nexus

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield

The picture was very cool too. Doesn't look like the artwork will be problem at all. I don't really care that much about art in books but its nice to have. It's basically gravy, IMO, but in this case the gravy looks good.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield

While I have no doubt that a number of people do' date=' it should probably be left to Steve to decide what information he wants to have "leaked".[/quote']

 

I don't know the nature of any NDAs that might be in place but I assumed if they did and could they might and if they didn't or couldn't they wouldn't but there was harm in asking either way.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield

Second, Explosion has been folded into AoE as a modifier to that Advantage. This saves some space in the book, but more importantly it makes it possible to build things like Cone Explosions and Line Explosions more easily.

Not a bad idea. Explosion really is an AOE variant anyway. I wonder if it will still be possible to vary the fade rate for explosion

Third, I’ve added a type of Area called Surface. This allows a character to apply a power to a surface (such as the floor, or a wall), then have that power automatically affect anyone who touches that surface. (Typically these powers are Constant, of course, so the effect can last for awhile.) I’m sure you can easily think of lots of applications, such as creating ice sheets on the ground or electrified fences. But the power construct that really sold me on this concept was the old Superman chestnut, “I use my heat vision to make his gun so hot he has to let it go!”. That’s AoE (Surface) applied to the gun; if the guy holding the gun doesn’t let go, he takes damage from the red-hot metal.

 

Once I began thinking about the possibilities in Area Of Effect (Surface), it changed my thinking about how to revamp that old HERO System favorite, Damage Shield. I’d initially planned to revise it using Trigger, but then a better idea hit me: a Damage Shield is just a Constant Area Of Effect (Surface) applied to one’s self — the Surface is the character’s body. Anyone who touches it, or gets touched by it in certain ways, suffers the effect. Conceptually and mathematically this worked out quite well, and I think you’re going to have a lot of fun with it.

Very different. I'm curious about what the base effect will be and how much increasing it will cost.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield

Interesting changes. Anyone know what the base standard for AOE: Surface will be?

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

An idea struck me for a Method C

Purchase the shapeshift and get levels with Stealth and Concealment that only work in water and a high Contortionist skill that are tied to the shapeshift. That was get about what the player seems to want. Alternately they could get a high Power Skill with Shapeshift and use it as complimentary to those skills.

Re: Justifying Playable SPD

I mean, sure, I COULD run the game to CU standards, but that's really not the story I want to tell with that game.

I agree with Bloodstone. There's very few published characters that I can use unaltered (different settings, different preferences and all).

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

It's an interesting discussion. If the power was Shapeshifting into a tree and the character was in a forest, would you:

 

1. Determine that opponents cannot tell the character from the other trees without using some other sense (similar to invisibility)?

2. Allow opponents a PER roll to determine if one of the trees was a character (similar to stealth)?

3. Allow all opponents to see that there is a character in the shape of a tree present because he did not buy invisibility (no effect on PER)?

In any case, he'd be a really short tree

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

Well running with more official numbers

Method A

13 Water Form: Shape Shift (Sight and Touch Groups)

Method B

16 Water Form 1: Desolidification , Limited Power Power loses less than a fourth of its effectiveness (Does not provide immuntanity to sonar, smell, etc; +0) (40 Active Points); Does Not Protect Against Damage (-1), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2)

6 Water Form 2: Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only in Water; -1 1/2), Chameleon (-1/2), Linked (Water Form; -1/4)

An EC actually made it slightly more expensive. (25 points total). I guess it comes down what the GM feels most accurately reflect the mechanical effects the power would have and what price seems fair for the utility of those effects.

Re: your pcs might be OVERPOWERED IF...

Dr. Destroyer refers to them as "Sir" and "ma'm" in subdued tones.

Re: Justifying Playable SPD

One alternate way to view Spd (totally unsupported by the books and just a POV thing) is "air time" or page count. The PC are among the main characters in their respective stories, shows or comics so they get more of it even its not "justified" in game. IOW, they get compatible Speeds with the rest of their more innately superhuman companion a bit slower comparable to the campaign scale but it justified narratively instead of by in game reality (super reflexes, hyper trained combat skills, etc).

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

This is all well and good - but it makes the assumption that these are the primary desires of the Characters build, and not just some useful benefits of clever use of another Power.

 

Shapshift provides a whole different suite of capabilities - and as has been pointed out has several different possibly undersireable mechanical aspects.

Those were the effects the OP asked about so I assume they are the main benefits the player wants: impossible/extremely difficult to detect in water and the ability to "flow" like water. I admit to have difficulty thinking what other major benefits he would want from Shapeshift: One form: Water (which to be pedantic isn't a "form" its a substance and seems to precedent like Shapeshift: One form: uranium or granite and expecting to freebies for it)

Even the flowing like water ability is somewhat questionable since the character can only later their size and mass by +/- 10 percent so doing things like flowing under doors and down regular sized pipes, etc seems questionable.

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

This is a good comparison but please note that the cost of Desolidifcation includes the inability to be detected by Sonar, Radar, and Scent (147) and Only Works in Water is a -1 1/2 limitation (299).

Actually I was assuming the "Does not move through solid object negates the sensory bonus (which are a another "freebie" assumed special effect thing IMO).

Only works in Water is almost equal to one charge, never recovers or No Conscious Control? Didn't know that was some official ruling but not in any campaign I'll run unless its taking place somewhere like Dune. I can see an argument where it might be higher than -1/2 but not quite that high.

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

Well, looking at the situation cost wise

Water Form A

13 Water Form: Shape Shift (Sight and Touch Groups) 1end per phase

Water Form B

16 Desolidification (40 Active Points); Does Not Protect Against Damage (-1), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2)

8 Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points); Chameleon (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only in water; -1/2), Linked (Desolidification; -1/2)

Total 6 Endurance per turn.

The Shapeshift method is definitely the better deal (even more so if the Gm won't waive that rule that requires "Affects Real World" on attack for Method B. You could put the first two powers in an EC that might reduce the cost a little.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I do wish people weren't so insistent upon points having any intrinsic worth; they are a fiat system for measuring relative power and not the gold standard. It costs what it costs and, if a 4th Ed character that cost 324 pts cost 362 pts in 5th Ed and will cost 451 pts in Sex Ed, if the game is still fun and everybody is happy then game on! Life's too short to do bookkeeping for fun.

The issue for me isn't that point have intrinsic value but that I don't like juggling with lots of points to create a character. A higher base to get the same results is a turn off for me. It has nothing to do with high points=automatically bad but it is another reason I prefer low point games.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Hmm...since there's no figureds, would the following be considered legit now?

 

STR 60

CON 30

BODY 10

PD 40

ED 30

STUN 20

 

(basically, a brick who takes little to no damage from an average physical attack, can be dropped by a pushed EB, and can be knocked out by a pushed haymaker punch)

I can't see why not. Though its legitimate in 5th too.

Re: Golden Girl

Novice Superhero seems more like a physical limitation (she can't be mind controlled to not be a novice) and might be difficult to make calls on as a GM. Basically you'd have to determine when she was behaving "too experienced" which can be tough. I'd suggest maybe using the Grace Under Fire rules and giving Pre attacks in superheroic combat and other stressful heroic situations a small bonus. She might suffer CV or skill penalties in some situations, like trying to coordinate attacks with team mates, for example. A die or two of Unluck with sfx:Rookie Mistakes might represent this is a less fiat driven manner if you prefer.

Tries to be a good superhero could be interesting. What does she consider a "good superhero"? Will she be moralizing to "youth" to stay in school, posing dramatically when she should be acting or making bombastic speeches allot and otherwise doing "impressive and heroic" things rather than "tactically sound or sensible" things?

Re: Golden Girl

Here's Golden Girl, my cheerleader/energy projector:

 

I don't see anything...

Re: Hero Extreme Edition

I can't see a game with this degree of granularity being popular among anything but a very select niche market of hardcore Game Mechanics. With that much division and things to purchase to make even the simplest of characters it probably would be sort of an example of some of the hyperbolic complaints leveled at Hero.

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

My initial instinct is Cheeze. If the primary effect the player is looking for is to be (nearly) undetectable in a specific situation and avoid constraints it seems like limited but dependable invisibility and desol* is what they're looking for and this is an attempt to lump two other Powers under another to save points. Its a bad precedent, IMO for things like "Shapeshift: One form: Transparent or Shapeshift One form: Rubber or some other substance or material and getting "free" effects from it.

*As an alternative linked skills/skills bonuses for Contortionist, Stealth, Concealment might reasonable and I'd possible give some situational bonus but it would be very specific. He'd be able to conceal himself in still water much easier than moving water, for example.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD

Do we even know if 6E permits selling back Characteristics? Without Figured Characteristics' date=' there's going to be a lot less probability of having "excess" Characteristics in the first place; much less needing a mechanism to sell them back. Why would any hero want Characteristics below the baseline of a Normal in any genre?[/quote']

 

Not any genre. Some guys where you play extremely low powered characters (even children) almost require it. And some GMs treat 8 as the base stat for regular Joe not 10 (It represents the cinematic trope that even ostensibly "normal" heroes are a little better off) The official standard seems to bounce around a little.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Well' date=' really, this isn't a matter of [i']my[/i] experience: I'm talking about the only objective thing about it, that, on paper Figured Characteristics give you a big ol' cost break that No Figured doesn't actually fully refund. I've long argued that this is illusory, that the perception of getting too many points back is because they are not priced correctly (or, at least, offset well by everyone else getting EC's), but there you go. I've personally never had any of these things break the game, though I admit I've just let people get away with not taking No Figured and come up with an explanation if it was necessary to be effective.

That's the thing. I've never ran into a situation where it was nessescary. Either no one made up the sort of characters were it comes up or they found away around it (PA character either didn't take it, got their "figured" OIF or didn't muss with them as it wasn't to come concept for example). I suppose it could have just been luck or ignorance but in any case dropping them is more a hassle for me that keeping them. I can understand it's the opposite for some but that's where I stand on it and it's a reason not to switch for me. Totally subjective as it is.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

You lose more points from taking the Limitation than the Limitation gives you, especially if you plan to buy back some of them, which almost every character will do. My Powered Armor makes me very strong, but its STR doesn't give me PD or STUN or REC, so I have to buy them up separately if I want them? Ugh, I'll just not take the Limitation and give it a special effect that allows for such things. STUN alone already loses you more points than you gained by not taking No Figured Characteristics, if you want it.

Well, I'm not going to dismiss what you say. We all have different gaming experiences and perhaps my style just fell into synch with this particular issue so it didn't get annoying. There's probably a few things that bug me that were never a problem for you and your players. Thanks for the thought out and civil response.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #2: New Combat Maneuvers; Objects As Weapons

All depends on the definition of MPA in relation to Power (the system mechanic) vs power (the thing you build form the mechanics). If your 'Flare Blast' is built as a compound 8d6 EB + 4d6 Flash it may well count as a single power and thus not count as an MPA. We'll have to wait until we see the full MPA write-up to know.

Maybe Unified Power or some new/revised version of Linked will cover this aspect. I was wondering if Unified Power did effectively make two or more Powers act as one in all ways including activation and use.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #2: New Combat Maneuvers; Objects As Weapons

Color me impressed.

 

This makes me curious about Martial Maneuvers now, seeing as how all of them can be simulated with Basic Combat Maneuvers, CSL's, and Multiple Attack now.

Well, we haven't seen a Disable, Exert or Flash Basic maneuver or some of the other elemens that can be applied while building Martial Arts Maneuvers. Given some comments MA in the past I suspect they'll remain (much) the same but only time will tell. Personally, I see a place for them. I used the MA design rules to create 0 pt maneuvers for some games and players still purchased MA both for the additional elements and the better quality of MA. Same as the strike maneuvers could always be simulated (to some extent) with CSL but players still purchasd things like Martial Strike.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD

Not quite related to the new advantage' date=' but if you have to buy up your CVs from scratch, what's to prevent most people from having OMCV of 3 (or even 1 by selling back) and DMCV of 8? Or for that matter, a mentalist with no physical attacks from having an OCV of 1 and DCV of 10?[/quote']

 

As far as we've seen now nothing in particular but point cost that I noticed but we haven't seen everything.