How does decapitation work?

[LoneWolf]

If you are using the impairing/disabling rules it is suggested that an unimportant NPC that takes a disabling wound be considered dead.  If the disabling wound is a head shot count it as a decapitation.  For an important NPC or PC if a head shot does enough damage to kill the character when at full BODY in a single attack count it as being decapitated. These only apply to decapitating in combat.   

 

Out of combat you just have to figure out the defense and body of a corpse, which is likely different from that of the character.  For the most part a human sized target body can probably use 10 BODY for this.  A character’s powers may modify this.  Given enough time and a weapon capable of damaging the corpse you can hack the head off anything.          
 

[Gauntlet]

14 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

I have never assigned a specific mechanic to decapitation, it is just a description used in combat.  If a player does a butt-load of damage and their opponent is killed by the blow, I might describe it as decapitation.  Or getting cut in two, or some other colorful demise.  The only time it is really important is if you are trying to kill something that can only be killed with decapitation, in which case they would have to declare a head shot before doing the butt-load of damage.

 

I definitely have to agree with you. You don't need rules to state that the killing attack cut someone's head off from a head shot, or pierced their heart from a chest shot, or caused their intestines to slip out from a vitals/stomach shot. That's all just part of the role-playing. When someone dies the GM should give a good description, especially if that person is an enemy leader or a powerhouse. It should be part of the role-playing, not part of the rules.

[LoneWolf]

If a creature or character has a weakness to decapitation then having some rules for said decapitation is probably a good idea.   Vampires in fiction are often killed permanently if they are decapitated.  If this is not a factor than using the narrative approach is fine. 

[Gauntlet]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:45 PM, LoneWolf said:

If a creature or character has a weakness to decapitation then having some rules for said decapitation is probably a good idea.   Vampires in fiction are often killed permanently if they are decapitated.  If this is not a factor than using the narrative approach is fine. 

 

Then I would say the best way would to state that the damage would need to be double the total body of the target to the head with attacks that are stating that they are to decapitate. 

[LoneWolf]

I suggested basically the same thing in an earlier post.   The book suggested that an impairing hit to the head kills an unimportant NPC or creature.   Any hit to the head that instantly kills the creature could be considered a decapitation hit if the has any specific weakness vs decapitation.      

[Gauntlet]

Of course it would depend on what type of weapon is being used.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I mean you can technically decapitate someone with a hammer but you're gonna have to be Thor to do it.

[Gauntlet]

And also what if the attacker is using a spear???

 

But on a different note, Edward Scissor Hands would have an even easier time.🙃

[Christopher R Taylor]

Depending on the length of the spear blade, you could in theory slash with it.

[LoneWolf]

I would say that if you can manage to totally destroy the head it counts as being decapitated.  

[L. Marcus]

Remember Bandobras "Bullroarer" Took and Golfimbul.

[Doc Democracy]

If I was running a game where it was an appropriate part of the genre, then I would have a built in way to accomplish this.  It should not be easy and it should be dramatic but it should not, I think be a requirement to hit the head and do double the total BODY of the enemy without (even with the x2 damage from the head hit, this means putting 10 BODY through defences).

 

Right off the top of my head (sorry) I would want there to be a set-up roll, a delivery roll and a damage roll.  So the set-up should be reasonably easy but it means a phase, in combat where you are not doing a lot.  I think it should put you at a disadvantage, so you do not do it lightly all the time, I am thinking a melee equivalent of brace really.  Then there is the head-shot roll.  it should be difficult but I would offset the targetting penalty by 2 or 3 due to the set up and give it the same kind of penalties as a haymaker. If that all works, then I think a successful attack should be enough to deliver that coup de grace to a monstrous opponent.

 

Now this means that I am not relying on a damage roll.  I am looking to set up an opportunity where I can deliberately seek to chop off the head of an opponent.  It means that either I stun the opponent in some way, giving me the chance to do the set up and attack without them reacting or moving away, or I have manouevred them such that they cannot get away or I have some kind of distraction (possibly helpful colleagues) that prevents the opponent noticing and taking evasive action.

 

It means that, in set pieces, the decapitation of a prisoner is relatively simple.  There is no messing around with damage numbers etc.  It works with anything in melee range for long enough. 

 

However, this would only be for those genres where such things were absolutely fundamental to the genre, or limited to dramatic moments (the GM might announce the presence of such moments - like Eowyn taking the head of the King of Angmar's flying steed in RotK).

 

Doc

[LoneWolf]

If you are trying to decapitate someone who is not in combat that is fairly easy.  If the person is out of combat, they are at 0 DCV and the penalty to hit is only -4 for a headshot.   That means they have an effective DCV of 4 including the penalty for the called shot.   They can also use maneuvers and skill levels to increase the damage.  If they do not have a martial art, they can use a haymaker.   That adds +4 DC to the damage.  So, even a 10 STR non-combat NPC using the equivalent to a short sword can get the damage up to a 2d6+1 KA.   A PC or combat focused NPC will probably get that up to around 3d6 or higher.   That means the non-combat NPC has about a 13% chance of being able to decapitate a 10 Body target without pushing.  If you get the damage up to 3d6 the chance of decapitating the target is about 40%.

 

If decapitation is supposed to be the way to kill a specific creature than that should be done using a complication/disadvantage.  For example, if you want vampires to be able to be killed by being decapitated give them vulnerability (x2 Body) to head shot with edged weapons.  If that is the case the chance of the non-combat NPC of decapitating a 10 Body creature with a short sword is about 44%.  

 

In combat decapitation should usually be fairly difficult.  In all fairness if the PC’s can do it to their targets, it should also be able to be done to them.   So, unless this is the monster's weakness it should not be an easy thing to do.  If it is the monster's weakness, then the vulnerability I suggested above still work fairly well.   Sure, you do have to take the -8 penalty on your chance to hit, but the vulnerability means that a successful head shot from a PC or combat trained NPC is more than likely going to be an instant kill.   
 

[Gauntlet]

Just a side note:

 

The penalty for a hit location is a penalty to the attacker's OCV, not a bonus to the defender's DCV. The reason this is different is because if the defender wishes to block or missile deflect then the OCV they are going against is reduced.

[Gauntlet]

I wonder how you would set an OCV Penalty for being even more location based then head, like gouging out someone's eyes or pulling out their tongue.

[LoneWolf]

Probably need to link another power to the attack.  Gouging out someone’s eyes or pulling out their tongue is going to give them a permanent condition which would need a transformation attack.  

 

You could also use the disabling rules for that.  So, instead of an OCV penalty you have to do enough damage to disable the location.  If so, you simply assign the appropriate complication or penalty to the target.  
 

[Gauntlet]

2 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Probably need to link another power to the attack.  Gouging out someone’s eyes or pulling out their tongue is going to give them a permanent condition which would need a transformation attack.  

 

On a Superheroic game, definitely, but probably not on a heroic game as they cannot purchase powers, so I guess disabling rules would be the way to go. I believe I have seen someone put it as a -10 for an eye gouge before, but I would think that might even be a bit low. I know there are martial attacks for flashing someone, but that is only to temporarily blind them, not permanently.

[LoneWolf]

If you are using martial maneuvers, there is the disabling element.     The head is a valid choice of limb.    

[Gauntlet]

29 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

If you are using martial maneuvers, there is the disabling element.     The head is a valid choice of limb.    

 

Yes, but was talking about if the attacker is going for the head and is looking for a specific disabling of the eyes, not the head in general. 

[LoneWolf]

I see no reason you could not design a martial maneuver to target the eyes with the disabling element.   Make the damage killing damage and it should work fairly well.  Like any maneuver with the disabling element the user gains no benefit from the fact it targets the head but does not take any penalty for it either, including the OCV penalty for a headshot.  

 

Special effect should cover the fact it blinds you.  

Edited August 10, 2024 by LoneWolf

[Gauntlet]

6 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

I see no reason you could not design a martial maneuver to target the eyes with the disabling element.   Make the damage killing damage and it should work fairly well.  Like any maneuver with the disabling element the user gains no benefit from the fact it targets the head but does not take any penalty for it either, including the OCV penalty for a headshot.  

 

Special effect should cover the fact it blinds you.  

 

Are you looking to purchase it as a Power?

[LoneWolf]

No, I am talking about building a custom martial maneuver as per HS Martial Arts.  

 

 Something like Eye Gouge 4 pts -2 OCV -0 DCV 1/2d6 K Disable.   Eye Gouge automatically targets the eyes and if it disables the character they are blinded.  The target can make a CON roll to prevent the blindness from being permanent.  

 

As with any attack with the disable element it gains no benefit from striking the head and takes no penalty to hit other than what the maneuver has.  
 

[Gauntlet]

I'm not sure what you mean, what attack has a Disabling element?

[LoneWolf]

Disabling is an element that a martial maneuver can have.  It is on the list of elements you can use to create custom maneuvers.  A maneuver with the disable element always targets a limb, but gains no advantage or penalty form doing so.  The damage of the maneuver is not decreased or increased because of its location.  For example, a joint break does not reduce the damage even though it targets legs and arm, nor does it take a penalty for attacking a specific location.   

 

In this case it takes not penalty to hit even though it targets the head, and does its damage is not adjusted for targeting the head. 

[redsash]

Depends on the genre (of course).

 

In Stoker's Dracula, they pry open the coffin in the last light of dusk and, with some effort, Harker beheads Dracula before the beast can stir with the huge kukri dagger he's been fondling for half the book.

 

Similarly in Stephen King's Salem's lot, nobody even really considers confronting the vampires hand-to-hand. Dig them up during the day or you don't have a chance: regular folk need that O DCV and double damage to even try.

 

In that case I would rule that Vampires aren't particularly vulnerable to beheading (or, e.g., rowan wood stakes pounded through the heart) but that such a blow bypasses their supernormal Physical Defense or Damage Reduction (by -1/4 Limitation in the Power definition) and fills the required condition to negate the "Resurrection" ability.

 

In S01E02 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a fleeing teenager bumps into Vampire Jesse and drives him into Xander's (poorly held, badly targeted) wooden stake, turning him instantly into dust. Also in that episode, Buffy decapitates a minor vamp with a thrown cymbal from the drum set at the Bronze. Buffy and the other Slayers regularly dust vamps with thrown stakes. That scans more like a vulnerability to me.

 

Also I note that Whedon's TV vamps, especially the tougher older ones, generally have to be taken by surprise or Stunned by extensive fisticuffs before "dusting off".* So it's still a tough called shot as far as that goes.

 

 

* An effect they adopted, at great CGI expense, to avoid having to show teenagers regularly disposing of bodies. Genre!