UltraRob

Re: Zatch Bell

Well, the best way I can see to simulate this situation would be the Follower approach. The follower is the Mamono, not the human, the human is the character and the Mamono should be an NPC. All the Mamono's magic powers (probably a multipower which starts out with 1 slot if this were a campaign character, more slots can then be "unlocked" through experience by buying more slots with XPs, since they're only be 2-3 points each anyways) should be bought with the limitation OAF (Spellbook -1), Incantation (Incantations must be read by partner -1/2), and probably some limit on Range or something that requires the partner to be in line of sight to activate the powers. As noted, the Mamono should probably have a couple points of armour and maybe other minor abilties.

The human should just be bought as a normal human, he pays points for the follower, and then blows the rest on skills and whatnot for himself. If you want the human to be able to boost the Mamono's abilities through his "raw emotion", then have the human buy an AID to the Mamono's Multipower and require it to have an EGO roll (or something similar) to activate. (To reflect the character putting all his will into helping his friend.) Another odd alternative might be to require the AID to cost Long Term END, to reflect the character transferring his/her energy to their partner. This would also serve to keep the character from using it unless absolutely necessary, and keep the cost down.

Rob

Re: More Suikoden HERO stuff

Not exactly. I know Strike's Runeforger magic system, and while it works for "lesser" runes, Suikoden uses something a little different.

A Suikoden greater (aka "super/upgraded") rune is really a special magical crystal with 4 built-in spells, each of a successively more powerful level than the last, and not all of them necessarily being just more powerful versions of the same spell. For example, the Rune of the Rambling Boar would have 4 slots, each progressively more powerful than the last:

Cost Power

 

9 Rune of the Rambling Boar: Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); all slots Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), OIF (Rune; -1/2)

 

 

1u 1) Boar Rush: Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), OIF (Rune; -1/2) 1 END

 

 

1u 2) Boar Thunder I: Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6 (20 Active Points); Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF (Rune; -1/2) 2 END

 

 

1u 3) Hide of the Boar: Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), OIF (Rune; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Costs END every phase -1/2) 3 END

 

 

1u 4) Boar Thunder II: Hand-To-Hand Attack +8d6 (40 Active Points); Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF (Rune; -1/2) 4 END

You can see that although it's a 40pt Multipower, only one slot is actually 40 points, the slots being 10/20/30/40 active points each. The idea in the game is that your character would get access to new rune slots as they levelled, initially only getting the most basic level of their runes. Eventually as they level up, the runes level up too, and so they get access to the more advanced attacks.

In the sample one I just made, I simulated the "level" aspect by requiring a Hard (-1 per 5 active points) Rune Use skill roll. This would mean the roll would be at -2 for the Boar Rush, but Boar Thunder II would be at a -8 to cast, most difficult unless the character is highly skilled. (Thus keeping most starting characters from casting it.) It might be possible to let the characters us Penalty Skill Levels to offset the Rune Skill penalties, simulating a character getting better with a particular rune.

A full list of Suikoden Runes and more info on that system is here.

Ever since I saw it, I thought it was an interesting magic system. As I understand it, even Wizards in that setting are just Rune Users (who can be anyone) who can access more runes than a normal person. (who maxes out at 3 runes on their person)

Rob

Re: More Suikoden HERO stuff

Hey Enforcer, did you ever figure out a way to do those levelled Suikoden Runes in HERO? I thought they were a cool idea.

Rob

Re: Friendly faces in the Post-Apocalypse

I think the meat won't be a problem for the Vaulters...

http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/scitech/release.cfm?ArticleID=1098

Rob

Re: Magic system question

Well if he's so ignorant he has no clue that he can't steal it...he just heard it was possable, so what the hey! As for facing down a hero? No way! "Daughter, go bathe in the stream" "But father, I bathed last saturday, it's not time yet..." "Daughter, do as you are told, or I will bash you with this shovel..." Horst the Randy, victor of a hundred battles...yadda yadda..."Woa that is one hot peasant chick. I bet her father would feel honored to raise the son of a hero.." WHAM..... Gunthor the dirt farmer "Hmmm...shouldn't there be some goofy lightning and Queen music about now?"..

Although in theory, that can happen in any fantasy campaign, in fact it's suprising that doesn't happen more often. The number of magic items that could be stolen in that method is horrific.

Yeah I think going the hand wave is the right choice, especially when adapting something to Hero, fantasy even moreso...

Just seems a shame to need to do that hand-waving, but I guess the HERO magic system is best kept in the hands of the GM.

Rob

Re: Magic system question

I would treat spells like that as Scrolls without a Focus. Non Recoverable Charges instead of Independent. Acquisition of them would be treated like Equipment.

 

To make sure that only "Wizards" can use them, put a RSR: Magic Skill Of Some Sort lim on them; you can modify it down to no penalty to skill roll for a net of -0 if you want; the key point is to use them you have to have a Magic Skill and thus not everyone can acquire and use them.

Okay, that should work well enough.

Rob

Re: Magic system question

Not sure what the issue is here. If using INDEPENDENT on Powers to indicate that they can be permanently taken, you most definitely would not want to use them in a VPP -- if they were stolen/taken you would lose access to that much Real Cost worth of your VPP until you recovered the Power.

 

You also don't need the overhead of a VPP to do this.

 

 

Here's how I would do it:

Oh, I think there's some confusion here.

I agree, Shrike, that would be an excellent system for having stealable totemic powers of the kind MarkDoc is proposing. Amazing work, as usual.

But, what we were talking about with the VPP was for a system like that used in FFVIII, where magic spells are all Independant - Single Use (1-Charge) spells that are actually stolen from the spell collections of others before that person or creature can use them. Mages cannot actually generate spells, they can only "acquire" them, but even then, once they've cast that spell they've used it up and lost it. Where magic spells are generated from would depend on the campaign in question (in FFVIII they were from the magical critters of the world I believe) but the point is mages are collecting them like they might collect scrolls or potions in another campaign.

So, Pinecone's thoughts were that you could use a VPP to represent the character's capacity to "hold" spells, but I can see how that's an awful lot to ask considering that they're not able to keep said spells. Probably making a talent like you're talking about would be best, and treating the acquired spells like they were equipment. Maybe the cost of the talent would reflect the number of stolen spells the character was capable of storing at a time, with the option of "losing" a spell to open up space for new ones.

Rob

Re: Magic system question

Hey...he's an ignorant dirt farmer...so he fails to steal your power...your heads Still bashed in ..

But the point is, unless he knows how to steal your magic (or that it's even possible) he won't have anything to gain but pain for trying. As MarkDoc pointed out, you have to have a pretty good motivation for facing down a legendary warrior who cuts men in two with a flick of his wrist.

I guess you can do it as a weird VPP thang or just hand wave it..The Turakanian spell system gives me hives, but I just smile and pretend it all good...

Yes, I guess that would have to be the way to do it. You have a VPP, but you can only fill it with spells you stole from others, and the VPP size represents your limit in stolen spells. Mind you, this seems awfully expensive if each spell is single use and then it's gone until you aquire a new one.

Rob

Re: Magic system question

Yeah Iwas actually worried about the power stealing thang in the oposite direction...the heros might basicly try to hide their gifts and/or identitys to avoid having some dirt farmer bash thier head in with a shovel in hopes of gaining vast heroic power......"Thank you for saving us mighty hero! Who are you' date=' that we might praise you!" "Umm...I'd rather not say..."[/quote']

 

It would only be a problem if the Dirt Farmer(s) knew the ritual (or method) to steal the gifts, which I suspect they wouldn't. Likely only a handful of people might know how to do this, but I can see your point, showing off your gifts would be asking for trouble in this setup.

 

Actually, another option might be the system I heard they used in one of the Final Fantasy games, which was something to the effect that people stole single-use spells from magical creatures and other magic-users (who presumably got them from magical critters). A magic user's only real ability was to steal spells, everything else was banked-up spells they stole!

 

Hmm, I wonder how it would be possible to do this kind of system in HERO?

 

Rob

Re: Magic system question

 

The power-stealing idea is going to change play dynamics, though.....

 

cheers, Mark

Indeed, I'd be worried about players becoming focussed on stealing magic from others, it's kind've like introducing a massive magical scavenger hunt to the game. Depending on what kind of game you're trying to run, something like this could actually derail your campaign if your players decide to focus on it to the exclusion of other things.

In your place, I'd say GEAS are supplied by NPC gods (or whatever is applicable in your game) and maybe instead say they are supplied by said gods in trade for doing great deeds of bravery and valor (or something else which motivates them into action) instead.

Rob

http://www.miskatonic.org/dent.html

Rob

Re: Your Characters and You

I agree with KS, this is why Epic Fantasy usually bores me to tears.

Rob

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/07/MNGJSE4CAS1.DTL&type=science

(click on small pic for big layout)

Rob

Re: Magic system search

Personally, basing things off Active Points has bugged me since the 80s. For me, clearly Ritual Magic involving magic circles and long casting times should result in greater power than spells cast without those limitations for a mage of the same "rank". Otherwise, the only "reward" for having those limitations is that one spell is cheaper to know than the other which has a different feel than one spell resulting in greater effect than the other.

You could simulate this by using the AID power to boost known spells, requiring a ritual (which might take extra time) for each casting of AID until the spell reaches maximum efficiency. (Which is maybe double or so the normal campaign limits.) Thus a mage with a normally 60 active point cap could cast a 120 point spell if they knew the proper type of ritual, but are still a 60pt mage.

Rob

Re: Another take on fantasy campaigns

For your post apocalyptic campaign...

Humans: Descendants of average generally unmodified people.

Elves: Descentants of the rich elite who had their children genetically upgraded to be healthier, smarter, live longer, see better in the dark, etc. Maybe they had pointed ears as a "fad" or as a way of marking themselves as different (and superior) to regular humans.

Dwarves: Decendants of genetically engineered mining clones, you see in the future most of the easy to get minerals were mined out, so they had to work much harder to mine, this being done by clones of course, not "real" humans.

Great miners and engineers with a natural location sense and great dark vision, also pretty tough little guys.

ORCs [Offensive Response Clones]: Descendants of the infantry clones of the future, strong, tough, fast and very aggressive, but not very smart. (After all, they're really just walking armour for tanks...) They look ugly because they were made to scare the bejeezus out of the enemy population.

Goblins: Descendants of construction worker clones made to be small, agile, nimble and good with tools, but not very bright because they were meant to be followers. (Although they logically would have good memories since they'd need to remember blueprints.) Could actually be a bit of a gadgeteer race.

Trolls: Descendants of heavy labour/ heavy construction clones, big, tough, dumb and heal really fast. Could be multiple variants, like the version for hot climates and the version for cold weather work. (Hairy and bigfoot-like.)

Of course, there is the question of why these clones were able to reproduce, since logically they would have been sterile to prevent them from uncontrolled reproduction. Unless of course there are still clone factories somewhere churning them out...

Rob

Re: Armor Spell Failure

The efficiency of using Magic for defense depends entirely on the nature of the Magic System in question.

 

But that isn't the point; the point is the HERO System is a game of OPTIONS and RELATIVE ABILITY. By assessing flat, arbitrary penalties or restrictions you work against both ideas.

Actually, Shrike, I see it another way. The HERO system is meant to be a generic system which the GM then customizes to go with the nature of his or her campaign. As HERO GM's we're constantly tweaking the system and making arbitrary changes to make it fit better with our conceptualized campaign. For example, a Wheel of Time style campaign, a WuXia style campaign and a Conan campaign should all feel radically different, and this isn't just accomplished with point totals, but with GMs mucking around and making arbitrary (but logically justifiable) limits. The options inherent in the HERO system are actually there to be used as the GM wills or limited, not necessarily always used full-tilt.

Rob

Re: Armor Spell Failure

If you're feeling mean, you can make it a "side effects" roll in instead, say the energy causes a heat flash inside the armour if they fail their spell roll while wearing it. They're channeling energy and it superheats the air in between the skin and armour because the armour can't breath properly. Say, 1D6 per 1Def normal damage.

See how much armour they wear!

Rob

Re: New Campaign

Indeed. Many Thanks!

Rob

Re: New Campaign

Now that I've had more of a chance to look around the site I have a question and a comment:

The Question is, as things are written for your magic guidelines does this mean if I have a Mana Pool with 50 END, I also have to buy 50 REC to go with it? (At a -3 lim, of course.)

The comment is that I too admire your character sheets (and would love a Hero Designer template for them if you had it lying around), and the reason is because you did the one thing I haven't seen done on a character sheet before, you put the character story and disadvanages first. Someone once said a character's flaws are what really determine who they are and what makes them different, and your choice of placing the disadvantages in the upper left like that really works into this. Color me impressed!

Rob

Re: Villains of the Cult

As you can see in the edited version, the total rD are 5/5.

Thanks for the tip about the test play.

Yep, I can see that now. He should work well. Good luck!

Rob

Re: Villains of the Cult

Ok, I needed that.

Anyway, I already cut down his clay skin to 5/5 instead of 10/10. Is that enough?

So, is that 5/5 rPD/rED total then? If so, it should be about right. Don't go over 8rPD/rED with Automatons in a Fantasy Hero campaign unless it's a high powered one. FH is designed with the idea that characters are mostly doing STUN to their opponents, and are more like to render them unconscious than kill them. (It's a trait left over from HERO's Champions days.) If you take that away, such as with Automatons, you make a character who is really hard to take down if they have decent defenses. MarkDoc's comments are right on the money.

You might consider a little solo playtesting with your Villians against the NPC Heros in the back of the FH book (or some other equivalent team of NPCs) before you let them loose on your players. Watching how they function and tweaking them before they see real action. If you're pressed for time, try using Herosphere or the Hero Combat Simulator programs to do this.

Rob

Re: Villains of the Cult

Can I ask what points the players are built on? Is this a superheroic-level Fantasy game? Because that villian would smack around most of my old superhero groups as he is now. Being an automaton who takes no stun and yet has fairly high defenses he's gonna be damn hard to take down. If you make him resistant to magic too...damn...How are the players supposed to defeat him? They can't knock him out, only kill him, and he'll just keep coming like a little terminator. (That AID will pretty much keep people from being able to kill him too, he can just AID his body back up when he feels like it.)

Rob

Re: New Campaign

Your "Social Limitation:Adventurer" is right on the money, I'm shocked that it isn't in Fantasy HERO or that most people (including me) don't use it already. (Although a claim could be made that it's already there, just worth 0 points in most games...)

Rob

P.S. Nice Maps

Re: New Cmpaign : Magic Power Help?

Indeed, his replies to 6,7 and 8 have just given me great insight into making the Fantasy Hero system really magical. (If you'll pardon the pun.) I didn't start this thread, but thanks Shrike for the pointers!

Rob

Re: RIP: James Doohan

Given he had Alzheimer's disease, it was probably a good time to go.

Rest in Peace.

Rob