incrdbil

Re: Disappointment

I'm having a wierd feeling. I call it..deja-troll.

Re: I ruined my campaign

I don't see a need to kill the campaign--the events you described aren't because of the campaign--and indeed, it seems it could have happened no matter what campaign you were playing.

Have a talk with your payers, admit what you didnt expect, and see how they feel. You all have effort invested int he current campaign, don't toss it aside due to a little complication or two just yet. Hang in there.

Re: Disappointment

I am sorry that I have to keep repeating myself, but you insist on being dense about this. If their website, and their game make a claim, then they owe it to the customer to meet that claim.

 

Don't feed the troll folks.

Re: Things You'd See in a World Full of Supers...

Lots of concern, and testing of superhumans in professional sports. Worries about events being influenced by those with mind control, mental illusion, or telekenesis.

Vegas paying top dollar for those with the ability to detect the same.

Conswtruction firms seeking mutant specialists. Those with very limited powers (ie, only the ability to lift heavy things, but not true brick), or a low level eb guy getting job as a welder.

Re: PvPing: The Hero Games

I don't think this is unique to CO; in my experience it's true of all MMOs with PvP.

Oh, I certainly agree--there is nothing prticualry bad about CO's PVP--its just the type of attitude that comes from PVP'rs--especially the constant demands for game alteration that get far more attention than they deserve.

Changing the game for PVP sake is akin to amending a RPG's rules due to the demands of the loudest yelling player out of a group comprised of 90% the rules abusing munchkin power gamers.

Re: 6E Mess

It's not a question of want. It's a question of physical transformation. If you are a DEX 10 guy who turns into a Dex 23 guy' date=' you don't get to transform until Dex 10. Only in Alternate ID is meant to be a limitation in and out of combat. I only let people who have a "Physical Transformation" power have it in the first place. You can't abort to change into Hero ID, because it requires an entire phase to get it to work

 

Well, this is another example of you seemign not to understand the rule--or feeling compelled to use them in an adversarial way versus players. aborting to what can be generally determined to be a defensive action isn't game breaking--and if you intend to launch near fatality attacks against players in their Secret ID's without warning.......

 

. So if on Dex 11, the character gets caught in a 3d6 Killing Explosion (Huge in my game, but reasonable), chances are, he's bleeding to death on the ground. He's not in his hero ID, he's just bleeding to death on the ground. That's why it's a limitation.

 

No, its not a limitation. His power was available, he chose not to have it up. Dexterity infinity guy is in the same situation if he is surprised when his powers are off.

 

 

Often, villains do attack places where the heroes are in Secret ID.

 

And, as the GM controlling those actions its up to you to make the scenario challenging, even moreso for those with certain limitations but not an automatic deathtrap.

 

How many scenes have you seen in movies and comics where the first thing that happens is Spidey's Danger sense goes off, or the characters are talking in a perfectly ordinary restaurant, and someone throws a bus through the window?

 

You mean the ones the heroes always seem to live through?

 

Now, if the character has OIAID, he's going to probably take some damage from the bus with no defenses whatsoever.

 

Only if the player doesnt take any of the man possibel defensive actiosn here--aborting to a normal dive for cover, or taking some form of cover, going prone, etc..

 

again, the fact the payer chooses to not have his power on for social limitations is not a limitation on the power. It's a consequence of the disadvantage. If the player doesn't want any consequnces of the disadvantage..then don't take it. Surprise assasinations attempts with no defensive action allowed however, isnt a fair and reasonable consequnce of a disadvantage.

 

 

 

That's why this limitation can still be -1/4 even if you can instantly transform, because not everyone is aware that the bus is coming.

 

I can actually be ok with the instanty transform, depending on the FX--but I usually ask for a balancing condition like certain circumstances can prevent the transformation. (When Super Armor guy is suddenly in a null-particle field, he finds the teleporter that instantly places his armor on him doesn't work). Thats a case by case working of OIHD, but its still in the realm of what is an actual limitation--a situation that isnt the result of a character decision.

 

 

 

 

The issue with OIAID is twofold. One, Steve always receives lots of complaints about people who abuse OIAID, so when he got a chance, he changed the limitation to make it work a little differently. Two, the limitation doesn't always do what it should in terms of representing things, and makes people go for Multiform no matter how much their power should be an alternate identity of some kind.

 

I've never heard of peopel goinjg for multiform due to problems with OIHD--I've heard of players hoping to exploit multiform after getting excited and thinking the GM isn't goign to dampen their munchkin ambitions. the limitation really works well at representign the effect--what it doesnt do well, and shouldn't do be expected to do well, is mimic the problems caused by having a secret identity.

Re: 6E Mess

I have to disagree with you, but I see no problem letting the kid get a -1/4 lim for this, as long as he understands that as a GM I am being asked to make it a limitation. it might not be 100% RAW (it was in 4th BTW), but it is AT LEAST as limiting as having a magic amulet that is kept under your clothes that only mages can see is the source of your power (aka IIF), or how about needing surgry to remove your powers (AKA Restrainable other than grabs). Point is that a limitation is a limitation when the GM says it is.

 

I have gone so far as to allow a character to take a -1/4 lim "Of limited use" on a vanilla RKA in a very silver age campeign, as the guidelines for the campeign made it so that you really could not use it that often.

 

HOWEVER, and this is important, the GM must be willing to make it a limitation

And thats the problem with the situation as described: the roleplaying decision is what is causing the restriction in the players action. The GM really can't force the limiting effect here as its purely character choice. There may be roleplaying consequiences to what they player does, but thats just part of being in a RPG, and certainly not a basis for points compensation. A limitation comes into play when a character can't do something than a non-limited character could do, when the player wants the character to do it. The situation as described by the post isnt a facet of OIHD in any manner, but a consequence of having visible powers and a secret identity. Under this justification, every player with a visible power effect and secret ID would be entitled to OIHD!

Re: 6E Mess

Interpretation of 0 to -9 STUN as "he's staggering backwards" rather than "he's down on the ground with his eyes shut, unmoving" also helps. And, given the character remains aware of his surroundings at this level, seems quite reasonable - he's a bit harder hit than being Stunned, but he's still moving. Another reasonable interpretation would be that he's down, but trying to get up. So use an action to target him and fire only if he does get up.

 

In terms of genre enforcement,one deterrent to characters that target opponents who are unconscious, or rather helpless is suddenly finding themselves arrest. A guy breaks into my home and attacks me, I am ok with defending myself--or with stopping him from attacking someone else. But if I disarm him, and knock him to the ground unconscious, and continue to beat on him...I may go to jail.

Superheroes get some leniency in most genres. No one will really complain if you make sure Dr. Destroyer is well and truly subdued, or a few 'late hits' a second or two after the finishing hit.

But gathering in a circle to have a good old fashioned foot to head stomping....

Characters who routinely keep attacking foes to acheive the mechanistic effects of -40 Stun might need to get a firm talking to by the police or government agency rep, but players will feel that pressure if the GM is relentlessy tracking recoveries and bringing every villain back up to fight--even if the dramatic and challenge needs of the current fight have been met.

Re: 6E Mess

The problem is that in my game' date=' I know it's worth the -1/4, because their disadvantages get used. If you're a normal, and have the RP happens during School, for instance, your teen character should get a -1/4 for only in Hero ID. [/quote']

 

I hate to go back to this..but let me say to this..No.

 

Your teen shouldnt get a limitation, because being in school doesn't prevent him from access to his power..unless the school is equipped with power nullifiers. The social/roleplaying consequnces may make the character reluctant to manifest their powers, but their ability to use the power isn't affected. Thats why we have disadvantages and limitations.

 

 

 

If your character is a journalist for a magazine that covers supers, and you publish unflattering material about someone, or they're offended by what you wrote, and they have a higher DEX than you, Sneak attack is irrelevant. You still can't change until your action, AND if you can't hide, your SID is fried like an egg if you do. If the villain goes before you, you suck an attack with no defenses.

 

The character has the choice of keeping powers on all the time, and living with public identity.

 

There's a difference between "can't" and "won't".

 

 

1) Is the character ever in a position where this is a disadvantage?

 

2) Does the character do things that promote those positions, or will the character frequently/constantly be in an environment that promotes those situations?

 

3) If it is the case that something like this comes up about once every four sessions or less, then it's worth the -1/4 limitation. Otherwise, no bonus.

 

thats a good set of questions, but number 2 should be used for quantifying a social disadvantage.

 

Honestly, when it comes to figuring out where the mess is, I'd say it comes from 40 pages of house rules, and the group dynamics that made that neccessary. 75 points isn't a magical number, for example.

As for this

 

Although the numbers may have changed slightly, the numbers on the recovery chart did not. And this is why I think Armor Piercing is broken at +1/4, because it brings people to the -11+ recovery categories much faster than was ever possible before.

 

The problem with players feeling the need to (unheroically) shoot opponents while they are down is better adressed in the way the GM runs combats..as addressed in 5ER, actually. Ignorig recovery options for all minor NPC's below 0 stun helps a lot.

 

As for Agents being taken out easily..well, thats par for the superhero course. They should be mulched and tossed about with abandon. Seriously, tracking, or even calculating Stun for a run of the mill agent is a waste of GM time.

 

Over and over, I see fewer problems with the rules, and a bigger problem of a raging power escalation war beteen the players and the GM--complicated by overthinking easy conventions and misinterpreting certain rules. Seriously, that what it reads like. I know you may feel differently, but considering the multiple sources coming to similar conclusions....

I highly recomend skype. Its free, very easy to use; it requires no set up server you have to pay for. It works as a handy IM program as well, sends files, etc.

http://www.skype.com/

I've foudn it to be easier to use and frendlier in impact on performance than ventrilo, which would require someone to have a server.

It really makes teaming so much better.

Re: PvPing: The Hero Games

PVP sucks. You really have to specialty build for it--or be very exclusive who you team with. Don't expect much help, as the PVP centric players tend to exemplify everything bad you can find in MMO players.

Forming a league of PVE players who occasionally PVP will work, but be warned certain builds just will never, ever do well at PVP.

Re: What sorta rig are you running?

I am curious what systems everyone is running CO on and what their gameplay is like. I need a bigger boat and I am scratch-building it for CO. I will do it as cheap as I can get away with.

 

So what are you using for CPU, memory, & graphics? How's that workin' out for ya?

Intel Quad Ciore II 2.4 GHz

6 Gigs Ram

Vista 64 Bit

NVidis GeForce 8400 GS

Not a huge gaming system, but its adequate. I had some lag last night, but not due to a lack of resources.

Re: Multiform for Free? Frustrated....

Multiform was wide open to abuse before. Abuse proofing multiform seems to need to be so campaign specific, that hardwiring it becomes rather futile. Never seen a fix that seemed acceptable on a very wide scale--some situation always came up where the scheme severely impacted that version of multiform.

Re: List Your CO Heroes!

Currently playing (all @ incrdbil)

Seer

On the way

Ranger

Hornet

Nanowoman

Blaze

EbonStar

As for a superteam--that would be awesome. So far, my biggest complaint about my CO experience is the refusal of others to team, or just talk.

Re: OMCV 1?

You're quite correct; resetting the start numbers to 1 or 0 for every Characteristic would have been a lot more logical. The more we go around this' date=' the more it's becoming obvious that the way 6E reworked Characteristics is fundamentally flawed. [/quote']

 

Only is we assume the majority of HERO system characters created dont start as baseline humans..or humanoid. I'm sure if the change had been made, then we'd have the moaning about needless point total inflation 'just to be a normal'.

 

Oh well, its not a new edition unless there is complaining.

 

 

Start players with an OMCV of 3, or 0 if you like. Don't give a player points for selling it back unless you make it worth it. In other words, ...be a Gamemaster. Can we nitpick on the formatting of paragraphs, a missing comma, or some other issue as vital as the use of OMCV by those without offensive mental powers?

Re: 6e discussion: Complications

There is more structure to Complications (formerly Disadvantages) in that how often they come up is more standardised. There's been some tidying up, but things are basically the same.

 

I've always wondered about Disad...Complications. There does not seem to be a great deal of effort to match the point cost to actual utility (negative utility?)...for example you get 25 points for becoming enraged in combat on 11- and recovering on 11-; a hinderance for sure, but that's a lot of points, yet only 15 points for taking 1 1/2x stun from physical attacks. Sheesh. You'll barely ever be conscious. You get nothing at all for having to charge your powers every day from a magical lantern, Green Lantern stylee. Nothing.

Well, I like to think of it this way. When interacting with people, taking 50% more stun from physical attacks really won't influence things. But, given an established campaign, a character who becomes enraged in combat on a 11- will perhaps get a certain treatment--call it an earned, zero point reputation--of being a human time bomb. Going enraged in combat leads you to doing very destructive actions that may have out of combat repercussions that are more serious than having a glass jaw.

"Why yes, you stopped that street punk who took a shot at you. However, ripping up the powerpole connected to the transformer to city hall and putting him in the emergency room is a bit of an extreme reaction to a jewelry store theft."

And a villain who just knows you lose it in combat half the tiem may find more ways to destroy you than just punching you. After all, the punch just has to hit--the combat--well, that happens when the villain initiates it.

Re: Omcv 1?

Ric Romero roleplaying newsflash: GM's may have to decide if players are trying to exploit the system and take action if required.

Re: Omcv 1?

Seems cheesy to me. Very' date=' very cheesy.[/quote']

 

Every GM has to decide what is cheese. In this case, Icould see qa GM deciding to forbid selling back OCMV if a character doesn't have any mental powers. Some GM's may not care. If an in-game reason for the player to develop a mental power comes about, they have to dig out of that hole they have dug themselves into.

 

Or, a GM may cheerfully send players into some form of adventure that takes place in the mind--and the MCV's become the only CV's you use.

 

After all, selling off a characteristic to gain points is a sort of complication--and if it never causes problems, then they shouldn't get points for it.

Re: Lifetime Subscription

Had a blast playing this at GenCon, and talking with the Cryptic folks. they seemed to really get a kick that my friend and I breezed through the character creation (of course we did a custom powerset) and costume..but we agaonized over the right name even on a one shot demo character.

So I've pre-ordered, doen the lifetime subscription..of course, to do so meant cancelling my ongoing CoH subscription. Time to go, unload my toons via respecs, and do a fire sale of my purple IO sets--or run around and trade them to level 2 starting toons I come across for fun.

Re: Military Eye for the Civilian Gal

greenbriar:

So what you are saying is that young officers who do not have experience are often rivals of sgt who have experience?

 

-SC

Smart young officers learn to rely greatly on Sergeants. However, there are always a few who get a little cocky with their rank, and think that there's nothign any mere 'enlisted' soldier can tell them. These yougn officers often come to regret that. Sadly, a few manage to get ahead and move up, but usually this attitude isn't encouraged (and is, in fact, discouraged) by superiors who note it. Thsi is not as much an issue when you have an officer who started out as enlisted, then went to OCS and became a commissioned officer as opposed to those directly commissioned as officers.

There's a saying I encountered in the army.

"What's the difference between a Second Lieutenant (O1) and a Private First Class (E3) ?

The PFC has at least earned two promotions."

Re: Military Eye for the Civilian Gal

Hmm, if the Sergeant is quite a bit less malicious, and the rivalry seems to be a classic 'rubbing each other the wrogn way' personality clash between teams thats exacerbated by unfortuate circumstances..play this up.

Since magic is involved, perhaps an every popular but tortuous 'switched bodies' episode..just for a walk in someone elses shoes.

It depends on which way you want to take the rivalry--force a healing for the worlds benefit, or push it to something more dangerous.

Or, maybe a combination--a manipulative villain seeks to stoke the fires and bring the two to all out war against each other, then take advantage of the conflict to get away with his own nefarious plot. If anything, the outrage about the two of them being manipulatedonce the characters find out about it, or Harry can convince the good sergeant it is a set up) should make for a great 'coming together' battle moment where they unite against a common foe and go to town.

Re: Military Eye for the Civilian Gal

 

I don't think you really meant Sgt Superior to be taken as a "typical" soldier. But maybe that's what some of us thought you were saying.

 

Thats what I took it as. If that was not the intention, and if the character was an ex-soldier for a reason (theres a good reason many types get out of the military and try to brag about being in, because they couldn't function in the military bevcause they are over-agressive a-holes who can't work with others)...then I do apologize. Perhaps I've been lurikng rpg net and other forums too much lately, theres a lot of 'I need some evil..I'll use a soldier, they are all just kill crazy fascists anyway' attitudes out there, and apparently I wrongly read an inocent post.

Again, my apologies.

Hmm, Sergeant Superior, if he's a really big twit might set Harry up for failure, abusing a contact or resource as to give the team false intel through an therwise reliable resource, or arrange for equipment promised by some agency to be sabotaged or fail, or somehow prevent some expected support not to arrive, then have his team come in to save the day.

He may even lobby for his team to somehow become more officially sanctioned than Harry's, and use that against them, trying to crowd them out of many scenes all together.

Re: Military Eye for the Civilian Gal

Agree, thumbs down. Yay, more military bashing. all soldiers are idiots, and the military is somethign to always laugh at.

But here's a military mindset response: the next time Harry and his team get in trouble. Sergeamt and his team come through, at great risk of their life, to help them, even if the ones they are there to help mocks them and disrespects them, and does so without expectation of getting thanked.

That's the 'military mindset' response.

Re: Superpowers in the Courthouse

Bingo to that. Blow up a few blocks downtown' date=' randomly kill a few dozen or more people, and the average citizen isn't going to give a damn about violations of your rights. Kill a few hundred or more, and the majority will be shouting for your blood. Of course, the first time the public learns of a high profile mistake in secret trials, opinion will swing against them. The legal system that will eventually emerge from the tension between fear and anger over acts of mass destruction by Super Criminals and distress over the mistreatment of innocent suspects doesn't have to look all that much like our current system.[/quote']

 

Agreed-it is almost certain that super-powered criminals would to have the right to be phyisicaly present in the Courtroom without having their powers somehow inhibited--even if it took a Consitituonal Amendment. You can't force the court members to risk their lives.

 

In the end, certain, more darker genres (or perhaps I should say realistic) might even turn a blind eye to summary executions of villains too dangerous to contain by heroes. Everyone just nods, winks, says self defense/protection of others, and they move on.

 

But for those that dont fit that bill, you could perhaps come up with a super-strong courtroom--a screen of transparent indestuctible material of choice, force screens, etc. I dont have the modules in front of me, but it seems that perhaps Stronghold would be the obvious place to build a super-court-room complex, letting it serve as pre and during trial detention facility if the CCTV option is allowed.

Re: Superpowers in the Courthouse

Yeah' date=' I think having a telepath verify truthfulness or mine information [i']in[/i] the courtroom would violate a defendant's right not to incriminate himself, but providing information to the authorities so they can gather evidence the old fashioned way seems much more workable.

You know, the presence of a court mentalist might even be requested by either side--to check for possibel compulsion, alteration of memories, mental eavesdropping. If a HERO team had a telepath, a savvy defense attorney might request them be barred from the courtroom for that purpose.

I think the use of CCTV would sufffice for confronting an accuser, especially when it came to the most dangerous of villains. Thats if they get a trial. Certain villains might be so dangerous as to be threat to national security, and be handled by a military system..or simply vanish after capture.

Hmm, idea forming.......