slow on the outside, fast on the inside

[bloomann]

the guy i want to play has a field that surrounds him distorting space and time. To people outside the field he looks like he's moving in slow motion, much slower than speed 1, he moves maybe once a minute, but if anyone, or any objects enter the field the tables are turned and the character is wizzing around at a speed of 12 while draining others speed. How do I build this?

 

also as a side question, how much strength would it take to pull up a medium sized tree?

 

thanks

e

[farik]

Re: slow on the outside, fast on the inside

 

Originally posted by bloomann

the guy i want to play has a field that surrounds him distorting space and time. To people outside the field he looks like he's moving in slow motion, much slower than speed 1, he moves maybe once a minute, but if anyone, or any objects enter the field the tables are turned and the character is wizzing around at a speed of 12 while draining others speed. How do I build this?

 

As a GM I wouldn't let you have the described special effect instead of appearing very slow it would make more sense for the character to be a blur of activity within his field. I mean what does it look like when he hits somebody repeatedly does it look like they are hit once but then suddenly fall down as a bloody mess while in his field the victim is still being beaten in slow motion? If you really want that special effect you'd need to purchase Images always on with no conscious control since the GM would dictate what is being shown not you. Although this could also be used as a limited retrocognition usable by others. As far as the speed effects I'd just buy up your SPD to 6 sell down your movement to 1" and just for completeness slap extra time on your swimming. The Images make it unnecessary to buy invisble power effect but if you didn't use the Images effect then you'd need to purchase Invisible power effects even though it will be of limited usefulness since the effects lead to an easy assumption of what's going on. To slow your opponents make a Drain SPD damage shield AoE 1 hex.

 

My $0.02

 

 

Originally posted by bloomann

also as a side question, how much strength would it take to pull up a medium sized tree?

 

thanks

e [/b]

[zornwil]

Sounds like he's SPD 12 with IPE and with "can only act in immediate radius of 1 hex" (or less). The latter limitation may be further qualified as "except once per phase".

 

However, there's a lot about these SFX I don't understand. How does he affect (if at all) characters outside his radius? Do things affect him normally from outside the radius?

[Rebar]

LOL

 

I'm not sure what you are envisioning this looking like to those on the outside, but the image in my head is vivid.

 

It's Goldfish-in-a-Bowl-man! You can spend hours watching him swim lazily around in a circle...

[badger3k]

On the strength side note, I'd go about 30-40, depending on what you mean by a "medium tree" - anyone strong enough to pick a bus can probably uproot a tree (maybe with effort, though - even roots on weeds can be tough!)

 

The other stuff, though, I'll have to reread and think on that. Why does the character slow down light outside the field (and presumably slow down him as well), while actually speed him up? Its an interesting concept - just curious about the idea behind it.

[The Souljourner]

Yeah, I gotta say, I don't understand why he appears to be slow. If you could explain that part, it might help us figure out how to model the abilities.

 

As for uprooting a medium sized (say 12" diameter) tree, realistically I'd think you would need more than 40 strength. Here's the thing... the roots hang on to the soil like nobody's business. I've watched my grandfather pulling up stumps, and even after we dug up a ton of dirt and hacked through a ton of roots, not one, but TWO bulldozers failed to pull the stump out. Using a pulley to triple the power of a single bulldozer and anchoring the bulldozer to another tree, we finally managed to do it.

 

To be entirely realistic, it shouldn't be possible if attempted by a normal sized person. You'd thrust yourself into the ground long before the tree moved.

 

However, to give a little heroic flavor, I'd let it be doable, but it would take a lot, and it would be directly proportional to the diameter of the tree. Let's say 5 strength per inch of diameter. That means a normal guy could pull out a 2" diameter tree. That's actually a little generous, but it's supposed to be heroic, right?

 

-Nate

[Farkling]

I'm curious about a more in depth expanation of the efects of the time distortion as well. Why DOES he appear so slow, and just how fast is he within his bubble? Do his perceptions outside the bubble see a speedy world or a slow one or a paralyzed one?

 

As for the tree....I'm lazy. DEF+BOD of tree, x5 = STR to uproot. In combat I'm in a hurry, so that's what I'd use.

The character is braced/set if he hugs the tree to heft it. Haymaker mods are more than sufficient for me to make up the DC's for a charcter making an effort. 10 STR over the required I figured should be all that's needed to uproot it. That's 3 more trees the same size after all.

[Rebar]

DEF+BOD of tree, x5 = STR to uproot. In combat I'm in a hurry, so that's what I'd use.

 

OK, but how do you determine the DEF+Bod of a given tree? Probably a factor of the diameter of its trunk.

[Sociotard]

I was trying earlier to create the ability to generate hurricane force winds, about 130 MPH. Steve said that a 0 str change environment equates to about 20 mph. that comes out to roughly 2.7 doublings, or (moving 5 str up the chart from 0 for every doubling) 13 to 14 STR. However, not every tree blows down in a hurricane, so I guess I really don't know.

[Farkling]

I thought there were three sizes of trees listed on the "Breaking Things table...did I remember things wrong?

 

I guess if not, you could construct a tree with the environment table... its got those widths and DEF approximations.

 

I'll check my book later tonight when I get home.

[Jinx999]

It's an illusion

 

The whole point of this is that the guy looks different from a distance than what he really is. It's an illusion. Use images.

[bloomann]

slow motion joe

 

I'm sorry it takes me so long to reply, I'm just not connected everyday...

 

better explination is due:

the idea springs from a stephen king short story called the Jaunt, and basically it's about a teleportation device which is instantaneous to any on the outside but anyone actually going through the device will take an eternity to reach the other side.

thus my fishbowl guy is the same, anything entering the field will be infinitly slow while he is infinitly fast, but while outside the field he appears not to be moving...uh yeah problems why wouldn't he appear to be a blur of activity to anyione standing outside the bubble, well I just didn't think of it like

that...yes this is wonky science...

thanks for helping though

[farik]

Well it sounds like the most appropriate way to simulate the short story would be with an area effect EDM portal with really harsh parameters on the extra-dimension.

 

For a super hero or villain though I'd use linked NCC Images to whatever major constant power you decide to give them.

[bloomann]

thanks for input

 

I've been going over my original concept for Slow motion Joe :

he wears a belt that generates a bizarre field which distorts time and space. The field covers a 5 meter circle with Joe as the center. The field is visible and slightly pink...

wonky science: Joe "apears" to be moving increadibly slow, say 1" or action every minute, but if anyone or anything enters the field they will see Joe as a blur of movement.

for me the concept is that Joe's field generates a dimension in which space/time is distorted. People seeing joe on the outside will percieve an image or "snapshot" of what joe might have been doing in the past (1 movement/action every once a minute).

any one entering the field is actually being teleported to another deminsion where Joe is infinitely fast and can drain the speed energies of any objects or person.

For example, a cop fires a gun at joe (joe is a villan for the instant) who appears to be moving in slow motion, the bullet enters the field and becomes innert. The cop might then see the bullet immoble while Joe's image is "slowly" doging the bullet.

or, a speedster hero decides enough is enough and runs into the field to do a move by on Joe, as he enters the field he feels his energies drain as he becomes immoble, while joe laughs at him and taunts him before clobbering him.

On the outside people would see a strange ballet of slow movement probably which would take several minutes to unfold. The speedster immoble, joe's features slowly distorting into a grimace, joe saying something to the speedster, although to anyone outside the sphere it will sound like an audio k7 at super low speed, they will see another minute later Joe raising his fist, the fist connecting to the jaw of the hero, the hero slowly crumbling to the ground (minutes have gone by) as joe then ploughs on ahead.

The beamer of the group fires a blast as well, same effect as the bullit earlier, Joe slowly, ever so slowly side steps the blast as it enters his field.

Now, thats the basic mechanics of his power, a pinkish field, area effect which immobilises any movement, drains speed, while inside the bubble Joe is going at a speed of 12 easily.

Not sure how this would work against mental attacks but it would be possible that the field might distort these attacks as well giving Joe some mental defense or a backlash effect against the projector...

is this explanation any better?

[Rebar]

Your description of the SFX begs the question of synchronization.

 

If, from the outside, the fight with the Speedster appears to last several minutes, the beamer can be firing his EB into the field while that combat appears to be in full swing - not several minutes after it appears to have ended. So, even though Joe appears to be swinging his first punch at the speedster, he now appears to be having to dodge an incoming EB at the same time he's just swinging his first swing.

 

How is this possible if, internally, Joe has landed his punch, KO'd the Speedster, looted his body, propped him up in an embarrassing pose, then sat down to have a smoke - all before that EB actually penetrated his field?

 

 

Basically, at some frequent interval, the imaged actions of the character must reconcile with the real actions or you've got real trouble.

[Farkling]

I'm with ReBar on that. It'd be more in keeping with the logistics of your description to ONLY have snapshots appear to the people outside the field.

 

Cop fires at Joe. Bullet enters field and stops.

Snapshot:: Joe is looking at bullet.

Snapshot:: Joe leaning aside. Bullet is on other side of field. Energy Beam is impacting the field from a different direction.

Bullet exits field.

Snapshot:: Joe leaning way back in a Matrix style dodge effect. Solid continuos energy beam fills bubble over his chest.

Energy pulse exits field.

 

Vernor Vinge's theoretical stasis fields have an effect similar to that.

 

In wierd science terms, the "both worlds" effect (incredible speed and slowness) would cause an ever increasing delay at the interface point of the field. A time distortion directly on the dimensional interface that causes an interdimensional "friction" if you will. Gradually, this will build up until something breaks, either the field generator, the anchor into our dimension, or time itself.

 

Sounds like a player searching for an uberpower capable of stopping anything the GM might come up with. Especially from your decription of the speedster. If a spedster cannot lay a hand on you, and your reflexes/speed are that high, then nothing can harm you. Where's the play/fun/risk? What will concern this character?

 

Two things that require some additional thought::

1) How does the normal world appear to him? It should practically be standing still. how do you plan for him to communicate with ANYONE ?? How can he interact with the world beyond his tremendously versatile combat monster effects?

2) What woul dhappen if he was bracketed by napalm or had a building fall on him? Caught in a flash flood? Fell off of a cliff? What impact does the distortion field have on this sort of real world construct?

[bloomann]

more slowness

 

This post is somewhat long, but I'm just putting off cleaning up the kitchen, so forgive me, thanks though for your input...

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from Rebar :

 

Your description of the SFX begs the question of synchronization.

 

If, from the outside, the fight with the Speedster appears to last several minutes, the beamer can be firing his EB into the field while that combat appears to be in full swing - not several minutes after it appears to have ended. So, even though Joe appears to be swinging his first punch at the speedster, he now appears to be having to dodge an incoming EB at the same time he's just swinging his first swing.

 

How is this possible if, internally, Joe has landed his punch, KO'd the Speedster, looted his body, propped him up in an embarrassing pose, then sat down to have a smoke - all before that EB actually penetrated his field?

 

 

Basically, at some frequent interval, the imaged actions of the character must reconcile with the real actions or you've got real trouble.

 

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I know this is a weird concept and goofy science, and that's why I posted this because I'm not really too sure how it works either, but I see this big dumb thug with a time distorter belt who is wearing brass knuckles and ploughing through heros and I know that it could be built the way I see it, after all this is champions rules...

Tyhe way I imigine it : anything entering Joe's sphere is slowed down, Joe percieves any projectiles the way the Flash would percieve any projectiles. And that's the weird part of this concept, try imagining the Flash moving in slow motion, dodging bullits and such. Anything entering the bubble is entering another dimension. Things slow down to Joe's time frame. So we must imagine that if Joe apears to be moving super slow, than anything entering the bubble is moving 12x slower. Actually now that I'm thinking about it Joe's power is pretty stupid, becaues he's a sitting duck. Everyone would be able to take pot shots at him until a mass of bullits and EB's filled his bubble. Of course, he might be able to dodge everything, perhaps his bubble should be built as missle deflection concerning projectiles...

Remember Slow motion Joe has Flash like powers but only in a limeted range (5" hexes)

 

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Farkling Said :

I'm with ReBar on that. It'd be more in keeping with the logistics of your description to ONLY have snapshots appear to the people outside the field.

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That's exactly what I've always meant, people see him moving in slow motion from the outside, while inside the bubble he's like the Flash...everything entering the field will be moving based on Joe's 12speed and speedster tricks (like the Flash)

 

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Farkling Said :

 

Vernor Vinge's theoretical stasis fields have an effect similar to that.

 

In wierd science terms, the "both worlds" effect (incredible speed and slowness) would cause an ever increasing delay at the interface point of the field. A time distortion directly on the dimensional interface that causes an interdimensional "friction" if you will. Gradually, this will build up until something breaks, either the field generator, the anchor into our dimension, or time itself.

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I'm not really worried with scientific concepts, or even weird scientific theory, I'm using comic book science which simply dictates "If I can imagine the concept or power, no matter how ludicrous or silly, I have the right to create it"

 

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Farkling Said :

 

Sounds like a player searching for an uberpower capable of stopping anything the GM might come up with. Especially from your decription of the speedster. If a spedster cannot lay a hand on you, and your reflexes/speed are that high, then nothing can harm you. Where's the play/fun/risk? What will concern this character?

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You're right! I am trying to come up with concepts and powers that are strange and original and might make a fun night's gaming, allow me that pleasure please! But I don't think Slow Motion Joe is an uberpower. First off I made a bad choice using the example of the Speedster being clobbered so easily by Joe. Joe's only real power is that he is like the Flash inside a small area, while outside he moves like a snail. He might be tough like a common thug and probably has dirty infighting with brass knuckles.

Let's say he's fighting the JLA for example, The game: Joe is making a bank hiest, Flash is zipping around and sees the cops firing on Joe who is dodging bullits in slow motion. Flash says "looks like a wierd speed field thingy, right up my alley," and flash zips in to do a move by on joe, when flash enters the field he immediatly has a speed drain.(dunno 6D6 speed drain, we would have to figure out how fast a bullit travels than figure out what it would take to "drain" the speed of a bullit to where Joe percieves the bullit moving in slow motion, now give me help on this, remember I'm here asking for advice) The Flash begins slowing down, but it's still the Flash who was moving at a speed 12, he sees Joe who is moving like the Flash should be moving, incredibly fast. They begin to fight, Joe at first is hard pressed because the Flash is still super fast although his speed is quickly drained, so Joe lands an upper cut which KO's the flash. By this time (the cops have ceased firing for fear of hitting the flash who has slowed down) Green Latern arrives on the scene. He makes a quick assessment of the situation and tries to attack Joe with an EB, Joe dodges the EB. GL then thinks to himself, "Hmmm, this calls for some serious diagnostics" and simply encases Joe in a force bubble around Joe's own speed bubble. Joe, who only has a 16 strength can't punch through GL's force wall. He's stuck. Batman would eventually figure out how to difuse his belt, or the belt would run out of energy. So Joe is not really an Uber-anything. Just a thug with a belt that I'm still not sure how to do.

 

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Farkling Said :

 

Two things that require some additional thought::

1) How does the normal world appear to him? It should practically be standing still. how do you plan for him to communicate with ANYONE ?? How can he interact with the world beyond his tremendously versatile combat monster effects?

2) What woul dhappen if he was bracketed by napalm or had a building fall on him? Caught in a flash flood? Fell off of a cliff? What impact does the distortion field have on this sort of real world construct?

 

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Joe must see the "outside" world in fast forward. Everything is wizzing by at phenomenal speeds, but he doen't really care because he has a psychological limitation "overconfident with belt" and he thinks he can dodge anything entering the sphere.

If Joe wants to communicate with anyone he could turn off his belt, or if it's a friendly teamate he could simply allow the person to come in his bubble, although that person will be speed drained! He could write something on a pad of paper and leave it behind him when he slowly moves away...

As for area blast effects I was thinking the same thing...Can the Flash or other speedsters "dodge" area effects, I guess we just apply the same rule. If it was a flash flood, I could imagine the water slowly appearing from all sides around his bubble and slowly filling the bubble up, Joe would probably die a horrible prolonged death by drowning, knowing he could never run or swim to safety before the water fills the bubble completely, he could though turn off the belt and perhaps the worst of the flood would have gone by and he might survive...(more unlikely events have happened to even dumber characters in real comics so why not)

 

 

Thanks again for challengling input and critisicm, this has pushed the concept and is helping me figure out somewhat where to go with it...

[The Souljourner]

Here's a thought... just give him the belt that gives him Spd 12, but make it also limit him to only 1" of running. If you also wanted to do an area of effect speed drain, you could do that too.

 

Give him missile deflection, and you're about done.

 

As for the slow/fast thing... I think the concept is just logically flawed, and probalby should be reworked. You just can't be fast and yet look slow.

 

-Nate

[Guest riprock]

Here's the deal: The base body of the wearer is in its normal state fifty times every second, for .01 seconds. His body flickers with instant teleport effects within the sphere of effect. He must teleport 100 times per second. But 50 of those teleports must take him away from the base location, and 50 of those teleports must return him to the base location.

 

Thus he seems to be moving very slowly.

And if you shoot a bullet at the base location, you will probably do normal damage, at least -- the bullet might tumble, and a slow bullet will probably do extra damage. A shower of buckshot from a shotgun would do lots of extra damage.

 

Now, if you try to punch this guy, you will be confused by the flickering teleports. But just shoot him and he'll drop.

[farik]

Alright here's how I'd roughly build the power if a player described wanting the effect you've expressed.

 

1. Buy up as much SPD as possible in a focus (the belt) and take the limitation Side Effect (set effect always occurs) Drain users running.

 

2. Link a SPD Drain damage shield AoE 1 hex with personel immunity to the extra SPD and take the limitation Side Effect (set effect always occurs) Images "Distortion Effect"

 

3. Link Missile deflection "all attacks" to the extra SPD.

 

There now your character is able to interact in his limited area with amazing speed at the expense of not being able to see outside his effect while at the same time people outside the effect will see things that don't make sense but may help them fight the opponent since it may reveal him leaving his headquarters even as the "bubble effect" walks into the bank.

[bloomann]

flawed yet stubborn

 

Thanks for the input guys,

 

fakir said:Alright here's how I'd roughly build the power if a player described wanting the effect you've expressed.

 

1. Buy up as much SPD as possible in a focus (the belt) and take the limitation Side Effect (set effect always occurs) Drain users running.

 

2. Link a SPD Drain damage shield AoE 1 hex with personel immunity to the extra SPD and take the limitation Side Effect (set effect always occurs) Images "Distortion Effect"

 

3. Link Missile deflection "all attacks" to the extra SPD.

 

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this seems good to me too, I guess I just can't get my idea across though, this fast slow thing. but thanks for pondering it with me....

[Andrew Cermak]

It's an interesting effect you've got there, but it's actually kind of the opposite of what "The Jaunt" describes.

 

As I recall, "The Jaunt" described a method of teleportation that was physically instantaneous but mentally seemed to take an eternity (perhaps because it speeds mental processes up so much that even the fastest events seem to take forever). Anyone who went through the Jaunt awake immediately appeared on the other side, but was hopelessly insane from the trip. So the only way to make the trip safely was to do it asleep.

 

So if your character creates a field that mimcs the Jaunt Effect, people watching him should see him moving very quickly, while he sees himself as moving very slowly; everything outside the field would appear to him as being moving more slowly yet, perhaps to the point of not appearing to move at all.

 

As it is, though, that's just a SPD bonus with a unique special effect. I can understand the urge to add something more to it.

[Andrew Cermak]

BTW, if I was going to model the Jaunt as a weapon, I'd just do it as a few inches of Teleportation, Usable vs. Others, Linked with a massive Mental Transform (sane person to insane person), No effect vs those unconscious or asleep (-0).

[bloomann]

jaunting

 

I see what you mean with the jaunt effect, actualy you're right, my guy power's are not at all like the jaunt, it's just a guy moving in slow motion inside a field, when anyone enters the field they realize that they are moving even slower and Joe is flash type speed.