Andrew_A

At any rate, it was a fine episode and one that I enjoyed watching. Overall, the CW comic book tv series are better, IMO, than the Netflix ones. I enjoy both, but the CW ones seem more fun to me.

You're. Having. FUN?

Burn the heretic! Burn him!

That version of the trickster (A clinically ill person who is somewhat sympathetic) is okay. I certainly don't mind him. But I like the TV version, too. I also like that they didn't try to repeat the character just because it has Mark Hammil. And I really bet that Mark Hammil is appreciative of that, too. 

 

Soar. 

Yah. You have to keep in mind the target audience. JLU Trickster doesn't work on prime time television. Prime-time-Flash Trickster would be inappropriate for an all ages cartoon.

Personally, I just prefer the cartoon version. YMMV.

Had fun watching last night's Flash episode. 

 

It seemed to me the Trickster was channeling a bit too much Joker (not surprising, I guess, since Mark Hamill voiced Joker for Batman: TAS) -- is the Trickster really that psychotic in the comics?

 

This is my favourite version of the Trickster. Voice by Mark Hammil of course...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJq2PAI-Fxc

I can't argue with what's been said. Kryptonians are horrifically overpowered, and only copious use of the dumb stick (or "the idiot ball", as in "who's carrying the idiot ball this week?") prevents Kara from handily dealing with any and every threat before the first commercial break--if that long. Nor is she the only character who has to carry the thing around. The writing on this show has been...subpar, to say the least, although I'm enjoying Cat Grant far more than I thought I would. I really like her interactions with Kara and Supergirl.

 

Nonetheless, I enjoy the show. I'm a sucker for superhero shows.* Plus, Melissa Benoist really is charming. I wish were better--I wish the writing, specifically, were a lot better. But I'll keep watching. After all, I endured the depths of Heroes far, far, far worse levels of stupidity and bad writing.

 

*As long as the characters have actual powers. I think I just realized that the main reason I don't watch Arrow is because he's just a guy with a bow. Just not my cup of tea.

The writing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Yeah it's stupid, but it's not meant to be taken overly seriously. I can live with Supergirl's level of stupidity. I agree with you about Heroes. That was just beyond the pale.

I liked this episode and I like the series overall. JMHO. YMMV. etc. etc.

Why not ask for an X-Men movie that doesn't have Magneto in it, while you're at it?

I'd be down with that.

Yeah, but just how many stories have dealt with the "I am ultra powerful and live in a world of Tissue" or "I have my one rule for a reason!!!" or "Lois just fell from a building, etc."? I think I just captured 80 percent or more. 

 

Soar. 

87% of statistics are made up. And no that doesn't describe eighty percent of Superman stories over the course of eighty years. Not even close. In fact, given the longevity of said character, it's impossible to accurately guesstimate what a representative sample of Superman stories are like.

I mean Jerry Siegel, John Byrne, Otto Binder, Jim Shooter, Alan Moore, Dwayne McDuffie, Mort Weisinger, and Denny O'Neil all had very different takes on the character. Then you have to consider the takes of actors like George Newburn, Christopher Reeve, George Reeves, Kirk Alyn, Dean Cain, Danny Dark, Henry Cavill, and several more than I can name. On top of that you have to remember that the time period makes a difference. Eighties Superman is very different from forties Superman is very different from fifties Superman is very different from seventies Superman, et cetera. A story written by Alan Moore in the eighties, is going to be radically different from an Otto Binder story written in the late fifties.

Next you have to take into account all the clones of Superman created by others. People keep finding alternate and variant takes on the character. Hyperion, Gladiator, Sentry, Supreme, Plutonian, Icon, Apollo, the High, Captain Marvel (Fawcett version), are all alternate takes on the same basic idea.

So, no, Superman's storytelling potential is not limited. If it was, the comics industry would have run out of ideas decades before any of us was born.

That's the problem.  Superman's storytelling potential is kind of limited...

Eight decades of comics, would disagree with you. (Not to mention cartoons, movies, movie serials, TV shows, and one really bad broadway play.) This is Superman we're talking about, one of the most recognizable fictional characters in the world.

I'm watching Monday's episode right now and I have a question: Why isn't anyone intimidated by terrorists? Just once, I'd like to see some one say, "If I got to this event it's going to make it harder for Security to protect me. Plus, my presence will put a lot of innocent people in danger. I'm a brilliant businessman/politician/celebrity/whatever. Maybe, just maybe, I'm being a selfish douchebag by insisting that I go."

EDIT: Never mind. The episode explained it. However, it's still a ridiculous genre trope.

You guys said it wouldn't happen, but now it might.

I would happily watch that, but I don't think Netflix or Marvel would go for that.

Put me int he "watch Agents of Shield" camp. Season 2 and the current season (3) are excellent. 

 

Similar to you, i didn't like Arrow season 2 so stopped, but started again based on the promise of Supergirl. And I'll probably force myself watch Daredevil and Jessica Jones, but not looking forward to it.  

Jessica Jones is pretty dark, but it's also pretty funny at times. Just don't expect to see Marvel's answer to Lois and Clark. In fact, in some ways it's what I would have liked to see in Arrow season 1.

Just to bring the thread back on topic (sort of), this is why I find Superman more relatable than Spider-Man. Both Superman and Spider-Man understand that "with great power comes great responsibility," but Pete acted, a lot of the time, like being Spider-Man and doing the right thing was a burdensome duty. Superman always accepted responsibility as a given, a sacred trust, and a privilege. He did the right thing for the most believable reason of all, because it was the right thing, same as any cop, fire fighter, or paramedic.

That would be this guy--wouldn't it?

 

Not what I had in mind no. I meant someone who gets powers and realizes that getting wedgies from bullies isn't a big deal. In the early days, Pete whined incessantly about how hard his life is, instead of realizing how cool it is to have super powers and moving on to bigger and better things.

Ultimate Spider-Man is closer to what I had in mind.

Why is Champions used as a measuring stick in the first place? You realize that they are fundementally different products. If not, why not complain that Friends and HERO are not compatible. Or how Pixels and HERO are not compatible. You are stating that they aren't compatible (A point which I think I did a good job at refuting) without addressing the greater point of "why even compare the completely distinct products?" That is like:

 

A - "The Great Spaghetti monster in space is real!"

B - "Why do you think that?"

A - "Because I think The Great Spaghetti monster in space is real!!"

B - "Why?"

A - "Because..."

 

At some point you need to actually address the basic question that is being asked: why compare HERO system to The Flash? Would it be equally okay to compare Monsters and Masterminds? How about Gurps? Would DnD Modern be okay? BESM? Fate? Are all of them reasonable? What do we do when BESM can account for something but DnD can't?

 

 

Why do you assume Grodd will never be able to use his MC? He has already shown that he can. The whole set up for that episode was him getting away with his MC. Even against a member of the team.

 

Cisco created a device to stop his MC but can't give an absolute protection against mental blasts, disorientation, and giant ape fists. So Grodd is still a rival. He is just one that doesn't have an "Auto-win" vs the Hero. And to put this in HERO terms for you since you seem to insist on it: Any GM who builds an NPC with an Auto-win and doesn't allow the PCs to negate that is a terrible GM. Any villain that can out power my Character Physically, Mentally, and is prevented from being neutered is a villain that is wholly uninteresting and the GM is terrible for using it. Are you suggesting that we should have terrible GMs in Champions? ^-^;

 

Lets also address the fact that your point is stupid - yes, absolutely stupid. In the first encounter with the Mental Defense device, the Flash gets knocked about and the device ends up malfunctioning. Thus, his ability to strictly resit Grodd is predicated on him not taking a big hit to the face. And Grodd, while not as fast as The Flash is still able to anticipate his movements to a degree and beat the ever living crap out of him - thus making him vulnerable to the most Game-Overy attack available: a full on Mental Domination via Mind Control.

 

Lastly, lets address your complete disregard for the source material: Heroes always find ways to narrowly beat out their opponents. It is not an exception to the rule that a Hero with some level of gadgetry or with helpers with some level of gadgetry manage to build a device to stop an opponent. No, it is not the exception; indeed, it is quite the opposite. How many times has Tony Stark made adjustments to his suit to defeat foes? How many times has Batman just remembered to bring McGruffin X in his utility belt in order to win? How many times has Ant-Man or Mr. Fantastic create some program or device to win a battle or find a baddy? These are not uncommon. These are expected. If Cisco, Kaitlin, Wells, and Barry were not doing this we would all call them idiots for not exploiting their best tools. And for someone who has complained so strongly that these characters suffer from Dumb Streaks to be demanding that they suffer from Genre destroying dumb streaks is peculiar at best.

 

I get it. Flash isn't doing exactly what you would do if you were the Flash. Too bad. Get over it. But making up excuses to be salty at a show is just mind boggling. And if you are really struggling to watch a show, just quit. I made my two (three?) complaint posts about Supergirl in the Supergirl thread and ended it there. There are people in that thread who like the show. They don't need me going in there explaining and complaining about how terrible a show that is every week. And quite frankly, I don't need that. It is just best to accept such as the way of the world and move onto greener pastures that make you happy.

 

Soar.

 

PS: We have also given a rather clear and obvious work around for Grodd's MC power. You can't protect everyone all the time from Grodd. And it only takes one civilian being captured to rendered The Flash incapable of something.

I agree with you. If you don't like something, don't watch it. I didn't like season 1 of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., so I stopped watching. I didn't like season 1, and most of season 2, of Arrow, so I stopped. Life's too short to indulge in something you hate. Complain if it makes you feel better, there might be some valid criticisms, but don't waste time watching crap.

BTW, I started watching Arrow again and it's better than before. I love both Flash and Supergirl and I'm debating whether or not to watch AoS again. You'd have to waterboard me before I'd ever watch Daredevil or House of Cards again.

Actually, no. Waterboarding might be preferable. More uplifting.

If you want to see really well done mind control, watch Jessica Jones. I'm on the seventh episode and David Tennant is creepy as hell.

I probably wouldn't, you're right. But, it might have more to do with the moral upbringing (especially from my mother) though, to be honest.   20 years of hindsight, a sense of morality, was probably what kept me from doing something ill-advised of some sort, then anyhow.

This is meant to be a compliment, but I'd buy a comic about someone like that. A story about some bullied kid who gets super powers and uses them to do good, despite his crappy life, is classic super heroics.

I thought he shaved with his heat vision in the mirror. Or was that post-crisis?

Post-Crisis. Sort of. He did shave once in an Alan Moore story. As far as I know the only other time he shaved pre-Byrne, was a silver age story where red kryptonite made his hair and fingernails grow uncontrollably.

BTW, the shaving thing Byrne did, always bothered me. How does he cut his hair?

Superman, not Byrne.

I realize if I discovered I had superpowers as a teenager there would be a high likelihood of many of my classmates dying.  Superpowers in reality would not be well placed in a bullied person who is using most of their willpower to maintain a semblance of hope in life.

 

Of course, after HS and up to the present, my use of superpowers wouldn't be so much good/evil so much as the motivation for my misanthropic self to just be left the heck alone. (maybe I am being a bit of a downer).

Maybe I'm too much of a Pollyanna, but I'm not too sure you'd become a super-mass murderer. You'd probably end up with insanely awesome powers, realize that you could wipe out Texas from orbit, and decide that the bullies are kind of beneath you. Being able to shrug off a small nuke might give you increased confidence (or at least increased arrogance). You might decide that if a superpower government couldn't hurt you, then a bully wouldn't be such a big deal.

Okay, this tangent is kind of annoying me, but I just have to chime in. Supergirl's an alien, right? What makes you guys think she orgasms like a normal human being? Maybe "Woman of Steel, Man of Kleenex" isn't a problem.

EDIT: For example: In pre-Crisis continuity, Kryptonians under Earth's yellow sun don't grow hair. Superman never had to shave his beard and Supergirl never had to shave her legs. Neither of them ever needed a haircut. I remember one bronze age story where Superman had to convince a skeptical young boy that he really was Clark Kent by showing him his medicine cabinet (no deodorant, mouthwash, shaving cream, etc.).

Sadly, I"m in that demographic now. Oh, god, I'm a CBS target.  I will continue watching the show, mostly because Melissa Benoist is charming, and because I have a high tolerance for dumb if it gets me my superhero fix*. But my wife, who was also interested initially, has lost interest after the most recent episode. She just finds it boring.

 

*As a general rule, I value smart writing and intelligent characters above most other things, and will suffer through wooden acting, flimsy sets, cheap props and cheesy dialogue if the characters are clever (even if their words aren't) and genre-savvy. Usually. In this case, the neither the writing nor the characters are particularly clever, but I'm still willing to watch. Case in point: if *I* were Supergirl (i.e., nearly invulnerable but with no real fighting experience) my go-to plan when confronting a supervillain would be--fly up at superspeed, grab him, and then fly AWAY--up and out over the sea would be good--to prevent collateral damage, injuries or deaths of bystanders, or the possibility of taking hostages. But that's just me. (And Iron Maiden, who--here's a shock--behaves just that way when I write her.)

Good plan and, sadly, not filmable on a weekly TV show budget.

Both Linda and Iris know Barry's ID in the comics. At least they're being true to the source material.

Whedon was able to do crossovers between Buffy and Angel when they were on separate networks.

Not exactly. The first time he did it, he had to be sneaky and he couldn't mention Buffy by name on Angel. The second time he did it, he had Angel appear on Buffy, not vice versa. By the time season 5 of Angel rolled around, Buffy (the show) was gone so he could do whatever he liked.

Arrow, Flash, Constantine, Legends of Tomorrow. They all benefit from being on the same network, The WB. The network owned by the principle IP holder of DC comics in fact. Supergirl, on the other hand, is on CBS and so I don't think "crossover" is on anyone's lips at either network.

 

And while Arrow and Flash have acknowledged Ferris Air, neither of them have mentioned Green Lantern, or Gotham City, or Metropolis. Likewise, I wouldn't expect the Supergirl show to acknowledge Central City, Star City, Coast City, Gotham City, or any of the heroes that operate (or came from) any of those places. Supergirl is only Earth's second superhero. She says so right in the title sequence. The rest of the DCU basically doesn't exist from what I can tell.

From the Supergirl Wikipedia page.

 

In November 2014, Berlanti expressed interest in Supergirl existing in the Arrowverse, the same universe as his other series Arrow and The Flash,^[76][77] and in January 2015, The CW president Mark Pedowitz revealed that he was also open to a crossover between the series and networks (due to Berlanti executive producing all three and The CW co-owned by CBS). However, CBS Entertainment chair Nina Tassler stated that month that, "those two shows are on a different network. So I think we'll keep Supergirl to ourselves for a while."^[78] In August 2015, Tassler revealed that while there were no plans at the time to do crossover storylines, the three series would have crossover promotions.^[79] Pedowitz later revealed he regretted passing on the series when presented it in mid-2014 saying, "We hadn’t launched The Flash yet, we weren’t ready to take on another DC property. In hindsight we probably should’ve gone that direction… Sometime you lose great shows."

In short, it's probably never gonna happen, but who knows? They could change their minds.

Agents of SHIELD has improved a lot. It's worth taking a second look. The first season seriously suffered from poor planning. They had a lot of time to kill before Winter Soldier came out and didn't handle it right.

 

I confess though, that I don't know what gave you the "interns of SHELD" impression, even early on. Skye was the only new recruit, everyone else were veteran, high-level agents. I didn't like Fitz & Simmons early on, but both have changed for the better. (As far as being interesting characters. They're seriously damaged, so not better from their own POV.)

Well the "Interns of SHIELD" thing isn't mine. I wish I could take credit, but it isn't mine. I guess my problem is that the lead characters - with the debatable exception of May - lacked a certain amount of badassery. They didn't feel like larger than life comic book superagents to me. To illustrate, if you were running a third edition Super Agents campaign, would the group look like them? (I am, of course, referring to how they were in season 1. Maybe I should check out the show now?)