Rapier

Re: What's the best way to learn Hero?

Uhm... guys... (other guy flipping through the book)... about that "inch" thing...

 

(Note that we missed the -1 per five inches of movement, too, or he'd never have hit. We laughed about this one for years!)

I was extremely, extremely fortunate to be introduced to Hero (circa 1991) by an old skool Hero player that had been playing since 1ed. However, we did teach ourselves Shadowrun. I had a similar experience with my first ManaBolt.

Shadowrun has this strange damage meter (for Body/HPs). 4 slots of Mental and 4 Slots of physical. When you chunk up 4 Slots of Mental, the damage leaks over into physical. I cast my first Manabolt and the thug went from fully healed to dead (through all 4 mental boxes and all 4 physical boxes and some left over). We later learned even more...that while mana bolt targetted the mental attribute, it did physical damage. So I should have actually killed him like twice or thrice over instead of just once.

Re: The big arcade competition

Um, sort of. I have a (bootleg, with multikit) Galaga mini in the bedroom. A Japanese sit at 29" screen Neo Geo and a Midway cocktail (with multigame installed) in the living room. Along with Space War, Star Wars, Stunt Cycle, Roadblasters, Defender (with multi-williams kit), STUN Runner, High Impact, Sega Turbo, and a generic cabinet in the game room.

 

There are another dozen machines in various states of broken in my basement, and at least 40 working boardsets in my closet.

I SOOOOOOO wanna come visit!!!

Talk about a blast from the past!

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

It's particularly useful when there I have to create a number of villains from scratch.

Hmm. Now that does sound a bit useful. We play online so sometimes I have weeks (or even a month) to prep. But sometimes we can get on a roll and I only have 48 hours. And I do use a LOT of guest appearances/cameos/1 shot characters to distract them and intertwine with the main plot line. There are times I've even rooted around in the forums for some character writeups and stolen them, because I was so short on time.

Damn. Now I'm really gonna have to give this some thought. ARGH!

Decisions, decisions. It's all Steve's fault! He's writing too fast!

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

It's also very handy for quickly providing powers for Variable Power Pools.

Oh gods, I never even thought of that. We've got one player that has this character he plays occassionally. Some cruddy stats and a 300pt VPP.

Now before I begin, I'm not disparaging the book or Steve or anyone.

I stopped in to see my friends at the local gaming shop and perused some of the Hero books. I've allowed myself a limited budget of gaming materials for my next purchase and want to maximise them dollars.

I've been playing Hero for 13 years now and GMing it for 12. There is not a whole lot of help I need in how to design powers etc. I was looking through the UNTIL SuperPowers Database. It was interesting. But I didn't really see anything in there that I really needed. It was fun to look through and see all the powers and constructions and all, but I'm not sure the cost/benefit analysis is for it.

And I don't doubt for a minute that I will eventually end up owning the book, but do I backshelf that purchase? I was wondering how much actual use you have gotten out of it. Am I missing something? Did I misunderstand its role?

I've got one slot left in my shopping cart and I'm considering Villainy Amok or Ultimate Mystic instead (yes I know they are not out yet).

Thoughts?

Re: The big arcade competition

I mainly remember playing Pac-Man and Moon Patrol A LOT when I was that young.

I've only got 4 years on ya, but apparently there was quite a bit in them 4 years!

I was a SpyHunter FIEND. I could make it all the way through Rolling Thunder on one quarter. We don't even want to talk about the GNP of Lichenstein that I pumped into Gauntlet.

ELF IS ABOUT TO DIE!

Re: Is invisibility considered a defense?

I have never had any invisible characters in my games, but I am looking into it now.

 

Do people normally consider invisibility to be a defense in and of itself? Or is it customary to still pack on the PD and ED?

My very first Champs character was always invisible (0 End, Persis, AO). He ran around (well, flew around) for 5 or 6 games without any armour. Then (it was either Dr Destroyer or Mechanon...Dr D, I'm thinkin). Saw him on Infrared and blasted him. That hurt bad. While I had intended him to be invislbe to all sight I didn't know enough about the system to purchase Sight Group. So I spent the XP on Sight Group and did get myself a 5 DEF vest. But thats all the armour he ever wore.

As a GM I've had a couple of characters that have modelled their characters on a similar line. If a character wants to drop the Points on Invisibility, IPE and everything to make themselves not seen. I don't see any reason to create villains that can find them as a matter of course. Heck, they've probably dropped more points on invisibility than they ever would have on armour.

A nice big bag of flour helps too. Cmon CLOWN!

Re: The big arcade competition

I am of the opinion that the character with the 1 pt Defender KS has the huge advantage' date=' but I am unsure of how to translate that into game terms.[/quote']

 

This is my number one problem with Hero. Number One? Well, top 5, at least. Shadowrun does a marvelous thing with skills. They call it the Skill Web and it shows how each skill relates to another skill. Each step on the skill web is a -1 mod to the roll (actually thats +1 in Shadowrun, but its a 1 point penalty).

 

For instance (if you want more examples I could scan it...its a REALLY cool thing)...oh I think it represents best as an outline.

 

I. Charisma

1. Leadership

2. (Empty Spot)

A. Interrogation

B. Negotiation

 

Now. You are trying to Negotiate and you don't have Negotiation skill. What to do? You can use Interrogation (with a -1 penalty). You can use Leadership (at -2) or you can use Charisma (at -3). Oh, the empty spot counts as a step.

 

It makes things so much easier. Cmon, Steve, give us a Web!!

 

For your case specifically, I would say this:

 

- Guy with Defender KS is at his 8- (thats a pretty cruddy Defender score btw)

- Guy with KS Arcade Games is probably at -2 (time frame means a lot if this is 1986 its probably only -1 because we ALL played Defender back then. If the date is current day I would say -3 or -4 since these young punks dont know Defender from Donkey Kong).

- People using a computer game type skill would be another -2 from KS Arcade penalty

- People using Dex would be at another -2.

 

And I'd still be tempted to do it RL and beat the pants off em!

Re: What's the best way to learn Hero?

Find a mentor' date=' someone who knows the system fairly well and (ideally) will run games for you. Then make some characters. Don't worry about whehter the concepts are good, or whehter they're powerful enough. Just have a clear concept in mind and build to the concept; also don't try to build every single fiddling little extra bit. Once you've done that, hand your character sheets over to your mentor for critiquing; make sure he critiques only from a system standpoint.[/quote']

 

That is pretty much how I started. Never player Hero before and sat down with a friend and he helped me build my first character. The most difficult part was when he would ask "How strong do you want to be?" He kept expecting to say 18 points. Of course, at the time I didn't know what that meant. After making Jennan (my first character) we played a few games. I got a good sample of combat and things and realised that the character was not what I wanted. That was actually a really good thing as I started reading through the powers and describing them. We talked them over and eventually got the character I wanted.

 

While reading the books etc is a good way to start. I don't think you can learn many games like that. You really need someone that knows the system to hold your hand. I can't tell you the number of people I have met over the years that have taught themselves games, and have just missed some subtleties etc.

Re: Would you let this be common?

I am working on a power most spell casters in my champs game will have:

 

 

19 Spell Rituals: Aid 2d6, Can Add Maximum Of 55 Points, Variable Effect Two Powers Simultaneously (+1/2) (62 Active Points); Extra Time 1 Hour, Only to Activate Constant or Persistent Power (-1 1/2), Concentration 0 DCV (-1/2), Costs Endurance Only Costs END to Activate (-1/4)

 

Okay it will normaly be in a MP instead, might munkey with it some still

I've used a couple of similar aids. But like what seems to be the consensus usually in ritual magic situations. I also noticed there was no RSR on that bad boy. I might even consider a double RSR (Spellcasting and Ritual Magic). Another juicy tidbits is require a difficult component. There is nothing worse than letting ritual magic get too common.

"Gee we'll never beat this guy."

"Ok. everyone circle round and hold hands for the next hour while I grab a couple dozen more Active Points in my lightning bolt."

BLEH.

Role Playing Games would run a lot smoother if it wasnt for all the players.

Re: Disease

Maybe this would work as another table on the chart. Roll for base' date=' roll for modifier, roll for transmission. Maybe another roll for severity, to provide a multiplier to use against the DC of the disease.[/quote']

 

That is what I was thinking. Have a master chart that lists all aspects of disease (transmission, severity, type - hemoragic - viral - bacterial etc) and either link a verb to the aspect or have another chart for random disease names (like we've all seen for character names in fantasy games or hero team names in supers).

 

Eiiiiiiiiwwwwww. You just caught Hopping Hemoragic Malrial Bubonic Dysentary! Thats nasty. Every use of END now requires a CON roll at -4 or soil yer super-suit.

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

Also known as the 'Sauce For The Goose' date=' Sauce For The Gander' rule ... one I also employ.[/quote']

 

There's an option to not use Sauce?

 

I always laugh, shortly after I took over 1/2 of the campaign universe (I got everything except the USA) I had someone all but demand Absorbtion into his RKA. Couldn't talk him out of it, so let him have it. It wasn't 2 games later before the rest of the team demanded he drop the absorbtion. Seems they were a bit miffed at Absorbtion RKAs. Heck, its not like I need to worry about points!

Why do I get the feeling that you (Steve) stand behind your chair at the desk and check the Rules Questions board. You read the post and leap around the room making heroic point gestures, the whole time screaming out things like FAQ-ME-BABY! FAQARELLA! Indiana FAQ at the Temple of Doom!

Just thought I would pass that bit of fluff on for ya to ponder.

Re: Help Needed!!

Just off the top of my head:

I'm thinking send him away for 2 years. Then have the rest of the team pull off some miraculous save for the PM or someone high up in the government. Then this person will step in and arrange a pardon.

Or, during the sentencing (with all the heros in the courtroom) Col Annihilator announces he's got a nuke (or something else real ugly) and is gonna set it off unless he gets a Klondike Bar (or something other supervillainous fudgey treat). The only problem is that the only person that has any experience in dealing with the Colonel (or maybe has the unique Anti-Colonel-Annihilator-Paper-Umbrella)is the guy they just sentenced to 2 years. The team looks to the judge "Your call, your Honour." The judge sentences the hero to battle evil and villainy whereever it may be...for 2 years.

I hate HATE HATE HATE HATE to even mention it...god I can't believe Im even gonna say it. Dream Sequence. I'm going to rabidly deny I ever even thought of it.

I said the "D" word.

*wimper wimper cry*

Re: No progression in Champions

We have one game where Experience is no longer given, progression is completely story based, if you don't have the character doing it they will never learn it.

 

I think it's all a part of which players are involved, our other game could never work this way because some of the people in it wouldn't be able to cope without quantifying and equalizing everything that way.

We've been gaming together for over 13 years now. I've never demanded that each and every ability/power/etc be strictly accounted for. I've given away bases, vehicles, contacts, perks, skills, powers, you name it and every single one has been entirely story based.

I also think that, as a group, we greatly enjoy playing characters that are still learning rather than a hero that has already achieved 20 some-odd years of experience. We also have a fairly high character turnover rate. Each of us has a small portfolio of characters we play, depending on the needs of the story, desires of the player, etc. Sometimes you just really want to play a brick for a while. This works well since our campaign is more of an Avengers/Justice League type where whomever is on hand tackles the supervillain. When someone starts a new character they have the option of creating a character anywhere from raw opener (350pts since we converted to FREd) to the same number of points as the average of all the regular characters.

In talking this over last night, we pretty much decided that we are riding the cusp of pointless. We use many pointless advances (extra-dimensional base, vehicles, followers etc). But we still also account for many things with points. Most of us are hard science folks (physicist, chemist, engineer) and I don't think we'll ever get over the hands-on love of the numbers.

I guess what it all comes down to is "whatever works." Until I read through this article I never really considered our playstyle. It was just how we did things, and never considered that everyone might not be playing the same way.

Re: No progression in Champions

The free Digital Hero article this month discusses giving players the ability to make fully fleshed out characters without reference to point totals and then play the game with no general progression of powers or abilities.

 

I've been considering that for some time, instead of abilities getting better giving improvements in social status and access to facilities of outside organisations. The article also suggests awarding cards that could be cashed in for immediate in-game benefits.

 

Anyone tried this out for real? I'm a classic case of a Builder personality and I would have to see _something_ progress during the game.

Eh. I think that kind of takes the fun out of everything. I've always looked at it the same way I do working out. If you go and do a couple sets every day you get stronger. Most of the XP my group spends is to buy off limitations and disads. Occasionally to buy up a stat. Rarely (but it does happen) to add an extra d6 to the old EB. Sometimes instead of XP (or in addition to) I hand out a skill, perk, talent (or even a disad) that the character has been "developing" during the game.

Now, way back when I played Star Wars for a little while and they had this concept called Force Points that allowed you to reroll or some other RL effect. I tried to implement something similar in our Champions game and it just didn't work very well. What do you do when you need the players to fail a skill roll and they use the RL effect point to guarantee success? It just caused too many problems and got in the way of the story. Besides I do enough of that on my own:

Me: Roll for success

Player: I failed by 3.

Me: I don't think you heard me, Roll For Success.

Player: Um, ok, [confused] I failed by 1.

Me: ROLL FOR SUCCESS.

Player: Um, I made it?

Me: GOOD JOB!

If there is no progression of abilities, what is the impetus/the drive? I just couldn't get past the fact that using an EB with x3 END all the time (flexing a muscle) wouldn't eventually become x2 END (as the muscle gets stronger). I think that is where my Suspension of Disbelief would break down.

But thats just my £.02.

Re: Firearm Muzzle Energy

Absolutely' date=' though if you brace too well and have a very powerful weapon that is meant to recoil you will shatter your shoulder. OUCH![/quote']

 

I went to Uni with a bloke that when he was younger stood with his back to a tree when firing a shotgun. Broke his collar bone and dislocated his shoulder. Still gives him problems to this day any time the weather changes.

 

Re: Firearm Muzzle Energy

I know its not necessarily online but Jane's is ALWAYS a GREAT source for anything military (and even civillian). They very frequently show up in the bargain bin in the book stores. Everytime I see one I buy it. I can't tell you the number of times I've walked over to the bookshelf for a bit of Jane.

Re: Superleap UAA???

We've got a couple Movement Usable vs Others spells in our campaign (late 19th century, with magic).

One is "On the Wings of Angels" which is UAA (caster pays the END).

The other is "Wings of the Eagle" which is UBO (castee pays the END).

While I usually discourage most Movement Usable vs Others powers, there are legitimate uses for them. Albeit, supers is a different kettle all together, because powers are less restricted.

Keep in mind too that any UAA power is No Range (unless bought with Ranged which would kick up the point totals another bit, if even allowed), and you would be totally within your rights to require a To Hit roll as part of the activation (SFX related).

Even if someone did want to have a Movement Usable vs Others power, having one that inflicts damage is so costly that the construct quickly become more expensive than purchasing the power straight out.

Consider:

Average 35 STUN, 10 BODY - 10d6 Energy Blast (50 pts)

Average 35 STUN, 10 BODY - 20" Flight UAA (80 pts)

Assume both Attacker and Victim are standing in a parking lot. The EB can be used every phase to inflict damage, while the Flight UAA takes 3 segments to inflict the same damage (1 segement to fly Victim up 10" and then 2 segments for the character to hit the ground).

It just seems silly to waste all the points, the extra time and the cheese when I can do the same thing much simpler and more effectively with a straight out power and a SFX.

Re: Eliminating Killing Attacks

I just hate the stun multipler period. I like how Hugh called it the "Stun Lottery". That's really what it is.

Everyone always complains about the STUNx. Do you know what the STUNx is? Look at the hit location chart. The STUNx is nothing more than a shortcut to reflect hit location. Hit in the head? LOTS of stun. Hit in the elbow? Not so much stun. The STUNx makes perfect sense.

BUT if you are still unhappy with it. Use the Standard Effect Rule of x2.5.

Re: What the heck is BODY anyways?

a low Body score means your body will fold quickly when presented with actual damage to it. a high Body score means you can keep going after the S.W.A.T. Team unloads a few rounds into you.

 

It can also be used to represent the fact that while a bullet is a bullet some people are a bit more resitent to them - they still get through all the time (low Defence) but they just can't seem to do that much tissue damage to the guy (high Body).

Women in westerns always had very low body. One grazing shot the the shoulder and ma is dead, while Brett the cow-hand can take 47 arrows and 6 gun shot blasts and still rustle up some cattle.

r

About six months ago we hopped into the wayback machine and started a new campaign in the late 19th century. The campaign is, well, I guess you would most closely classify it as Horror. Lots of zombies, werewolves, vampires and demons lurking in dark alleys. All players are in the Standard Hero range (75 + 75).

We are having a much better time than we ever did with Champions, except for combat. We played Fantasy Hero for a while and the extreme bloodiness of combat was not too big of a deal thanks to the friendly-neighbourhood-cleric-in-tow. But these characters don't have that benefit.

We have tried adding a magic charm or three, but that is rather hokey and contra-genre. We tried boosting combat ratings with Martial Arts. We tried changing the DEF rating for standard armour types. We tried changing the base damage of weapons. Nothing seems to be quite evening out. It either ends up nerfing combat where noone takes damage, or not making any difference.

I'm at my wits end. My players are having more fun than ever, and I really enjoy working the new genre. But the recuperative delay between games (game time. The trail of the evil demonologist goes cold while half the team is healing in hospital) is really putting a crimp in the story line.

How do you handle this?