shuddemell

Ultimately, as a general rule, players are lazy. This at least has been my experience, and it just doesn't amount to physical laziness, it is more intellectual laziness, would rather go with what they know, rather than learn something new, even if it is infinitely better.

I would hardly say you can call my concern unfounded, as they are nearly a year late (SO FAR) and have not completed the project. Whatever your experience may be, it, like mine is one persons experience. The difference I mention is with professional publishers I have worked for, a delay this long would mean a cancelled contract and no project. I have no doubt that they intend to finish, but my concern is hardly misplaced or unfounded. In addition, I believe there is a small misconception about my concern. It seems as if my concern is the small bit of money I pledged... it is not. That will neither make or break me, so by itself it isn't that important. My concern is the lack of professionalism shown in kickstarters in general. It is one thing to call it a hobby, but to treat it as a business for profit, certain standards should be maintained that are not presently.

Lucius, Actually, I would be glad to do just that. However, in some ways I already am, myself and a couple others are already working a quicky adventure, so that is where I will put my efforts for the moment. Ndreare, Nice work, this is exactly the type of thing that I was talking about!

Nice work!

Of course I realize this, but I also don't suppose that anyone running a business or engaging in business shouldn't be expected to be professional. I never said it wasn't going to get made, I suggested that if it was a professional publishing house that these kinds of delays would likely mean it would never happen, and had I known that this was a second job/hobby I probably would not have backed it, because it is likely that it will never get made. I truly hope it does get made, I still think it a worthwhile project, I just have lost any hope of it happening before I pass the half century mark. I also realize the risk with Kickstarter in general that this may happen. I knew that and wouldn't seek legal remedy because of it. However, that being said, that doesn't mean I don't have the right to feel let down and disappointed that a supposed commercial venture is treated as a hobby/second job. At least armed with that information, I could have made a more informed choice about where to place my hard earned money.

Actually it would be great if everyone that had a setting did publish it. I know that however won't happen. As far as the work goes, that was the point in collaboration, and I am willing to do some of it. Whether it is appealing or not, well that is why I pitched the idea. I just feel that it is too easy to get mired in discussions of minutia to the point that no progress will ever be made toward something. Also, if I take your point of view of what's the point? Who will do the work? Reductio ad absurdam tells me to not bother trying to bolster Fantasy Hero at all, after all it will be a thankless job... Actually, this point really encapsulates both the strengths and weaknesses of Hero as a system as well. There are usually half a dozen ways to do things in Hero.. and if you ask the board you get a dozen different ways.. which is expected.. the real problem is everyone has their way, and for them it is the BEST way. That isn't a feasible viewpoint for a coop project. So, my point of view was simply to allow those that wish to, to present their way and see what stellar ideas come up. I don't really think being "official" or not is a deal breaker anyway, since the whole point would be to stimulate the new players to try Hero out. So take this idea with a grain of salt... because I am quickly beginning to see the backflow of naysaying becoming untenable.

Not presently, but I have in the past... In addition it is really immaterial, because if they are doing it as a hobby and a second job, they should factor that into their schedule. I understand missed deadlines and all, but we are talking about a year or more, so that explanation, though understandable should have been factored into the equation. This is exactly what I mean about professionalism... if you are not a professional writer/publisher/graphic artist... fine, tell everyone so there are no expectations. I probably would NOT back a project by someone that was in that position due to the likelihood that I would never get it. It is sad, but my funds and time are limited just like theirs. BTW, I manage a career, family life and am finishing my degree in Chemistry as we speak, so I understand all these pressures, but I am still expected to do all these things to a schedule without excuse.

Yeah, as another backer of what seemed like a good project to support hero, I am disappointed with the whole handling of this. I expected a level of professionalism with regard to such public projects associated with Kickstarter. And overall I have not been too disappointed, but it is obvious from this and others that there is NO guarantee that people presenting as professionals actually are and obviously their optimism about their projects certainly lends them to a very optimistic appraisals of their timelines. I work in print professionally, so I really do know what it takes to make a book happen, and if this was going to happen, it already would have. I don't doubt the good faith of the people working on this, but though faith can move mountains, it won't beat reality no matter the intent.

Once again folks, at this point I will restate... This is why I suggested a contest... That way everyone presents their ideas about a Fantasy integrated into a setting... and then the best is chosen. The way this is going, there will NEVER be a consensus as to which method is best or should even be used. It will be a constant push and pull of each individuals preferences and predilections... and since I believe magic system, et al is essential to the look and feel of the setting, this would probably be an insurmountable roadblock to any collaborative project. Though I like the idea of everyone pitching ideas to get the best, BEST is subjective and consensus is not possible.

"'Blasphemy?' Before what, 'God?' A God repulsed by the miserable humanity he created in his own image? I will not be shackled by the failures of your God. The only 'blasphemy' is to wallow in insignificance! I have taken the refuse of your God's failures, and I have triumphed!" —Herbert West, Bride of Re-Animator. By the way, Dr. Evil... right on!

Any assistance I can provide, I would be glad to do so, though my skills are mostly useful for print and web work (graphic designer and prepress tech)...

Agreed, I have been in it since '78 and it certainly is a different beast. Likewise, I am just wanting to expand the community (and as a by product) finding new Hero gamers to game with... Likewise, in regard to the ideas about magic systems, I can post a pdf of the one I use in my High Fantasy Campaign if anyone cares to see what I do with it, but once again, I think simpler in this case is better.

Been out of pocket for the last couple of days. The brainstorming seems like it is proceeding quite nicely, however I would suggest that perhaps the first thing would be a setting neutral starting adventure. Rather than worry so much about licensing at first, it would be easier to avoid that and come up with a simple quick start. It could be tied into TA or other thing later, but to avoid licensing issues, et al, it seems easier to leave it neutral. Otherwise there are some good ideas, and hopefully something will gel pretty quickly. Any further ideas on division of labor, et al? Really, in my mind, is to let people know that Hero can do "D&D" style, as well as any others. Once the hook is set, well then is when we can begin to reel them in. From a copyright point of view, we may be able to avoid any major issues if the first thing we do is offered for FREE. I never anticipated or wanted to profit, except in the sense of creating a much larger Hero community...

The only real issue with cross-platform will be fonts. Some don't cross the threshold well, but otherwise, yeah no real problems there. As far as where we work.... I would suggest here until a rough framework of people and "duties" is hashed out, and then via email and perhaps keeping live files in a dropbox account all the people involved have access to. This seems to be the easiest way considering the obvious separation of time, location and duties this entails.

Also, please everyone put out the call here on Hero, because I think we should get as much input as possible. There are some incredibly inventive and talented people on here, and their input will be invaluable to a project such as this.

Good, I have access to Adobe CC and every version before that. I typically do all my text work in InDesign, though I also have access to MS word and virtually any other DTP or GA program. Also, I do all my work in the Mac OS, though I can transliterate, etc if need be. I think the first thing to be determined is if we want to have people pitch settings first (which seems the natural order) or build pieces willy-nilly and then shoe horn them in.

Okay, at this point, it might be useful to get some commitment from folks concerning particular tasks, etc. For myself aside from "creative" work, I can do typsetting, graphics creation, layout, PDF and Ebook creation, as well as some web/IT tasks. Another thought occurred to me, that we may actually want to build a website to better facillitate the process of tracking and coordinating this project.

Yeah, I think is the general path this should take, a pretty straightforward "flow-chart" to a character... If you make characters easy to build, you've beaten at least half of the complaints I have ever heard concerning Hero. A set of career paths, some racial backgrounds, starting gear packages.. that sort of thing goes a long way towards getting the unwashed masses playing, at least in my opinion.

Yeah, actually the term dumbed down really isn't so much what I meant. I guess what I mean is to not necessarily show the nuts and bolts under the hood, but rather use evocative "flavor" text to capture the feel. At first anyway, players don't necessarily need or want to know how it works, but rather just what it does in plain english. NuSoardGraphite & shuddemell: Thanks to both of You (and anyone else who thought of this...). I was thinking this...but wanted to see if anyone else had a similar thought. I'm fine with producing modules (and other Source Materials) for Hero. We'd have to be careful to not violate any Hero Games Copyrights. Producing a Hero Fantasy Product would be OK, but producing one to plug into the Turakian Age wouldn't be (Not saying that's what you were suggesting...). Things would have to be "Generic" in nature. Hosting at Hero...I believe that Hero has a place for that under Downloads here on the Boards. I suspect though that you meant another location at Hero? Isn't one of the Fantasy settings being updated for 6e? Not sure it would need to be "dumbed down" exactly; maybe the "Powers" could be explained in the "flavor text" (while including the write-ups) so that new players could get a feel of how the "Powers" work. ~ M

Yes, obviously this would be ideal. However, from what I have seen, the settings offered for Fantasy Hero have not been updated for 6th Edition, and unfortunately they aren't particularly well recieved overall, in my experience. I do think either a website or a linked thread to a Grimoire, Equipment, Bestiary, et al, would work well tied to one of the existing settings. However, this may involve some copyright issues we would have to work out with the powers that be, and since none of the previous offerings have been particularly evocative to gamers at large, it may be wiser to retool and create a fan based option of what we collectively love about hero. My personal opinion is that though I have liked some of the company offerings for Fantasy Hero, they may be a too "Hero" approach at first, and maybe we need to (excuse the term) dumb it down for new folks, because likelihood is, the vast majority of tinkering will be done by the ref, and not by the players.

Right on Narf! I think that is exactly the ticket, perhaps run it as a Hero Board contest at first, and narrow down to say half a dozen, and then go public with it to do the final winnowing. I think this may be the only way we can effectively get an idea that enough people are on board with to make a run at actually popularizing Fantasy Hero. I am not sure the exact details of crowdsource as opposed to say a kickstarter, but actually, at first anyway, it would be all donation. That is people willing to do it would do it without expectation of pay, et al. Since it would be peer review, hopefully enough viewpoints and perspectives would guide us in a popular and ultimately profitable direction.

It occurs to me, that maybe an idea to get a fantasy setting rolling is doing something similar to what WOTC did ( I know, gasp! The Horror!). But perhaps we could have a contest like they did to launch Eberron. Have anyone that wishes pitch their own setting and have all the folks here select one and then provide community support to make it happen. Obviously, this would require some coordination.. but on the positive side it would be of no cost to hero until it was ready to publish. I believe we have enough talented and imaginative folks here that we could really do something worthwhile with just a little sweat from our brows, and more to the point help Fantasy Hero flourish. It could be something that was added to Dungeon Hero (or whatever it ends up being called) or even given as a free PDF. I myself work as a professional graphic designer, typesetter and prepress technician and would be glad to donate some of my time for such a project. It seems to me that I often see discussions of what can be done, and lots of time is spent reading and writing about it to no avail. Maybe that energy would be better used actually doing something, even if it failed, it would certainly feel more satisfying than lamenting the current state of Hero.

Probably because it seems more math intensive to some people. Just a guess though.

If you have a full version of acrobat, you can resave it as an optimized pdf and ofttimes it will get way smaller, plus you control how low res the pics go, etc.