schir1964

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power I understand completely where you are coming from Dust Raven. We may not agree on some of these minor issues, but then again, we don't have to. (8^D) I'll give your words serious thought.

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Thought about that, but decided it against it. Makes for more interesting possibilities. (8^D) GM doesn't require that adder for potential differenced based on Longitude/Latitude/Altitude differences. If it was a sci-fi genre, probably.

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Okay, I'll go over the Effect once again. Character has an affinity with a specific object. This has allowed him the power to be able to Teleport (SFX) this item to his current location. The item can be anywhere on the planet and he'll still be able to bring it to his location (barring other powers preventing it). This object will be an ordinary everyday object. The object's attributes are of no consequence since the GM will control the usefulness of this object. The object itself can be used by anyone and it's uses could change over time but not beyond it's original conception. Again, this is being monitored by the GM. That's it, that's all this character can do with this power. Bring this object (of a certain mass) to him. If for some reason the mass of this object increases, he may lose the ability to Teleport it. Highly doubtful. Not sure how many ways or times I have to explain the effect for it to make sense. Maybe I just don't know how to explain it. Nice word usage (dichotomous). Again, this is probably because I didn't explain things well enough. I said AP Caps aren't being used here. Sure there are certain RP concerns, but those are just guidelines. If the GM likes the concept/power and it isn't unbalancing, he'll give those points you need for that concept/power. However, one thing though, the is not an "Absolute Effect", since the Teleportation (Power) itself has built in restrictions, such as Blind Teleport. This character will also have to deal with those consequences since he might not have room for the object in question. Dependiing on what it is. Exactly! And that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to build this power based on, "The Rules As Written". There are many good reasons for trying to do this even if the campaign has modified the rules, but that's a whole other discussion. That's good to hear. I'm willing to continue discussing (sarcasm aside) as long as you want. Sometimes people use sarcasm to try to get under the skin of people. I find it amusing since such tactics rarely work on me. (8^D) Perhaps I'll come back at some point and detail out the specifics when it no longer matters. Perhaps you might find that my choices were valid for what I was trying to do after all. (8^D)

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Exactly! I agree with everything you just said. It's up to the GM to determine if such items are even worth stating out. A millionaire's normal car gets destroyed, the character simply buys an other out of pocket. The new car might have different stats than the previous one, but if it's not making and impact within the campaign as far at the GM is concerned, why bother. (8^D)

Got a separate question now. Concerning Teleportation and UAA. Can UAA be used normally by the character himself, can the character use the Teleporation normally? Here's the reason I ask and I'm somewhat confused. The FAQs says no to this. But Teleportation says that it can be used to escape a Grab, but that the attacker is not teleported with him unless the character has purchased UAA. Is there additional modifier that is needed to do this, or have I misread something here. I've been flipping the pages so much recently my head is spinning and I'm not sure I've read everything thoroughly or correctly. Thanks.

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power And I believe I said as much also to Dust Raven in a previous post. However, since this is and exception to that, why is it so hard for you help me nail down the proper Advantages/Limitations, even if it is too expensive for what it delivers. I'm not asking anyone to change thier campaigns or to even use this in thier own campaign. Just needed help getting the Advantages/Limitations right. Sorry to have offended you. Not intentional, really. (8^D) - Christopher Mullins

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power You've yet to give me a reference from the 5th Edition or the FAQs that say that the GM can not use the Optional Money system in a Superheroic campaign. Without some reference from you to back up your claim, you are guilty of your own charge. It's your opinion until you can prove otherwise. I gave my references for the Optional Money System and as far as I can tell, it says the GM decides whether he wants to use it in his campaign. Not "only heroic" games. If I'm wrong on that, please give a reference and I'll gladly proclaim here that I was wrong and ask forgiveness. So far, you attitude has been very antagonistic towards me and my requests. This does not help you convince me that you are right in the opinions you've been giving. Sorry to have offended you. - Christopher Mullins

Steve: With UOO advantage the ability to transfer that power to something else is automatically no range and requires the Ranged advantage to transfer it from a distance. Is this also required for UAA? If I apply UAA to Teleportation, do I have to touch the rock to teleport it? - Christopher Mullins

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Well, it seems this has boiled down to attacking the person instead of any real discussion about trying to meet the SFX of the power. Hawksmoor: Not sure why you continued to keep posting here? You seem intent on telling me and my GM how they should run thier games. Hugh: You get some small applause from me for Sarcasm. Very well done. Unfortunately your suggestions won't help in defining the power to meet the SFX I specified. (8^D) For the others you tried to help, thanks. I guess I'll have to as Steve Long about the UOO and UAA advantages being cumulative. I'll continue reading in case someone has something contructive to say. - Christopher Mullins

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power I said it has merit since it might make the power even closer to what I had imagined. I was willing to sacrifice the 1 KM limitation walking. I had never occured to me to use the Variable Advantage to get the additional flexibility that I had originally intended. It might increase the cost of the power, so what? What I was opposed to was having to stat out some object that really doesn't need to be stated out. Had nothing to do with points, other than everyone else requiring it did because they want to use Summon.

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Your Variable Advantage idea has some merit... hmmmm.... have to think on that.

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Thought I would repost what I had for easy reference. Anyway, here's what I have so far. Based on everything I've read in the 5th Edition and the FAQs, this will do what's necessary. Teleportation: 6" (12 Points) 1 Fixed Location (1 Point) Increased Mass x32 (25 Points) Useable As Attack (+1) Megascale [10000 Km] (+1 1/4) Scale Down Megascale [1 Km] (+1/4) Can Only Teleport To Fixed Locations (-1) Summary: Teleportation of one unique object to current location. Character can teleport object up to the size of a large semi truck and trailer. Character can not teleport himself to object. See UAA advantage. Teleportation takes a full phase since it is Non-combat Only teleport. See Megascale Advantage. Fixed location allows object to be teleported from anywhere on planet. [1 Km - 60,000 Km]. Character is unable to teleport object within 1 Km. Has to walk. (8^D) Total Cost: 61 Points The increased mass is overkill, once the actual object is chosen, then the mass will be determined and it will be reduced to fit, and the cost will drop with it. Comments?

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Okay, now this is useful, maybe I missed something. I thought that UOO and UAA were handled as separate Advantages? Are they cumulative? I'll have to recheck this. Although UOO automatically gets No Range, UAA takes on whatever range the power has that it is applied to. At least that is how I read things. Maybe I'm wrong. Please give me a specific reference if I'm totally wrong on this. Why two Fixed Locations? I thought I would need one? If need another it's only another point, but curious as how you came to this. Like you, I realized the Fixed locations would take care of perception problem nicely. Hmmm.. interesting, I thought the Can Only Teleport To Fixed Locations (-1) took care of this nicely. Where did you get this limitation? Custom or from a Hero Book? Yeah, we're on the same page. That's very close to what I came up with. Yeah, I'm familiar with them. Based on this, Teleportation should be used over Summon, just because it costs more. I don't agree with this. If one is simpler than the other and they are both "equally valid" then simpler one should be chosen, but that is just me. However, since I think Teleportation is more valid than Summon, it doesn't apply here. But I greatly appreciate the reference. Thanks. Is there anything else you need to help validate or invalidate my construction?

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Precisely, and that's what I came up with and defined on the second page of this thread, but it was basically ignored and no one bothered to even comment on it. Check it out and let me know what you think. (8^D) That will be under the GM's control completely. Just like a normal skateboard a character can buy in the store. The GM will control just how much game effect it will have. That concept is what got people sidetracked. (8^D) The unlimited points makes people think that the players can come up with whatever they want as far as power scale. That's not what happens here. The players still have to the powers approved. It's a pass or fail thing based on just how unbalancing the power is, regardless of points. You can have 30 AP power that's more unbalancing to a campaign than a 60 AP power depending on certain combinations. What I was trying to explain is that although the power may be considered way too expensive for what it actually does game wise, in our game, the player isn't penalized based on points as long as it fits the character's concept and won't unbalance the game by it's sheer concept to start with. Is any of this making any sense or am I just babbling now? (8^D) - Christopher Mullins

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power And yet someone else who doesn't understand. Ok. I'll try again. I understand your confusion. You think just because the GM doesn't put and AP Cap that this allows the players to just make theiir characters so they can take over the universe. Contrare Monfrare. (8^D) If the GM thinks a contruct is going to mess up the game straight out, regardless of points, he tellls the player to go back to drawing board. We have mature players who don't try this kind of stuff usually. (8^D) Does this help? - Christopher Mullins

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Ok, instead of playing the game today which I can do ad infinitum, I'm just going to boil it down to one difference you and I are really discussing Hugh. Which happens to be simply GM opinion and not a actual rules item. There's one example that we both latched onto which we and all other GM's make their own opinion on and decide how they will handle it in their game. If the character has a normal car as described by the Money Perk, the GM has to make the descision, for his campaign. Will I force the player pay points for this vehicle or will I let the character simply pay money for it. That's what the GM has to decide, there is no rule that says the the GM should, ought, must make this character pay points for this vehicle even if it sometime benefits him during play. My GM and I both think it's not important enough to even bother with. If the character starts using it as combat vehicle or a headquarters information station, then it will be dealt with in game time. The car get destroyed the character has to replace it by buying another with his money, insurance costs, etc... If the character doesn't want to deal with those headaches, he can stop relying on the car so much, or he can pay points for another vehicle that will be able to withstand being the focus of the villians. An even more extreme example of this would be a character that always hides behind a wall for protection during a battle. The character gets the benefit of the DEF and Body of the wall. It is the players standard tactic. Notice I said player and not character. Now the GM can decide how to handle this several ways. He can deal with it in game terms, gets reputation for cowardice, not a good team player, will leave team members in the lurch, and so forth. He could deal with in the way I can only presume you would, and make him pay points for the wall since he will always find something to hide behind. The GM could force him into position where he can't hide, but that's another whole discussion. You can run your games however you like Hugh, but you haven't convinced me nor have you really given any evidence that car must be paid for by points, not by the rules at least. I know that it seems inconcievable to many GMs out there that someone would spend 30 to 60 points on something that in their view is worth only as a 1 Point quirk. Hey, that fine, I understand that. But to say it is wrong for them to do that because... it's not worth that much, well that's quite out there also. In the same tone, there aren't that many GMs that would not have point limits on powers either, but then again that's how our game is run at this point. I asked for help making sure I was using the right Advantages/Limitations for a Teleportation power that did xyz. I get a couple of people who helped me, and then I get besieged by others saying how I'm doiing it all wrong. I didn't ask for people to tell me how I or my GM ought to run the campaign. (8^D) Okay.... well, I'll have to put a disclaimer the next time I ask for help here. Seems some people are bit too tense about what they think is right. Sorry to have frustrated you. (8^D) Dust Raven, KA, thanks for being there. (8^D) - Christopher Mullins

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power The object I have in mind is not portable, however, even a portable can be swiped, lost, misplaced, etc, etc, etc...

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Again, you presuming a lot from something I never said. Read all above for answer. And if the value/cost, in combat, of the object is zero? The power should be zero? See Dust Raven's posts above for answer. Precisely! By george I think he's got it. Supports my point actually, maybe I'm missing something. And since this isn't what I'm talking about. It has no relevance for this discussion. Might as well said that the sky is blue. Ok. Ah, I see where you are missing it. It's actually not about what the object does, since the GM won't allow for any shenanigans using it. It's about the character's fixation with the object and wants the ability to bring it to him whenever he wants. "Reason From Effect", precisely, thank you proving my point. That's what I've done and that's why I'm convinced Teleportation is the most appropriate power to build the power from. The character wants the reliability of bring the favored single object to him. It's a normal mundane object that could easily be destroyed beyond repair in combat, just like any other normal mundane object. The object will not give him any special abilities in combat. It might and probably will have some benefits outside of combat. I have my reasons for not mentioning the object in mind. But now, I can see that if I did mention it, most here would become fixated on how that object could be used in combat, even if it meant it's destruction for all time. (8^D) Well, no one has really tried to convince me of anything other than how the GM should handle his campaign. No references, sporadic bits of logic with no real cohesion to it. Well, can't say you guys didn't try. I was all ears. But I just don't get it. Obviously most you don't get it either, at least where I'm coming from, and that's probably my fault for not explaining it right. Thanks, it's been very entertaining. (8^D) I'll continue checking this thread if anyone else has comments.

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Actually, the object I had in mind would not be useful in combat, but may have some usefullness out of combat. But the GM will obviously smack down the character if he tried to do what you are suggesting, especially for the long run. So, no harm, no foul. I don't know how your games go, but in ours, lots of roleplaying does happen out of combat. In fact, we tend roleplay out of combat more than in combat, so maybe that's where you might not understand where this is coming from. So far, you are still tallking a GM Campaign issue instead of actual rules issue.

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power BULLSEYE!!! Exactly, except the character wants this reliability with it and helps with the whole character background window dressing thing. A really expensive quirk, but that is what the character wants. And since there's no point limit to worry about. I just needed to help in getting the Advantages/Limitations nailed down to make it proper game mechanics wise. Didn't realize I was going to be crucified for it. (8^D)

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power I think you've got it nailed down Dust Raven, and under other circumstances I would agree with you 100%. The main difference is that the character want's to be to get this item to him whenever he wants under just about any circumstance, GM allowing. That's what the character is paying for, that reliability. And I'm sure you're thinking that it's a waste of points and in most games it would be, but in this game, points aren't a limiting factor, so it doesn't matter how many points the power will be. So main limiting factor becomes just how much mass is trying to be moved since the item in question won't have any major effect other than GM plot or window dressing for the character. I'm glad at least a couple of people understand. (8^D)

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power Really? The skateboard is no longer the character's favorite skateboard? Wrong, sorry, you lose. Still his favorite skateboard, Teleport still works. That's a Campaign issue thing decided by the GM. Try again. Wrong again, it's not a focus. It's no more a focus than a character's normal home, based on Money Perk, is a focus. Again, GM Campaign opinion. Wrong again, the Optional Money Scheme is decided by the GM for his Campaign. That's the equivalent of saying that in Heroic Games everything must be purchased with Money, even Powers, which is not true. Try again.

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power KA!!! Who told you that you could use Telepathy on me! (8^D) I think you've really help explained a lot of things. Thanks. I noticed that you and others that know me have not questioned my reasoning on this. I guess you guys know where I was coming from to begin with. I'm not about to go into any more details on this power since I don't know if my players are lurking around. Your example is good, except in this case, once the character decides what book he wants, that's it, that's all he'll ever be able to bring to himself. If it's a Dictionary, then it will be that specific dictionary from that point on. And no, I didn't find your post to be argumentative in the least, but it did help drain some of my frustration away. (8^D) Again, thanks. (8^D)