mechanics are via Hero Designer

 

Web site is Wix: Not happy they don't have tables and the HTML plug in is a pain in the but, so some minor formatting errors...

[JmOz]

Made a minor change to Blurr

[Ninja-Bear]

Thx I'll have to checkout heromachine. And I plan to get Hero designer next paycheck.

[JmOz]

3.0 takes a lot of practice imo.  2.5 is really easy but very limited.

[JmOz]

Updated Belt.  I am taking a good look at Brick right now.

[JmOz]

Last one (brick) is updated

[JmOz]

Any coments on the revisions?

[Ninja-Bear]

Look at the first three. I like the builds. What I really like is the explainations at the end. Well done.

[JmOz]

I'm glad.  I was worried that Blur was not that good.  My biggest concern was the complexity of her natural running having No NCM and her powered running having Usable as leaping.  I really do like the use of usable as leaping to represent common speedster tricks of running up a wall or over a body of water (the idea is that she is still making contact with a surface but she has to get to solid surface type of thing). 

 

I am considering making a couple changes on Bolt still.  Get rid of his wrist mounted swinglines and a martial maneuver to add a motorcycle similar to Belt's.  Him and Beast don't have reasonable long range movement powers (50 mph or more), which for beast I don't see a problem with but for bolt...

[Ninja-Bear]

Jmoz iirc these generic heroes are also for newbies so not having NCM for Blur might be less confusing to someone new.

[JmOz]

I'm more concerned with the fact that some of it is NCM and some is not.  I was trying to represent a character who could use NCM as combat movement (that makes sense to me) when she was depowered.  So base running 15m, x2 makes it so "normal" movement is 30 then the limitation on the 30m, but then her Superspeed has x16

[JmOz]

Made the following changes

 

BOLT

• Added Motorcycle (Same as Belt's but not in MP)
• Removed Wrist mounted swinglines
• Removed Martial Strike
• Modified Limitation on Weaponsmith
• Added note about Motorcycle in Powers/Tactics
• Increased size of picture

Blast

• Added Reduced Penetration to Weak Blast
• Bought back 1m of Running
• Changed power description to include use of Weak Blast as a standard attack and ramifications of Reduced Penetration

Beast

• Made changes in Powers and Tactics (corrected misspelling and replaced reference to damage with defense)

[Ninja-Bear]

Jmoz I get what you did with stretching for grapple line. That should have an explaination too.

[Hugh Neilson]

Beast

 

If I’m point whoring, why should Beast (or anyone) have a 26 DEX? A bit higher on the initiative chart, I suppose.

 

Does stacking AP for beginner characters make sense?

 

Paying for 0 END on everything feels like throwing away half the benefits of that high REC.

 

The Hard Claws could be 5d6 AP, 1/2 END. Bump STR up to 31 so it adds 5d6, and we have a 10d6 AP attack. If a target has 20 Hardened defenses, it gets average 15 past defenses. 8d6 AP gets about 18 past defenses, and does way less if the target does not have hardened defenses.

 

The Sharp Claws, to me, sends the message “this will be a lethal game – PCs should expect to take BOD damage pretty routinely and dead enemies will be pretty common”. If that’s not the objective, I’d probably go AP on the KA as well.

 

Belt

 

Is a 6d6 Blast or 4d6 AoE Blast likely to be effective given typical defenses in the game?

 

Why is INT only -1/4 for “Skills Only”? PRE and INT cost the same, modify a suite of skills and have other effects. INT skill levels cost the same as PRE skill levels. Pedantic, as I doubt the cost would change, but still…

 

Seems like he will be a surprising combat mainstay. The Offensive Strike looks weak, but he can have, say, OCV 9 and DCV 13. His defenses are only a bit lower than his teammates. Or toss a Smoke Grenade and go in OCV 11, DCV 11 against an opponent who can’t target.

 

Blur

 

Speed Fu is enough of a “thing” to have a KS?

 

Not sure Power Skill is a great element for new players either.

 

OCV 11, DCV 10 and always keeps her distance – probably also surprisingly combat-effective, especially with better REC than Beast.

 

Blast

 

I’m thinking forget the range and skill levels and just use my Wide Beam. That means being close in, which is a bit nasty given the low DCV, but those Defenses are pretty high for this bunch, and a rapid retreat to take a couple of recoveries is always an option.

 

That KA is going to be tempting for a player. All that BOD, and he same average STUN as the Weak or Wide Beam blast. Maybe it should not be presented first on the list, at least, especially as the skill levels imply she’s not as good at this one.

 

Both here and for Belt, I question the limitation for Reduced Penetration – seems more advantageous than drawback.

 

Bolt

 

Martial Arts damage looks one DC too high with a 15 STR. The Crossbow Club boosts it another 4d6, not noted in the suite.

 

Though described as a mook buster, his DCs are comparable to the rest of the team, and he can do 11d6 HTH (though his low DCV makes that chancy – unlike Blast, he doesn’t have extra defenses to compensate).

 

Definitely firing the Flash right off the bat – my teammates can then mop up all the blind opponents easily. The Glue Arrow will take care of any with enhanced senses or Flash Defense.

 

I’ll stay a long way from combat where possible – range levels plus AoE mean I don’t need to be close. Not quite “mentalist sniper”, but close.

 

Brain

 

50 PRE and the rest of the Supers have 13 – 15…PRE attacks all the way, at least in opening combat! And I can take that action at Any Time, so before the 35 DEX opponent moves, thank you.

 

My mOCV vs DCV? Not worth it in most cases, so I will stick to the PsiBlast and always hit. TK Blast will get 8 STUN past the low end 20 defenses, and the PsiBlast will average 17.5 since no one seems to have mental defenses anyway. 10d6 for the others? Maybe telepathy against prisoners, otherwise largely forgettable.

 

Tempted to play Mentalist Sniper, but I need to be close for that PRE attack…decisions, decisions. I guess I can flee once I PRE attack once.

 

I’d explain “Psionic Code of Conduct”.

 

Probably not for the rookies, but I kind of like smaller dice large Cumulate limit mental powers.

 

Brick

 

Better defenses AND better REC than Beast? So how will that play out?

 

Beast attacks 6 times per phase, for 8d6 (as written) versus 15 defenses (halved) = 13 STUN per hit, and he hits pretty much every time (OCV 9 vs DCV 5). 78 STUN still leaves Brick standing at the end of the turn, and Stunning Brick is almost impossible statistically.

 

Brick puts all levels in OCV, and can Strike Beast 62.5% of the time, for 17 damage past defenses on average (STUN unlikely, but much more possible). Average damage per turn is 42.5, so he might get lucky and get a first turn KO.

 

But he’s way better off to Grab. 50% chance to hit, and once he does, game over.

 

Now, put Brick up against Belt. Belt uses Offensive Strikes with his HA for 10d6 (5 damage past defenses on average), OCV 7 (vs DCV 5), DCV 15 (Brick can still hit on a 3…). That fight may never end.

 

Overall

 

They seem much more comparable, but it seems like there’s limited variance in DC (10 to 12) and OCV (9 to 11, ignoring Brain and factoring in likely level application), and a lot of variance in defenses (20 to 30) and DCV (5 for Brick, 13 for Belt).

 

I find this a problem in Hero Supers – boiling down to mechanics, it’s easy to get everyone having a 5-6 SPD, OCV and DCV within 2 points, 12 DCs and the only variance is SFX. The further we allow them to diverge, the harder evaluation becomes.

 

Be interesting to see how they actually play out. Brain opening with a PRE attack and Bolt with the Flash seems like the rest of the team can readily mop up adversaries.

[JmOz]

Will play around with Beast, droping to half endurance might be an idea. (even full endurance)...

[JmOz]

Hugh thank you for the detailed post, I truley appreciate it.

 

I will take a look at Brick & beast

​RE: Belt: Yes some of the attacks in the MP are not going to be useful against most Super villains, but useful v. minions and such...

 

The -1/4 for Int instead of the higher was a nod on how "int" based his skills are...and yes the math breaks down to a pointless exercise on the actual cost. (normaly I just put skill levels in the MP and go with it honestly...)

 

RE: Brain: Assuming Ego 15  on a 10d6 roll is a average 35 or +20, I think that is significant...against higher ego or MD the math changes...I also usually make my mentalist with lower dice and huge cumulative.  Looking over Champions Complete only 2 villains do not basically fall under that math (Esper and Black Harlequin)

 

RE" Blast: yes Red Pen is in a way more an advantage than not, I admit to some point whoring there...

You will note that on Full blast she is going to run out of END fast...yes recoveries is an option but...

[JmOz]

As I said last night i am relooking over Brick.  I am concerned about his movement.  Really feel that he has to much right now.  I looked over Beast last night and made some changes but have enot postted them as of yet

[Hugh Neilson]

​RE: Belt: Yes some of the attacks in the MP are not going to be useful against most Super villains, but useful v. minions and such...

4d6 over a large area, maybe. But 4d6 against a thug is still pretty ineffective. Depends on their design, but compare to Blast's Wide Beam, Bolt's Explosion, etc. I think Belt will be feeling pretty ineffectual.

 

RE: Brain: Assuming Ego 15  on a 10d6 roll is a average 35 or +20, I think that is significant...against higher ego or MD the math changes...I also usually make my mentalist with lower dice and huge cumulative.  Looking over Champions Complete only 2 villains do not basically fall under that math (Esper and Black Harlequin)

I don't typically find mental attacks all that effective - +20, sure, but Breakout roll for that 13-15 Ego is 12- so it will typically have no impact.

 

You will note that on Full blast she is going to run out of END fast...yes recoveries is an option but...

I can notice she only lasts a bit over a turn with the KA, and doesn't hit as often with it, and will average 35 STUN with it, so she may as well use the Wide Beam for the same average STUN, less END and no issue hitting, probably hitting many targets. But a new player won't. With that in mind, I would not present it as the first attack on her list. It also sets the precedent for Bloodthirsty Bob to have a similar attack, but "Take no Prisoners" psychs. I find the prevalence of KAs sets the game's tone to some extent - if the game is intended to be non-lethal, I'd avoid KAs for the most part.

[JmOz]

Good point on Blast.  will look deaply at brain....  also have some ideas for belt's blast discs...