nexus

Re: Champions 6th version

I agree, in general; especially with the part I emphasized above. I was trying to show the distinction between expressing one's opinion vs. (for example) encouraging folks on the boards to forego 6th and try to find copies of 5th instead.

I don't see anything wrong with latter if some one starts a thread with a subject such as "Which should I buy 5th or 6th edition?" I guess I'm not seeing where concerns about "bashers" are coming from as I haven't seen cases that match the criteria you suggest though perhaps I just missed them.

Re: Mutants and Masterminds: Why did you stay/come back?

A certain amount of thread digression is inevitable. But I'll try to be pertinent in future.

I didn't mean specifically your post. It was just odd when the first few were praising Mutants and Masterminds. But the opening post and thread title were misleading which probably explains it.

Re: Champions 6th version

At the moment, any assumptions about the quality of 6th edition great or terrible are educated guesses informed on what we've been told, emotion and opinions of previous changes at best.

Right now I'm willing to see more but given that previews haven't impressed me that much and several have been active disappointments I'm not optimistic. But I'll see what comes up when the book is released and there is more completely discussion about it. But I'm not going to run out and get it as soon as it hits the shelves.

Re: Champions 6th version

Then you fit into the former category; I doubt that the proprietors of these board would have a problem with your continued presence and contributions' date=' so long as your contributions are something other than repeating your negative opinions of 6th [i']ad infinitum[/i].

There are already posters that present negative views of Hero overall and have for years. They haven't been asked to leave that I know of. I think it would be a sad turn in the nature of the board if that changed particularly to a "Hero: love it or GTFO" degree. It's not like the Hero boards are the only places Hero is discussed and the last thing I think the game needs are more bitter ex-fans badmouthing it around the internet. Personally, I don't think DOJ will take such a stance.

Re: Mutants and Masterminds: Why did you stay/come back?

Ah. My apologies. I misunderstood the nature of your request.

 

I now recuse myself from the discussion.

It's okay the thread title and part of the OP were misleading. No apologies necessary.

Re: Waking up with super powers

Marvel's New Universe did it, The novel series "Wild Cards" did it (even though it was in the 30s), and even the TV show Heroes did it. What am I talking about?

 

A sudden emergence of super powers. So I was thinking...

 

What would you really do if you woke up with super powers?

 

What kind of powers would you like to have?

 

What kind of powers would you NOT like to have?

 

Would it matter if only 1 in a billion people had powers vs 1 in 100 million, or even 1 in a million?

 

Would you tell others?

 

How do you think your life would change?

 

Any other thoughts on the subject or questions that need to be asked (that I didn't think of)?

I'm running three campaigns with this premise (or very similar) (Seeds of Change, The Awakening and Empowered) and playing in one. I've found you have to PCs that are interested int being active rather the reactive. There won't be most of the traditional plot hooks and tropes to drag them into adventures (unless the GM provides them such an alien invasion or focusing play on finding why this is happening as two examples).

You can end up with some PCs going "Okay, I have powers...now what?" since there isn't a innate urge towards heroism or villainy. Some might just want to live normal lives (particularly if their powers don' compliment their life choices), get rich or famous but not particularly put themselves in danger.

Power level, IME, determines a great deal. If they are like the characters in Heroes, Typical Joes and Janes with a power or two character will more likely be "passive" than if they're full blown or even high powered supers (like in Supreme Power).

Re: Mutants and Masterminds: Why did you stay/come back?

hopefully

I'm going to see if I can have the thread title changed. Perhaps that will clear things up.

Re: Mutants and Masterminds: Why did you stay/come back?

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I wasn't asking why you (general you) chose to go to M and M. I was asking if you did try it and decided to stay with Champions what influenced that choice. I'm sure M and M is a great system but praising it isn't' really the point of the thread.

Re: Confedrate Comics

The thing is we know almost nothing about the setting except there is a Confederate States of America which has a been a popular idea for alternate universe practically sense the civil war. I think the flying off and assuming the OP was trying to play out some racist fantasy is jumping the gun. He may well have been or just trolling but we don't know enough to slam the guy. For the record, I'm black and I think it could very well be an interesting setting if handled well.

Re: effective megascale teleport

Megascale has always been one of those things that has niggled at me: we can do all that stuff' date=' we are just not happy about how much it costs.[/quote']

 

Megascale bugs me too. I like some of the things it does but it raises so many exceptions and necessary handwaving that it annoys me a little as well.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

Whereas what I've been seeing is at least some of the people who want Block and Dodge to only be usable with limited SFX telling the rest of us the we're doing it wrong.

What does that have to do with discussion of whether or not a particular poster thinks the chin block sfx is acceptable or not? I wasn't committing on that issue in the post you quoted but specifically about the chin block argument.

The rules don't put those kind of limitations on the maneuvers.

I want to see how strongly worded the text is about ranged deflections and objects before I make any calls on that. The snippet we have seems a bit heavy handed.

But you're right normally the rules don't but GMs can and do. Whatever someone does in their game isn't going to change the book. I'm not going to use the free Ranged Block but that's going to change the text.

I at least have not been telling anyone that if they want to limit what SFX they are willing to allow for Blocks and Dodges that they are doing anything wrong. I've just been pointing out that such limitations aren't part of RAW.

And I didn't name you specifically.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

Or' date=' y'know, we could trust that the campaigns using these rules all have GMs, and that the GMs will realize that a Chin Block might be an appropriate SFX for Block in a 4-color Supers game, but not in a gritty realistic Cops and Crooks game... [/quote']

 

That's the right answer but the people that are saying they wouldn't use the "chin block" at all are getting allot of "You're doing it wrong" for their opinion. It's an optional sfx limitation on a maneuver similar the suggestion in 6th edition that you need some kind of object or whatever to block certain sfx of ranged attacks. This seems to just be bickering over who's opinion is right.

 

And I have nothing against the Chin Block, for the record.

Re: Worth a thousand words?

Here's a recent one that might prompt some ideas

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

Golly. I had posted something four pages ago, but it looks to have been eaten. For the most part, smarter people than I have said what I said, so I'll skip it.

 

What I haven't seen yet is a discussion about whether the ability to buy attacks against non standard defenses (mentioned earlier) could or should imply (yes, I know) the possibility of buying non standard defenses against attacks. DECV (or whatever the new name is) vs. OCV, OCV vs. OCV, DCV (as a Block) vs OCV, etc.

I do remember some discussion about discussions about changing CVs used earlier in the thread but I don't recall the exact posts.

Thoughts (aside from the "all change is bad" crowd")?

I don't think any one has said or implied they think any changes in Hero System are bad. There have been those that dislike some or most of the changes of the changes they've seen so far and there are those that feel the system needs only minor tweaks or that the problems others see don't bother them. Much of this is subjective, after all.

Some Hero System/Champions fans tried Mutants and Masterminds and returned to Champions. I wanted to know why. What unsold you on M and M?

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

I'm starting to notice something interesting...

 

IMO (and I thought almost all HERO players' opinions), the separation of SFX and mechanics in the HERO System is one of its key strengths... one of the things that makes it both different from and superior to other systems.

 

But it's starting to look like some of the changes that some folks are reacting somewhat negatively to in 6E, are changes that are increasing the separation of mechanics and SFX. They're stripping out ways that the mechanics tacitly assumed or enforced specific SFX before. (Or in some cases, making the system less tied to its original superhero genre.) And in doing so, they make the system more flexible, basically by definition.

 

I would have thought that almost all HERO players would like that, because it's playing right into one of the system's key features. So it's interesting to me that some folks are balking at them. I didn't expect that... I'm not sure I understand why someone would be okay with the idea that a lightning bolt and fire blast are just two possible SFX of Energy Blast, but would strongly object to the idea of "I parry his sword with my sword" and "I step inside the reach of his sword" just being two possible SFX of Block...

I don't think any one that's been a long timer Hero player is opposed to keeping sfx and mechanics independent but just that we all have different ideas of where we draw the line; where the division "feels" right. I'm in the "the ability to actively defend" against ranged atacks (particularly bullets and other "faster than the eye can see" sfx should be a buy in ability not a universal one (in most campaigns). That's just an opinion though, no more or less valid than those that feel a Block requires and imposition of something yourself and the attack and shouldn't be aggressive evasion or similar oddball sfx ("At the last instant before the attack, Mister Mind launches a desperate Mind Control "nudge" to push the villlain's aim off!" as a Block)

Though with 6th edition's option for getting DCV with Unified Power you could make some interesting builds along these lines similar to Limited Combat skill levels.

Re: Confedrate Comics

Now just for fun here's this:

 

Wow. do the wingnuts ever come out in force in the comments section of the video though.....

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

Fair enough. For me though I'd say that Dodge is appropriate when you are just trying to make yourself generally hard to hit (passive defense), and Block is appropriate whenever you are doing something actively about a particular attack (active defense).

I did like a suggestion tossed around on the 6th forums to change the names from Block and Dodge to "Active Defense" and Full Defense as more sfx neutral terms.

Re: Poll: What do you play

Post Apocalypse

Street Level Vigilante/Supers

Two "people with powers" style games

Interdimensional explorers (similar to Sliders)

A couple of Fantasy Hero campaigns (one high fantasy the other swords and sorcery (and chainmail bikinis)

Occult Investigators

Modern Fantasy Lycanthropes

A "teen champions" style game with a "villain" group and a "hero" group

A martial arts game based loosely on Enter the Dragon

A Gestalt game

I ran a Zombie horror game at one time and probably a few others that have slipped my mind

Re: Making sense of Senses

Here's a question: If a character does get their Normal Senses fully Discriminatory (or Analytical) should they get the benefits of the sense based Talents (Absolute Range Sense, Perfect Pitch, etc) included (perhaps requiring a Perception roll)?

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

Well, it's not a deal breaker just another house rule I'd have to implement if I did switch or something I wouldn't import if I didn't, barring some further aspects of the rules that make the idea more appealing.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

Guys' date=' it is usually a bad idea to try to block a sword with your bare hands too. I see this as no real different from that. I usually handle it by assigning a (large) penalty to the Block (difficult but not impossible, since you can get close enough to block the hilt or the attacker's body if you are really careful). [/quote']

 

That's a fair gm call for you to make but there is no default penalty for Blocking anything (currently). What's a good idea or bad idea varies from setting to setting, genre to genre as well as character to character. A character might do the cinematic "blade clapping" trick, bat/kick the weapon aside by the flat or any other stunt that would probably cost you a limb in real life or be impossible (I briefly focus my chi and harden my palm to bounce the blade.")

 

One of the things I like about Hero currently is that, as a universal system, it makes as few assumptions as possible about how each game is going to to work. Assumption being to defined as "coded into the core rules." For me it really depends on how it's phrased. IIRC, there is some additional notation to Block that says in a more realistic game the GM might want to assign penalties Block against weapons, exceedingly powerful attacks, etc. But also Block does not necessarily mean "parry". It can have other special effects. A "Block" might be a type of aggressive feint/dodge combo that unbalances the attacker and lets the defender act before them while they recover.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

DBZ characters routinely swat incoming energy blasts out of the way using their bare hands. Sometimes comic book characters do perform the equivalent of a "chest block" against a big EB (which is presumably worth a big PRE attack bonus), though those characters generally are of the very tough/nigh invulnerable variety.

 

So I'd say it's genre and archetype/concept-specific vis a vis whether an object is needed to deflect.

I don't think it'd be appropriate for the Hulk to snatch a bullet out of the air, but Quicksilver might be able to pull it off. Certainly Supes has done that more than once.

I agree. That's why I think it should be an ability that you have to pay for instead of innate. Unless it is a setting like DBZ where it's almost literally an "Everyman (Saiyan)" Power.

I'm sorry, I phrased my initial question poorly. What I wasn't clear on was what exactly the difference is between the "partial" Discriminatory base Human sense were described to possess and full Discriminatory which requires points. I didn't see anything in the book covering this area. I recently had a character who's Normal Senses were all upgraded to full Discriminatory.

Re: Reality Alteration: Welcome to the comics

This maybe a Major transform with AoE Megascale' date=' Uncontrollable, NND: Mental Defense and Limited to the one effect.[/quote']

 

The GM and I are toying around with then EDM build at the moment. Transform was a thought but we weren't sure how to quantify things like altering history, physical laws, etc.