Vanguard

Sounds like what you're looking for are the "Blow Through" rules in Dark Champions, pg 192.

I'll join my voice with others here. This isn't a super-heroes complication/disad.

Like Brother Jim and Tigereye, I have a couple of characters that see the need, on occasion, to take some one out. But certain specific criteria have to be met before the gloves come off and it"s on.

Creating a character, not even going to call him a hero, with this complication is just to give you an excuse to kill while still being "in-character". Not only that but as assault said, it severely limits your options while playing him.

Not sure if this is a "How to" or a game philosophy question. If it's the later, can you please move it to Hero Discussions or Dark Champions for Herodom at large?

Now on to the question.

I was going over the military packages in Dark Champions and a thought occurred to me (okay, it occured a while ago but I just now decided to ask). Do you have to buy the proceeding packages to "work up to" the desired one? I mean, do you have to purchase Basic Training before you buy Delta Force or Force Recon? Do the advanced training packages already incorporate the skills etc from Basic Training and thus aren't needed?

Thanks!

I've used Precise Sprayfire in play on a number of occasions and I've seen what it can do: IMHO it probably should come with a Caution, possibly even a Stop sign.

You're not kidding.

I use to run a character named Recoil that was a heavy gunner. He pretty much ALL of the Autofire skills and well, you're right in thinking that some of them need the Caution sign on them.

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

5ER73-74. Instead of 1/2 DCV for a Sweep or Rapid Fire, the penalty is -2 DCV if you have TWF.

 

JoeG

Strange. Either that was dropped from 6E or it is really buried/not spelled out.

6E dropped it. Same with CC. Both have language for TWF that basically says that the character is subject to all rules for Multiple Attack.

 

JoeG

However, The Advanced Players Guide reintroduces the -2 DCV as an optional rule.

Re: Invisibility only usable in shadows or darkness

I would say the power does deserve a limitation just because every time the character uses darkness power you would be able to see him or at least where the darkness is. That can be a very tempting target for AOE attacks.

True.

I think it would really depend on the circumstances and how the power and/or created darkness would interact. As for being a target every time the power was used, again, it would depend.

If you're using the ability as a "ninja" type thing, you're not going to be creating darkness out in the middle of the street during broad daylight. You'd find a nice quiet little corner or alley to do so in. Or at least a place where it wouldn't draw attention.

I guess it just boils down, like everything in hero, to situation and/or intent. Honestly, the only reason I added the "but" portion was a knee-jerk reaction to your comment about being able to create their own darkness. I've been in, and sat in, on too many games where the GMs have let the players create power limitations that were easily circumvented by either their own, or their teammates abilities.

Re: Invisibility only usable in shadows or darkness

I second this.

Thirded with a "but". And that "But" is "if I'd even give them a limitation for it at all".

I mean, a limitation is only worth points if it limits the power. And if you can create your own darkness and thus negate the limitation, the power doesn't seem to deserve a point break.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Okay, I'm interested in both games.

Never played Cyberpunk but I did play Shadowrun 1.0 and 2.0 . . .

Thing that's got me confused is, what type of game, exactly is Shadowrun Online? There's a spot for Shadowrun Online and Shadowrun Returns but they both seem to be the same game. . . .

Re: Adversarial Answers

As someone who often plays as a GM, I think it is worth saying that sometimes there are good reasons for not allowing certain powers or builds that you don't want to explain to the other players because it would ruin the story.

 

For example, as a GM I'm often not keen on anything that involves time travel/retrocognition as it tends to make a lot of plots difficult to manage.

 

Bear in mind that the GM is playing the game too, and, usually, having to put in more homework than anyone else at the table. If they don't want you to have a VPP, well, why should your concept of how the game should go be more important than theirs?

 

I would expect a GM to have good reasons for decisions, but then I'd expect anyone to have good reasons for decisions. I would not necessarily expect the GM to have to explain his reasons to the players.

 

Good gaming is often about trust. Trust your GM, and GMs, trust your players. Good gaming is also about having a collective goal - to make the game enjoyable. Hero gives you immense choice over character build, so if certain avenues are closed to you, there will still be a functionally infinite number of other options. Sometimes I get the impression that because you can build almost anything in Hero, some people get a sense of entitlement that they should be able to, or their creativity is being stifled. I disagree: at worst their choices are being limited, but limiting what is allowed or possible is actually a stimulant to creativity. You only really need creativity when you can't do whatever you like.

 

I'm going to step into the realm of heresy now. A number of the people I regularly play with are not that bothered about the rules for character creation. Several of them are there because it is an enjoyable excuse to spend time together. When I am running a game I will often create characters for them, in fact that is the norm. If someone wants to create their own character, fine, subject to oversight, but when I create characters it is with an eye to the overall team effect, synergies and conflicts. I genuinely believe that you can have more fun that way. It is not a mad control thing: I'm usually surprised by HOW the characters I built are used, and how different they wind up being from what I had imagined, but that is because the players have used what they have creatively.

 

I expect the same in return too: when I am playing and someone else is running the game, I'm perfectly happy to be given a pre-generated character. I know it won't take long to make it mine: an accent or mannerism, a turn of phrase or even a particular approach to combat all provide character and depth that numbers on a page can not.

 

So: should a GM be able to say 'No'?

 

Yes.

Bah . . .

"You must spread reputation around before adding to Sean Water's again" . .

Consider yourself +1ed.

Re: "Can normally reach" Limitation

I had honestly never really noticed this limitation before (and I own the book it's in).

I know, it's amazing what's buried in our books that we don't even notice on occasion.

Re: "Can normally reach" Limitation

I would also consider the sfx here as well. What you are basically doing here is using one power (teleport) to represent an ability that while not strictly a teleport functions mechanically in game in a similar fashion. So a speedster using this rule might have a different set of restrictions than Batman, who might have different restrictions than someone else (We let our speedster do the lock pick, since he can do it REALLY fast and even bought skill levels to counteract the "doing things faster" penalty. But he didn't buy flight, in contact with a surface so getting up to the top of a cliff isn't possible for him. Batman can use his grapple to access the high areas as part of this power, but we rule that any lock would take him too long to pick to be effectively a "teleport" so he doesn't get to go through locked doors, etc.)

 

Both these examples would have the same limitation, at the same value, but actually represent different restrictions to the person using it.

I get what you saying but (there always is one) if you purchase, in this case Vanishing Teleport, you shouldn't need to have any other type of movement power to let it work.

And none of your restrictions to the two heroes make sense to me.

In your above example, you're speedster shouldn't need "flight in contact with a surface" to use his Vanishing Teleport because he should be "fast" enough to zip around the building, up the fire escape and onto the roof. Or, if no fire escape, then into the building and then up the stairs and onto the roof. If there was a locked door in the way, he could easily deal with it thanks to fore thought on the players part and the Lockpicking skill with the +levels for "really fast".

With your Batman example, why would batman need lock picking if he could just use his grapple to get to the top of the roof and thereby bypass any locked door that might be in the way?

In any case, if I take the power again, I'll just talk it over with the GM and see what he says on the matter. He'll probably rule it as "situational" so sometimes it'll work and sometimes it won't. Which is cool . . that's what limitations are for.

Re: "Can normally reach" Limitation

::nods:: It's been a while since I've read the description. (Been out of action for a bit) . .

I wasn't sure if the power, specifically, allowed for the/a roll (if appropriate) during the move or if it was something the GM had to determine. (Although it's all based on what the GM will allow in the end . . )

Re: "Can normally reach" Limitation

Huh, seems I'm getting the same responses I'd thought about.

And that's pretty much "It's situational/up to the GM". Which is all good but I was kind of hoping for a more "And thus it shall be done thusly".

Silly me, I forget it was Hero and it just doesn't work that way.

Thanks folks.

Re: "Can normally reach" Limitation

Thanks for the reference Bloodstone.

What I'm curious about, is do you have to take in account locked doors, keypad access etc. Or, like some of the higher end apartment buildings where you have to be buzzed in, could you use your "Ninja Vanish" to get there. I mean you *could*, hypothetically, get there . . . but there are/would be obstacles to doing so. So would it negate your ability/power?

Some powers/abilities, especially in Dark Champions, have some variation of the "Can normally reach" limitation.

My question to Herodom is what, exactly does this entail?

The way I look at it is if, for example, I have a Teleport (which is normally what this Lim is applied to) that has enough range to reach the top of the building behind me as long as my character could logically get there then he can poof to the roof top.

Now, thing is, should I be taking into account things like locked doors, maybe "no roof access" stairs, etc? What about the feasibility of climbing the outside of the building?

Or should this be a Lim that's entirely in the hands of the GM on whether or not each location fits within the Lims constraints?

Re: Is Speed underpriced?

Gotta go with Bolon here.

I haven't played Champions in a while but I do remember sitting back and telling my GM that I think I'd figured out what our problem with Speed (and Dex) Creep was.

Most players, when creating a character, don't ask themsleves "How much faster than a normal human is my character?", the instead ask, "How much faster than a normal Superhero is my character?"

So, no, I don't think Speed is too cheap/under-priced. I think players are using the wrong baseline for creating their characters.

Re: NBC Revolution

Ok' date=' that makes a little sense then (dont care what guns, just as long as knowledge thereof didnt mysteriously disappear).[/quote']

 

A bit late to the party but just watched the preview and it piqued my interest so I'll be watching the premier and most likely give it a few episodes to see if it grabs me . . .

 

I didn't see the pistol but I did catch the rifle and it does look like flintlock or musket so they didn't lose the knowledge, it's just not as widespread and the guns aren't as high tech as we're used to now.

Re: Horror Hero

The nice thing about doing the Teaser scene is that you can use it to motivate the players. If you make it clear that anyone surviving the prologue will represent the available pool of reinforcements' date=' and possible replacement characters (possibly with a promised XP Bonus, say +25, for the sudden PC upgrade) in the event of casualties among the primary characters (Edit: This also plants the idea that PC lives aren't, in fact, sacrosanct). Gives 'em solid motive to keep their mooks alive, thus increasing investment.[/quote']

 

Again, only if the player(s) in question can be motivated that way.

 

I still like your idea/suggestion though. Not trying to discount it or anything, if that seems like what I'm doing.

Re: Horror Hero

There are some Stupid GM Tricks one can pull to increase player attachment to NPCs

Having your players write them up is one.

Another I've posted before (which can tie in with the first) is the "teaser" scene, where you have the players play a squad of lower powered characters right at the beginning so you can give a nice preview of the opposition and hit them with the gloves off. Any survivors of the scene can be brought in later as NPC's

Those ideas might work . . . and were something we didn't think of.

Granted, we've got one player that just wouldn't care either way because it wouldn't be "their" character . . just a throw-away basically. Of course, that's where my other post about having the right players/mindset comes into play.

Re: Horror Hero

The problem with using Red Shirts is that PC/Players expect them to die.

When we first started the original Gatecrashers game, we had a bevy of Red Shirts of that exact reason.

And because of the cliche of the red shirt, even having one walk off and get ganked off camera or even in front of everyone, loses impact because "that's what red shirts are for".

Re: Flash attack that affects self as well as target.

No Range + Area Of Affect Radius without Hole In Middle

Or Personal Immunity.

Don't know if this is a question for you Steve or one more suited to Herodom in general.

With both ranged disarm and ranged trip, the STR of the attacked is figured from the DCs for the weapon fired. My question is whether or not the target suffers damage from the actual shot as well as the Disarm/Fall effect that the maneuver grants.

Re: state of the art comm-suite

Perhaps. Still totally dependant on the campaign. The -10 makes it functionally invisible' date=' but still beatable. IPE makes it actually invisible needing a specific power purchased with the sole goal of negating the IPE. I know I'd rather game with a GM that chose the first choice over the latter. Either way a -10 does not equal -100% in all campaigns, especially superheroic ones.[/quote']

 

Exactly. It's game dependent and in the game I was playing in, the -10 meant that some of the Super Villain teams we were going up against would have a 50/50 shot of detecting our communications, some of them would have an even better chance at detecting it.

 

Either way, if I was going to use that specific build in another game, I'd have no problems modifying the build to suit what the GM was comfortable with.

Re: state of the art comm-suite

Okay, I was only half right there. They do not affect sense in general as that is what sense affecting powers are there for.

6E2 13 goes into detail what adjustment powers can do to senses and how they work. For this built the dispel might be the biggest concern.

But you can just buy Defenses with a -2 Limitation "Only for Specific Focus" (6E1 378)

 

Also in 6E you can buy IPE instead of a lot of Concealed, to get completely invisible active senses.

Ah. Okay, I haven't visited this Comm build since I created it in 5th Ed. Wasn't really paying attention to what Drains actually affected either. Thanks for the heads up.

And I didn't go with IPE 'cause I didn't want them completely invisible, just really hard to detect.

Re: state of the art comm-suite

Vanguard' date=' why the power Defense? Drains do not affect senses at all.[/quote']

 

Uh . . . . They don't?

 

I didn't think they could effect inherent sense groups like Sight, Smell, etc but thought they could effect Powers based on those unless purchased with the Inherent adder.

 

Huh, if that's the case then . . wow . . learn something new every day.