BobGreenwade Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 I'm not sure how well this link will work for someone not "logged in" to the BioMedLine system, but give it a look: 21st century nanotechnology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 Rats, I have to be logged in. i'm nervous about that, since I read too much Orwell as a teen. Still, replicators for real? Even very primitive ones would be very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted November 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 I'll just cut-and-paste the abstract then (that's generally considered OK among these professional journal publishers). It's from Trends in Biotechnology, Volume 21, Issue 8, August 2003. Diatoms are single celled algae, the 10^5–10^6 species of which create a wide variety of three-dimensional amorphous silica shells. If we could get them to produce useful structures, perhaps by compustat selection experiments (i.e. forced evolution of development or evodevo), their exponential growth in suspension cultures could compete with the lithography techniques of present day nanotechnology, which have limited 3D capabilities. Alternatively, their fine detail could be used for templates for MEMS (micro electro mechanical systems), or their silica deposition systems isolated for guiding silica deposition. A recent paper has demonstrated that silica can be replaced atom for atom without change of shape – a step towards the Star Trek replicator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 Cool. Granted, this bacterial culture would seem to be limited to creating objects out of silicon, which would preclude it making me a hot fudge sundae. Still, very cool. *Brainstorms to think of a way to use silicon-manipulating germs* I wonder if we programed them correctly we could have them go to mars and make silicon domes for space exploration. If we ever went to mars. Which would be pointless. Oh, never mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted November 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 Originally posted by Sociotard Cool. Granted, this bacterial culture would seem to be limited to creating objects out of silicon, which would preclude it making me a hot fudge sundae. Still, very cool. It doesn't have to be limited to silicon. There are, for example, several species of diatom that absorb metals out of water -- even toxic metals, to which these particular species are immune. (Most are then eaten by various types of planktivore; in the best cases these are limited to clams, oysters, and similar creatures. This is how nature minimizes these toxic metals in the food web.) These species of diatom could be used to create metal objects -- and other bioengineered species could create things of other materials. *Brainstorms to think of a way to use silicon-manipulating germs* I wonder if we programed them correctly we could have them go to mars and make silicon domes for space exploration. If we ever went to mars. Which would be pointless. Oh, never mind I think we could. And we might. And it wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Originally posted by BobGreenwade It doesn't have to be limited to silicon. There are, for example, several species of diatom that absorb metals out of water -- even toxic metals, to which these particular species are immune. (Most are then eaten by various types of planktivore; in the best cases these are limited to clams, oysters, and similar creatures. This is how nature minimizes these toxic metals in the food web.) These species of diatom could be used to create metal objects -- and other bioengineered species could create things of other materials. I think we could. And we might. And it wouldn't. Facinating. Do the metals simply remain in the diatoms cytoplasm or does it add them to its silicon shell? Now if we could get these things to use metals such as iron to build things, a whole new ball park opens up in space. I could see them making an electromagnetic railgun on the moon to facilitate shipment of resources to earth (helium 3 comes to mind). But then I pulled that idea straigt from an old scifi book i read some time back (can't recall the name). With that resource, lunar colinization could become a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted December 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by Sociotard Facinating. Do the metals simply remain in the diatoms cytoplasm or does it add them to its silicon shell? I'm not sure; what I've read (which has been mostly very specific journal reports) has been unclear on the topic. It may be that some hold the metal in the cytoplasm, while others add it to the shell -- and still others just pass it through as waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by Sociotard Cool. Granted, this bacterial culture would seem to be limited to creating objects out of silicon, which would preclude it making me a hot fudge sundae. Still, very cool. *Brainstorms to think of a way to use silicon-manipulating germs* I wonder if we programed them correctly we could have them go to mars and make silicon domes for space exploration. If we ever went to mars. Which would be pointless. Oh, never mind How about growing a three dimensional large scale intergration computer chip? Circuit boards and IC's are basically two dimensional, adding a third dimension would reduce average distance between components by about 18%, with an equal gain in speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraterMaker Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by Sociotard Facinating. Do the metals simply remain in the diatoms cytoplasm or does it add them to its silicon shell? Now if we could get these things to use metals such as iron to build things, a whole new ball park opens up in space. I could see them making an electromagnetic railgun on the moon to facilitate shipment of resources to earth (helium 3 comes to mind). But then I pulled that idea straigt from an old scifi book i read some time back (can't recall the name). With that resource, lunar colinization could become a good idea. "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", Robert Heinlien (sp?) An awesome book- for the uninitiated, the Moon is an old prison planet now being used to dump political undesirables, and our heroes (an incarcerated engineer, the prison complex AI, and a really smart and smooth elderly guy) plan a revolution on the Moon to declare independance from the Earth Nations and take their place amongst the U.N. It's an excellent example of how to run a secret revolutionary gang (if you have a very powerful AI, natch) and has a lot of hard science about the Moon worked enjoyably through the story. On Topic - Would this be easier than using Nanomachines to do the same thing? I've allways had a soft spot for using biological systems to do the same thing as technological systems can do.. -CraterMaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by CraterMaker Would this be easier than using Nanomachines to do the same thing? I've allways had a soft spot for using biological systems to do the same thing as technological systems can do.. -CraterMaker Where do you draw the line between an engineered microorganism ans a nanomachine? Call these bio nanomachines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Carman Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by CraterMaker "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", Robert Heinlien (sp?) An awesome book- for the uninitiated, the Moon is an old prison planet now being used to dump political undesirables, and our heroes (an incarcerated engineer, the prison complex AI, and a really smart and smooth elderly guy) plan a revolution on the Moon to declare independance from the Earth Nations and take their place amongst the U.N. It's an excellent example of how to run a secret revolutionary gang (if you have a very powerful AI, natch) and has a lot of hard science about the Moon worked enjoyably through the story. Manny (the engineer) wasn't a prisoner, he was born there. The place was a prison colony, not just a jail. And you left out Wye Knott, the third member of the top cell of the revolution. One thing I always liked about that book was the part where Manny tried to explain humor to the computer. (paraphrasing) Some things are funny-always. Others are funny-once. Use it once and you're a wit; use it twice and you're a half-wit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted December 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 I finally got a good look at the full article in question. The process is apparently useful for creating small metallic devices for nanomachines. Diatoms with the appropriate frustule [exoskeleton] shape are either found or bred, and their frustules heated to high temperature for a period of time -- the bellwether experiment heated to 400 degrees Celsius for four hours in an atmosphere of magnesium gas. The silicon is replaced atom for atom by the metal; in this case the silicon oxide is turned into magnesium oxide with no change in the frustule's shape. The list of possible devices includes "microcapsules for medications, water filters (sieves), catalytic substrates, sensors, optical diffraction gratings and actuators, or templates for any of these" -- essentially, vital parts for nanomachines. This isn't quite as exciting as I'd originally assumed, but it does open many doors of possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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