incrdbil

Re: New players, gm, UMA Charge and 34d6 damage

It is charge from UMA' date=' so a martial arts maneuver.[/quote']

 

so thats velocity /5--so normally he adds 4d6 damage, in the situation described above, 6d6. As he has no turn mode and combat acceleration and this move, I'd suggest reducing his base damage maximums by 4d6.

 

 

 

So should I have him justify the no turn move or just write it off as a loss. If I have him justify it and it doesn't fit the fluff of how his flight works then just tell him no? And the same with combat accel/decel? If he is really trying to make Dart then I don't think either works because Dart's flight is a pair of dragon wings that sprout from his summoned armor.

 

Wings do not suggest combat acceleration/decelleration, or lack of a turn mode.

 

And one last question. Combat accel/decel allows a character to make use of his full velocity no matter how little he moved, so a 20" charge could do 20/5+ whatever d6 with only moving one hex. This is how it was explained by the guy who knows more of the system than the rest of us.

 

 

Correct--which is a reason to beware of certain martial arts moves. Many things in HERO are perfectly fine and innocent, but dangerous when mixed with other elements.

Re: the Five Coils of Cobra

The way the dive bomber avoided damage was something about how with a charge, which he couldn't remember the source of, the weapon takes the impact.

Ok, this charge..was this a move through? a Move by, or a martial art manuever?

If its a move through or move by, there are rules for how the PC takes damage. If its a martial arts move with a move element, generally the PC won't be taking damage. In a superheroic game, you aren't going to be worrying about points paid for super weapons breaking from some form of charging attatck.

And from what I'm reading here about the combat accel/decel and no turn mode on flight is that it does make pulling a 90 degree turn at ground level legit, it is very powergamer?

If hes making the 'divebomb' move a staple of his tactics..and there's no really good reason or explanation for the no turn move advantage other than "its really good in combat"..I would suspect a power gamer.

Re: New players, gm, UMA Charge and 34d6 damage

I think there's a number of quick and easy steps you can take to sort things out to your, and your players', satisfaction:

 

5. Never retcon the game. Always keep the story moving forward. If that was your favourite master villain, tough. Don't bring him back and say it was a clone, or a robot or whatever. Players HATE that sort of thing

then why are they playing a superhero game? The re-appearance of a supposedly dead villain is an element of the genre.

6. 34d6 attack? I'm really struggling to understand how any attack could reach this scale in a 350 point game!

Well, it seems 80 points was the AP limit. so take 18d6 as a base..somehow 16d6 was added. I thought the thread suggested a martial full move attack as the culprit...which woudl require 80" of velocity!. around 48" of velocity would be needed even for a move through!..so the damage roll was miscalculated no matter what, since the velocity downward shoudl ahve beeen (from what I'm reading) 30"..adding a range of 6 to 10d6 damage, dependign on what type of attack occurred.

Re: New players, gm, UMA Charge and 34d6 damage

A lot of the at the table rules are coming from the one guy who has played this before' date=' though he learned when 5th was just coming out from a guy who was running 5th but apparently mixed a lot of 4th in. So some rules mishaps are apparently happening. Where are the appropriate descriptions for diving, excess move (figuring out if he should have plowed through the bad guy and into the basement), and damage done to weapons during charge. Those in particular seem to be appropriate and I have no idea where to find them. [/quote']

 

Good place to start, page 364, 5ER.

 

 

 

Just a few clarifications:

Ok, as I understand it, the move was using a martial arts manuever, with a full move element. The normal damage you seem to descrive was 18d6, but some how this move made it 34d6.

 

 

The 10" over 30" down is from 20" flight and a full move charge. From what you are saying I gather that an attack can't be a part of full move.

 

It can, if the atatck has a full move element, as many martial arts moves do--and those are abilities to be careful with. As a GM, always be readyt o say 'no' to an ability, power, or skill.

 

So a standard 6" movement guy can do a charge or move through/by with moving 6", or if it is 6" flight then 9" due to gravity?

 

Gravity does help when moving down. So if your fellow with 20" of flight was 10" up, he would have the dstance to reach his full velocity. he would have an additional 10" of velocity, and would have an effective velocity of 30" on impact--enough to add 6d6 to most martial manuevers with a full move element (they add V/5 in d6 damage. Velocity/3 only comes from a move through..which is much harder to pull off).

 

As a GM, you would have been fine in ruling the 'dive bombing' character had a chance of crashing into the ground--except I see the character has no turn moce as an advantage. This souunds like a powergamer build to me--hes trying to exploit a loophole. Firmly step in and crush this--get rid of the martial move, or the no turn mode, and make him have to roll a DEX roll to avoid crashing into the ground with such moves, or figuire velocity into his damage caps and make him reduce all of his normal attacks to most of his dive bomb attacks within reason. Or teach him a lesson and have lots of fights indoors, or feature lots of villains with held actions and martial throw.

 

 

I can't tell you his stats other than dex (34), one less than the other two characters, because no one has bothered to give me a copy of their sheet.

 

Tell them npo one plays without a pre-submitted, and reviewed character sheet. If they dotn have it ready by game time, they can sit and work on the character and submit it when they are done..and you'll review it when you have time, after the session.

 

 

 

The guy next to him (rules guy who actually wants to play a balanced game) told me after a game a couple of weeks ago about this but his computer has since melted its power socket so that isn't an issue for a while.

 

Oh, it will be an issue; I think you've got a powergamer on your hand. Get this guys character, and post the stats here, and we'll do a 'GM diagnostic' exam

Re: New players, gm, UMA Charge and 34d6 damage

You have to be cautious of players who take attacks already at the damage cap for your campaign, then add on velocity adding damage manuevers. Move-by's and Move throughs have built in compensations that means you don't have to worry abotu them as much. But Charge, or passing strike can be easily abuseable. Feel free to deny the MA element, or make the player reduce the amount of damage their normal attacks can do if velocity adding manueversare used routinely.

I'd also check yor calculation..20" of flight plus 10" horizontal movement..I'm not seeing how you get from what appears to be a normal limit of 18d6 to 34d6. Another way to limit the dive bombing atatck from above is to cap all velocity at the maximum falling rate of 30" unless the players flight already exceeds that rate. the laws of game balance trump physics. Either ways gives you an out to cap the velocity at 30", adding only 6d6 more damage.

You could also apply a -0 limitation to the HA sword, that it can't be used, or reduces the amount of damge it adds to velocity based attacks. Easy enought to rule--its a sword, maybe holding it while ramming into someone at high speeds is problematical.

Re: MordSith

Don't forget the undeniably hot in leather ability..as I have verified through the TV series.

Khalan masquerading as a Mord Sith wasn't bad either.

Re: Time related powers

The all time freeze means tiem is stopped, with the user able to interact with the environemnt that is frozen in time. My intent is to keep this a short term power.

Some overall philosophy on time travel in this campaign, to help with power formulation/discussion:

There is a fixed 'present', a locked in past, and many possible futures.

Seeing the future is tricky. Most precognitive attempts will fall into three classes:

The very variable future--usually immediate, and you can certainyl change the future based on your actions, but usually in minor ways (minor in terms of campaign impact). these are the most common precognitive visions, and the most clear.

Less common are the crisis events--the time where the rush of events has led to only a few possibilities happening, and a certain nexus event determines those possibilities. This is the classic "If X isn't stopped before Y happens,great changes/devasttaion will occur"--these visiosn are often less clear--you might not know exactly when the situation will happen, or the consequences of stopping a certain action, or exactly what led to those events happening.

The most rare vision is the certain future--the events of the past, destiny, whatever, have led to certain unavoidable situations. so and so will die, such and such fortress will fall, or great doom will come when a certain anniversary occurs, or the certain death of a person, or the precog themselves. These rare visions are often the most hazy, and misunderstood 9often caused by misguided attempts to avoid the vision coming true in the first place)..and they always happen..but the vision of the future might be so limited that it is misinterpreted. the precog might see the hero being betrayed by their best friend and shot in the back....but the precog didnt know that the hero was acting on wrog inormation or mind controlled into doing something terribly wrong.

Someone travelling to the past restarts progression, IOW, they unlock the events ahead. But think of it as a rock in the river--any change they make isn't going to make too much of a difference, the overwhelming tide fo what is already established will smooth over any disturbance in the long run.

That said, the bigger splash, the bigger change you make, and ultimately, you can divert a river if you intervene at the right point and change its course, but ultimately, some events are too big to change without immense cosmic/mystic powers aiding the common time traveller. (Wiping out life before it evolves, for example.)

Travellign to the future is possible, but as there are many possible futures, you cant be certain the future you go to is the one that the present course of time will fall into. the further ahead you go, the less certain the result can be. therefore information you bing back from the future may or may not be terribly reliable, based on how 'likely' the future you went to actually is. The skill in going to a more likely future (or accurately travelling in time at all) comes from a skill of the Power Skill: Time Travel.

Paradox is handled like this--the time traveller is protected by their status as a present time entity--they themselves are immune to the changes they cause. So if they kill their own grandfather..they will still exist when they return to their own time, but to a world where they never existed.

Multiple time travelling (ie, going back to a time you already went back to) isn't possible. IOW, time travel to change the past is a one shot event..for a specific time period. therefore, time travellers tend to stay as little time back as possible--just in case their alterations have unforseen effects, by leaving immediately afterwards they leave more of a window for their futurre self to return and try immediate damage control.

Travlellers from a possibel future are possible..But for that to happen, it has to come from a very likely future, certainyl one that qualifies as a nexus event. Such tampering can be countered, as the impact of a traveller from a 'possible future' is far less significant than a present time entity.

T

Re: Time related powers

Some intriguin ideas.

The one ability of freezing one person in time, I was using...well..mental illusion with a significant set effect. Completely changes the persons reality. I thought about a based on ego entangle..but the cost of making the person not notice what had happened to them was amazing--blocking the sense ofpassage of time seemed to cheesy to me.

I'm goign to have to break down and get the speed zone thing..or is it similar to the mental zone from ultimate mentalist?

As for Transforms..thats possible. I'd like to change it from power defense being the defense..but lacking anythign better..hmm...

Well, some of the powers included above are going directly into a characters Temporal VPP, so great results already!

I'm looking for variosu time control related power suggestions.

Specifically--freezing another person in time.

Stopping time except for the user

--User and one other

Short term time travel that can alter prior acts/actions (rememeber the old temporal fugue power from Dragon magazine?)

I'm looking for ways to do it in game, and suggestions on keeping it from breaking the game. I have some ideas, but I'm interested in fresh attempts on these effects. Thanks for your input.

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

At last.......my precious....

::falls into pool of lava::

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

Want to borrow the cone rifle?

Yeah, I bet you have that nice shiny new 6th ediiton write up cone rifle too. Wish I had the instruction manual. Oh well, I guess it can't be that hard.

::Refers to previous version manual, promptly puts it backwards on his shoulder::

Fire in the hole!

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

The UPS truck is at the end of my street!!!

...and it drove right by, giving me the invisible middle finger as it went off in the distance.

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

The UPS truck is at the end of my street!!!

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

Well, so much for optimism.

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

I feel optimisitc: I hope for a Friday delivery, as I have Friday off, and thus would be able to spend the day perusing the tomes.

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

I'm eagerly anticipating. Showing off the hard copies to my local group will probably spur a few orders.

Re: A Storeowner's First Impression

For years, I had troubel accepting the importance of cover art: then work with a release and revision of a set of rules, that featured a significant increase in the quality of art, pictures, and overall appearance--well, it made such an impact, and the reaction of the customers finally drove it through my head.

and though we'd liek to think we do things differentyl, browsing through gamign books is not that different than any other book browsing--how often do you pick up a book due to a nice cover and/or title, scan the back blurb, then look at it more closely.

To the already devotede, it may be hard to see--but to the new browser, or to the not-so-devoted, it does matter. I hate that it is so, but it is what it is. The appearance of the 6e books is nice.

Though I love the toolkit approach, I think in the future we may have to face reality if sales of the toolkit focused game aren't bringing home enough moolah: Champions brings home the bacon, and is the flagship setting, and will have to become the featured product with built in rules and genre book becoming the primary product, and a expanded toolkit rules coming second, and other genres down the road contributing as their sales justify.

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

OK' date=' guys, one more time- orders are *still* going out. It doesn't mean we hate you, it means this ship-out was about six times larger than any we've ever done before. We apologize for the time it's taken, but sniping at us here isn't making it go any faster. dw[/quote']

 

Darren, I sincerely apologize if my comment seemed to be sniping. I was truthful when I said with any other company, I'd be impatient (impatient to me becomes sending messages, asking where something is, and getting actually grumpy). But I know DOJ, and thats why I'm not firing off emails, messages or taking other measures, because I am sure the stuff is coming. Even if something wierd happened between your doors and my mailbox (bigfoot mugged the maiman), in the end it would all be worked out fairly.

 

I've never doubted, for a moment, that the company was working very hard to deliver product in a professional and timely manner as possible. I've not had any dealings where I felt the company was not doing its best to be as fair and responsive as possible in terms of answering customer requests about their product.

 

Please forgive the eagerness, an eagerness that is exacerbated by of teasing nature of hearing about the 6E bundles of joy land around the world as some of us stare out our windows with desirous eyes. I'm jut eagerly awaiting having the books in my hand to really get goign with my campaign conversions. The PDF's are wonderful reference tool, I'm just defective somehow, unable to absorb as well from a PDF as from a hardcopy. Maybe its just the inability to read a PDf upon the royal throne....but I digress

 

So if my ramblings here grated, my apologies, but on the bright side, its better than us being apathetic about the arrival, right?

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

A friend of mine' date=' here in the UK, told me his have arrived. I'm now hopeful my copies will arrive soon.[/quote']

 

So, after-Con orders have arrived, international orders have arrived, and copies are in regular stores now..but my pre-order is still out there?

 

::sighs:: If it were any other company, I'd be out of patience.

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

Ok, I have to admit to getting a tad impatient. If copies are indeed now in local game stores, and regualrly ordered copies are getting delivered before convention pre-orders....well, I'll see what monday brings before going further down that path.

Re: Disappointment

I'm sorry. I forgot that it's not okay to have your own opinions and expectations from a product. I forgot that it's not okay to be disappointed with a product. I really wanted to like CO, but I guess when it comes to Champions/HERO, I'm too much of a "fan-boy".

 

Apparently you've forgotten that when you post on a public forum, people may respond with you, and may not agree with that opinion, and they are free to voice that disagreement and point out particular concers with the foundations of certain statements you are making. I'm glad this experience has provided you an essential reminder.

I don't understand why making aspects of the game resemble the PnP is a "bad business decision",

And thats crucial to the entire basis behind your unrealistic expectations of an MMO.

You're right. I probably wanted way too much from this title. My expectations were way too high.

They weren't too high,---your expectations defied logic. You were expecting a seven course gourmet meal from a retail fast food franchise.

Re: Disappointment

Does that mean that I couldn't be hopeful that the system the DID implement would somehow RESEMBLE the HERO System? NO!!!!

Well, I guess it was unfortunate you had hopes not based on the fairly obvious relaity of what a MMO would be like.

Does it mean that I can't still be disappointed in the fact that there isn't a single *expletive deleted* game mechanic in CO that hearkens me back to the "good ol' days" of tabletop play? NO!!!!

No, you can feel however you like. And we can laugh as you shake your tiny fist of rage.

I was tracking info on Cryptic's MUO for a while. I was very excited about it, being a long-time Marvel fan. When Marvel backed out, I was very, very disappointed. But when it was announced that Cryptic was going a new direction with their new superhero MMO, calling it CHAMPIONS ONLINE, and basing it upon the RPG of the same name? Well, I don't think it was possible for me to be MORE excited! I thought an MMO would NEVER be produced that utilized the one thing everyone who actually knew about CHAMPIONS loved... the die-hard RPG system. I guess I was right.

the fact it was re-tooling an engine originally designed for a marvel game might have given a soul an inkling it wasnt goign to incorperate and semblance to pnp Champions rules.

Nay-say all you want, but there is no reason that CHAMPIONS ONLINE could not have utilized systems which would more closely resemble ... *ahem*... RESEMBLE various aspects of the PnP system.

none you are goign to listen to, I'm sure. The reasons are vast, obvious, but apparently facts are not goign to be a feature of thsi discussion, but likes and dislikes. We get it. You no likee. I suggest you move on, unless you are a professional bitterboy who only derives pleasure from hating and disliking things.

Seriously though, I never expected a perfect translation of the PnP rules to an MMO, but they could have at least made an EFFORT!

Why should they be so stupid? Appealing to the game mechanics of the tiny pnp crowd, or appealing to the MMO crowd?

I got in fairly early for the Alpha, and I NEVER EVER EVER say ANYTHING that even remotely resembled the PnP game. And don't try to slap me in the face with their "stat block", cuz that's only namesake, the stats don't work at all like they do in PnP.

well, of course they don't.

And unlike Antiklaus who states that he's not trying to trash talk CO... I am. I am beyond disappointed with the title. I think it's poo. Sure, it's poo in a nice, shiny box... but it's still poo. Until I read or hear from a RELIABLE SOURCE that Cryptic has overhauled the system to more closely adhere to the PnP rules, they won't see a dime of my money.

Frankly, they don't care about your money. They are far better off losing your buisness than tryign to appeal to you. Some customers simply aren't worth pleasing if pleasing them means wrecking your product.

When beta ended, so did my involvement in the title. I check periodically, in the hopes that a miracle will occur.

Stop wasting your time, that 'miracle' won't occur because Cryptic wouldn't make such a bad buisness decision.

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

I ordered at GenCon as well. I'm goign to wait till Friday before I get terribly concerned. Mail is wierd. My mom mails letters to my kids all the time--two letters, same address, mailed from the same place at the exact same time, and they often get here 2-3 days apart from each other.

Re: And 6e print books start to arrive

Still anticipating my order. Had my PDF's since GenCon..but I just cant sit down to absorb them. PDF's are wonderful references, but I just cant absorb the rules from them. It makes no sense, really.

Re: Disappointment

 

I do not know what this game is, but it is NOT Champions or the Hero System. It does not even bear a superficial resemblance! Gone is the point build system. Gone is the fine control over stats and powers. Gone is the very game mechanics that made Champions as much a war game as it was a role playing game. In it's place is a system with frigging 'levels'! As if we've learned nothing since the days of basic D&D! This game system has more similarity to Diablo than the original Champions.

.

It's am MMO. To duplicate the rules structure of a pnp RPG would not be appropriate for an MMO. there was no reason to feel disappojntment since, in no way shape or form did they claim to imitate that environment, nor was their ever any reason to think an MMO could do so, without dooming itself to immediate failure.