UltraRob

Re: Master and Commander, Star Hero style.

Well' date=' you have twenty Aubrey and Maturin books to work through, after which you should have all the inspiration you'll ever need. Ignore the recently published fragment of his final book, though, because it's only the barest sketch of a plan.[/quote']

 

Well, I tend to rotate books, read one book by one author and then move onto another and eventually will cycle back to the first author. My current job (which involves travelling to several companies a day by public transit) allows me a lot of reading time. Actuallly, I read Midshipman Hornblower before I read Master and Commander, and I have to say I actually like the Hornblower stories better. Although the Hornblower stuff is the grand heroic stuff of officers, while the O'BRian stuff is the real meat and bones of a sailor's life in that age. (Complete with huge amounts of sometimes baffling slang.)

 

To me the best aspects of the novels (of which Master and Commander and Post Captain are probably the finest) is the social side and the developing relationship between the characters. Aubrey is awkward and inept on dry land, remarkably credulous, yet unsurpassed in his own water-borne kingdom; Maturin an accomplished spy, physician, linguist and naturalist who never seems to notice the state of his appearance and hates nothing so much as an informer. The plots and battles are almost an aside, and this is how I like RPGs to develop also, with the characters taking the centre stage and making it their own.

 

I'll make a point of reading Post Captain as my next O'Brian book. I might not read much more than that, he's good but his writing style is a little annoying.

 

You're right, there is much there to adapt for a sci-fi game, especially a "lower end" one where the galaxy has not been fully explored and tamed and imperial expansion fires political tensions. Maturin would doubtless have been in raptures over the flora and fauna of an alien world.

 

I was thinking it would also work well for a Traveller style setting, where space has been long established but communication is limited, travel times are longish and interstellar trade is booming. Set it out on the Fringes, and you have a Traveller HERO game set and made.

 

Rob

Re: Master and Commander, Star Hero style.

Have you read any of David Weber's "Honor Harrington" novels? It's a science fiction story set in and around a naval force that operates on similar rules. (Not unexpected as the author very much based his premise on some well known Napoleonic-era naval fiction.)

Weber is next on my list after I finish O'Brian. :-)

Rob

Re: Master and Commander, Star Hero style.

Wow! Great link! Thanks!

That's amazing stuff, so the British were outclassed in terms of numbers, out-teched, and motivated by a system that actually discouraged them fighting, and yet they still managed to rule the sea in their time. Oddly enough, I see parallels between this and current Massively Multiplayer Online gaming, and just how effective the people in those games are when profit is involved.

Money really is the greatest motivator known to mankind.

Rob

I'm reading the book Master and Commander by Patrick O'Brian (the one the movie is partially based on, very partially) and generally have found it to be a pretty good book with amazing (and incredibly anal) levels of detail about how those ships during late 17th century worked, lived and fought. One of the most interesting aspects is that the main ship in the book The Sophie, while nominally under the auspices of the British Royal Navy is actually a captured ship crewed by sailors given minimal pay and stores. The ship is expected to go out and get themselves "prizes" (enemy cargo ships) and then drag those back to port and be paid for them as their real way of earning money. They're half navy/half pirates but not privateers, and the captain's only real hope of promotion is showing how many prizes he can snag. I had no idea things were so mercenary back then, but I can't help but think how amazingly it would translate into a nice Star Hero campaign. (With the ship alternating being fox and hound, since you never know who you'll run into...)

Rob

So, as I read through Wenchell Cheung's Atomic Rockets Page something occurred to me, the future could be an extremely dangerous place. (Yes, I know, thanks for catching up...)

I mean, all anyone needs to do is pack a stardrive on a asteroid and let rip, and there goes your planet. (To say nothing of portable massdrivers...) This is something that almost anyone could theoretically do, and the first time it happens if there's an associated greater galactic society they're probably going to have quite the freak-out. (Thus the 9-11 reference in the title.) You want to see a peaceful Federation turn militant (or many anti-militant) overnight, all you need to do is show how easy it is to take out a planet if that's your goal. (None of this conquest stuff!)

When you realize that any old asteroid miner can kill off an entire world if he's feeling ornery it gives you a new perspective on things. Especially if there's not much you can do about it (this is highly based on a setting's stardrive of choice and it's associated limitations), you wonder how people would live with this threat. Would they be incredibly pro-active about eliminating threats? (Which has the hazzard of potentially just creating more threats!) Or, would civilizations be incredibly nice to each other, held in check by the MAD principal? Of course, it's not even MAD if most civilizations are single worlds because often your targets are all dead and any who remain have no idea who to retaliate against!

Equally nasty is the pirate approach, especially if there are a lot of habitable worlds out there with limited population, wherein a pirate/warlord just needs to show up in orbit and inform the locals who's in charge now. Any resistance, they're dead, maybe not immediately, but before the pirates leave. After all, the pirates can just move on to the next "smarter" world. Wow, talk about being turned into a bunch of Japanese Rice Farmers, and even 7 Samuroids are going to be hard pressed to get them out of that one!

Rob

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

Rep for you Nyrath!

That side should be required reading for a Star Hero campaign builder!

Rob

Re: My Magic Item System...

I looked....

Oh god! My eyes! My eyes! I'm blind!

Seriously though, that's one impressive list! I mean...damn! Good work!

Rob

Re: Western / Steampunk Hero Idea Bouncing: "Bone Falls"

I'd probably go with actual Chinese with martial arts skills and guns which weren't quite as good as the Spanish. If there were Chinese colonies in America' date=' the Native American population would have dwindled from exposure to all those nasty Old World diseases. Of course, in a fictional world, the Native Americans could be more resistant. And the Chinese would likely be less enthused than Europeans with colonization anyway.[/quote']

 

Which is where you get the Native Americans being used as pawns in a kind of "cold war" between the two coastal powers. Or, as an alternative, they could be the ones using the Euros and Chinese! I could see the Chinese backing the Natives as a way to deal with the Euros, but then again they could be cautious enough to not want to risk arming the natives when the natives could turn those arms against them.

 

Hmm, as you point out, the Spanish would be players in this game too...A 4th side (5th if you count the French up in Canada)...This fictional North America is getting pretty crowded!

 

Rob

Re: Western / Steampunk Hero Idea Bouncing: "Bone Falls"

I've considered doing this in my own game world...a colonial fantasy type thing. Wuxia is way cooler than thousands of tiny tribes of hunter-gatherers barely getting by' date=' which is mostly who lived in the real California before the Spanish showed up.[/quote']

 

I dunno, even if you wanted the tribes, you could say that the Chinese Traders did come and the natives learned much from them. Suddenly you get different tribes using their version of "War Arts" to kick butt barehanded and do all sorts of funky things. Or, they acquired Gunpower and were actually expert gunsmiths before the Euros showed up, which would be quite the shock for the Euros! This time the Indians have the bigger guns!

 

Rob

Re: Western / Steampunk Hero Idea Bouncing: "Bone Falls"

Are you talking about a real historical claim? As in the guy who wrote 1421 ? If so, I wouldn't take his methods too seriously. Zheng He's Treasure Fleet is reasonably well documented as travelling through the Idies and the Indian Ocean all the way to Africa and Arabia but NOT the Americas and that seems telling to me.

 

Could the Treasure Fleet have made the journey? Yes. But, historically, that's not enough. And the Asian chicken and much of the other stuff the guy brought up is better explained as limited contact with Polynesia.

 

If you're not taking this as a historical truth but as a neat fictional premise - Cool!

Ahh, 1421! I always remember it as 1472 for some reason.

I agree with you, I tend to treat the whole idea as a "what if" premise rather than taking it seriously. I had actually heard references to the idea from Chinese friends prior to that book, but have never seen proof either way. Could they have done it? Sure. Did they? Who knows! But, I like to use it as springboard to base the above alternate history idea on, a North America where East really did meet West! How cool is that?

Rob

Re: Western / Steampunk Hero Idea Bouncing: "Bone Falls"

If you want the West to be REALLY different, then why not assume that the Chinese trade fleet that found America in 1472 resulted in colonization instead of the ships being destroyed. You end up with an East ruled by Europeans, a West ruled by Chinese (allowing Martial Arts, WuXia and other fancy stuff) and in the middle are the badlands with the Indians stuck between the two powers.

You say you don't know much about Chinese culture? Not a problem, the colonial Chinese would have gotten cut off from the mainland during the 1600's when the dynasties changed. At that point they would have become an independant nation of American Chinese, or "nations" if the different colonies fractured over time. These could have evolved in many different ways and pretty much be however you like them to be.

Rob

Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training

does lifting ones kilt then count as a martial flash attack? or a marital flash attack?

Well now, I guess that depends on how big your sporran is, doesn't it lad?

Rob

Re: Fantasy ala Bonaparte

With a fantasy world, you could also work in angles with fantasy races. Perhaps all the nobles are Elven, who've been able to accumulate wealth and power due to their long lifespans, and are literally the Old Regime? The Revolution swept mere humans into power and led many elves to the chopping block. The Elven kings and aristocrats in other lands are obviously concerned about such a turn of events, and thus the wars begin. One of the human generals rises to prominence and becomes your "Napoleon".

 

Part of the reason this general/Emporer keeps pushing and exceeding his grasp is that he is acutely aware of his limited lifespan compared to the Elves - he wants to do as much as possible while he can. While the Elven "art of war" can involve long, drawn out seiges spanning several human generations, this human reintroduces rapid, decisive battles of mass and maneuver.

 

(Many human languages exist, but Elven is of course the language of diplomacy and learning.)

As someone who has been giving thought to an Elven-ruled setting for some time, I have to say I am impressed with this campaign idea. I think the idea of rebel humans fighting against an Elven empire has a lot of story promise no matter how you slice it up. Who says Elves have to be benevolent in their age and wisdom? I like the idea of them being stagnant and corrupt even better!

Rob

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/magazine/styles/westernma.htm

I like the part about the need for masters to prove their worth against against three half-drunken men!

Rob

Re: The Non-Wandering Adventurer

I ran a city campaign last year, and it rocked. The players did travel out on several times into the wilderness, but most of the emphasis was on the events and people of the campaign city. Actually an interesting thing that happened because they were in a city was that things they did actually had ramifications that they felt personally. They built up alliegances and enemies on their own as a natural consequence of who they sided with in things and how they acted. Yes, these things happen in a normal "regional" campaign where the PCs travel about, but when it's happening in a more closed environment I found they happened much faster and more intensely.

In fact, that was the only problem with a "geographically limited" campaign, pretty much everything the players do can come back to haunt them. I'll give you an example...

As part of a raid on a local brothel to rescue a character being held captive the PCs stumbled across where the brothel keepers kept the 40 or so village girls they kidnapped to work for them locked up. Naturally being heroic PCs, they freed them and helped them escape with them, then took the village girls out into the countryside and away from the city, gave them a little money to use to get home and sent them on their way.

Now, the problem with this is that the girls were being sent back to the places where they were kidnapped from and logically the "scouts" for the organized crime group that owned the brothel were pretty much guaranteed to recapture some of them soon or later, or at least find them. (1 or 2 could be expected to keep their mouths shut, but 40 of them? That would be like a train full of people keeping Spiderman's secret identity!) At that time, the bad guys would have found out who freed them and our players would have sudddenly had a huge crime organization out to get them. It's not like they didn't have enemies trying to kill them already, but the problem is they would have made a very major enemy in a closed environment. Wandering PCs can do thise sort of thing and ride away with some impunity, but PCs who have to live next to the guys they just screwed over are going to have to pay the piper sooner or later.

In this case, I didn't want to punish the PCs for their heroic actions, so I just ignored it and assumed the bad guys never found out the PCs did it. It was just another campaign complication I didn't want to deal with in an already socially complex game.

Rob

Re: Things I'd like to see more of in fantasy gaming

Hey llewin, welcome aboard!

This is one of the most thoughtfull message boards I have ever seen, and it's populated by an honestly good group of people. Don't be afraid to ask questions, but before you do try to do a "search" on the topic first. People here have covered more topics than you'd believe, and a lot of things keep coming up again and again. And, the amount of useful materials you'll find here is staggering too.

Enjoy!

Rob

Re: Encounter: The "friendly" ogres

Heh. Yes, good story. Thanks for sharing, slim.

Rob

Re: Things I'd like to see more of in fantasy gaming

Okay, since I'm helping to get this off topic, let me throw one in...

Why must players always fight to the death in situations where their characters would have run, surrendered or tried something else long ago?

I know they have a "hit point" counter, but have you ever noticed that players seem to often ignore the most basic of human instincts...self preservation? I mean, I understand they are foolhardy and overconfident heros, but even the wise elven mage always seems willing to fight to the last hit point rather than even consider the simple word...retreat.

This has always irked me, no concept of "live to fight another day", it's always "fight or fall", even in the most trival battles which don't seem to be going their way.

Rob

Re: Things I'd like to see more of in fantasy gaming

Yes he oredered the conjuring of the demon in front of the full court, the conjuring was done in the eyes of the court and at least one member of the court was killed by the demon.

Also he declared himself a god, which is heresy.

He's sounding more like some Demon-lord than a standard Emperor. Doesn't sound like this guy is long for the throne.

Which brings another question, if the next guy was more legitimate and accepted by the gods, would your character bow to him?

2 Wrong Question, .

No, a fair direct question. Unless all of your adventures are occuring nestled safe in Amazonian lands, you will be a target sooner or later were the Emperor personally out to get you. And, I have a hard time beliving you stay safely nestled in your lands 24/7.

The fault wasn`t and isn`t the GM, these is official Background.

But, the way you're presenting it it comes across like your heros hold all the cards and there's no way anything bad could happen to you. I suspect this isn't how it is in actual play, and we're getting a skewed view here.

@Arcady

 

If you kill the Regent, at least half the nobility would applaud you.

Cool, if I were your party I'd been workin hard to make sure that someone does the job, sounds like plenty of people would help...

Rob

Re: Things I'd like to see more of in fantasy gaming

Sigh. Yes, this is turning into a "Wolverine can kick anyone's ass" thread.

Sword-Dancer, I have two questions...

1) Could your high priestess of priestessness actually prove the Emperor "consorted with Satan" to said council of gods? Also, if you are on trial, why would anything be brought up against the Emperor?

God of Tacos: We're his to discuss the charges against Priestess X.

Priestess X: "Emperor Y, Consorted with Satan!"

God of Doritos: That's nice dear, would the Emperor please state his case?

Priestess X: "Emperor Y consorted with Satan!"

God of Chocolate: Priestess X, if you continue with your outbursts you will have your ability to speak removed. The Emperor will now speak.

Priestess X: "Emperor Y consort...urk!"

God of Tacos: Thank you God of Doritos. Emperor Y, proceed.

Emperor Y: "Thank you great lords and ladies, I come to you today to speak of a grave matter of insolence which definies comprehension..."

If you don't believe me, try bringing up the fact the guy suing you for hitting his dog with your car is a known drug dealer and see how the court reacts?

They don't care, he's not on trial, YOU are.

2) Did your priestess buy...immunity to poison?

To this day, I am humbled that I lost one of my favorite characters to a major villian I mouthed off to, so she simply had my food at a local restaurant poisoned. (And yes, the GM gave me hints, it wasn't an out of the blue malice thing...) Of course there was a local doctor ready to help me, it just so happened she worked for the villian...

The simpliest ways are usually the most effective and deadly.

(And, can lead to great adventures looking for cures! Sure your priestess has cure poisons, but there's always that poison bought with "difficult to dispel" made from the dark heart of an Orge Lich...Sure it costs money, but then, who else could afford it more than the Emperor?)

I have to say, you must have your GM seriously whipped. I run games where everything is part of a living environment, and while I have characters retire as lords and ladies all the time, everything is part of an ecosystem and the PCs know it. In an ecosystem, nobody stays on top of the food chain for very long if they can't hold their place with strength or guile. If you could hold your own against what the Emperor sent after you, fine and dandy, but as the man once said..."she's gotta sleep sometime"...

Unless you plan to raise an army to fight the emperor, you will bow to the position, if not the person.

Rob

Re: Trebuchet Challenge

Very cool...there goes a couple hours...thanks Bob!

Rob

Re: Flavour in Combat over mechanics

I like it when people describe their combat maneuvers in detail. It sounds better than "I punch him." Of course' date=' people don't always think in terms of "I do a spin kick to the side of my opponent's head," especially if they're not martial artists in real life. Keep in mind martial artists simply describe their attacks as punch/kick because they're not very descriptive by nature. I just try to encourge them and set an example for them.[/quote']

 

Yeah, most of the "cool move names" you read about when it comes to martial arts are actually names handed down from the founders of the various arts. They named those moves so that when training the students they could specify what type of punch, or even specific movements they wanted the students to do. IIRC, Shaolin Kung-Fu had like 72 different "moves", but they're all just variations of the basics with slightly different hand/foot/body positions.

An amusing thing I have noticed as a reader of actual Chinese WuXia fiction is that the authors of such books are actually very un-descriptive of combat! When two characters face off, the opening moves will be described, then we'll get a line like "they exchanged 500 tricks (moves), neither able to get the advantage" and that will be followed by descriptive combat of them unleashing their really special moves which will lead to the end of the fight. Since fights really are a visual thing, the authors are full well aware that explaining the whole fight would be boring, so they condense it down as best they can and focus on the elements surrounding the fight rather than the fights themselves. WuXia novels are amazing for many things, but learning descriptive fighting styles is not one of them.

 

Rob

Re: Flavour in Combat over mechanics

Giving out bonuses for use of descriptive license in combat is fine' date=' but [i']be careful[/i]. Roleplayers are naturally an imaginative lot, and when they find out something is beneficial to them they will take it to its logical (and sometimes illogical) extreme.

It depends on the group. I designed that little rubrick off the top of my head to be used with a group that is just not putting any effort into it or is pretty mediocre at it. (Like my group tends to be, not bad, just not very imaginative.) If you have a group likes yours that is majorly into it, then the GM would be better just winging it and giving limited bonuses when needed. The other reason I designed this rubrick was that I think it's best to make things very clear how much description will be worth what bonus. As a teacher I know the benefits of being able to look at a chart when an arguement comes up and say "here, this is my criteria". It can stop a raging mother at 20 paces, cold.

I am actually a person who is lukewarm on the whole combat bonus idea, mostly because the GM is then obligated to be better than the PCs at it if they want their villians to win. (Especially in those systems where to have any decent bonus a character MUST be descriptive.) It's a problem I ran into once when I ran a campaign based around magical dueling where the characters were wandering a pokemon-ish version of ancient China learning new magic symbols for a free-flow magic system that was essentially a stripped down homebrew CCG. My players were better at the CCG thing than I was, so once they started to develop some real combos the game started to fall appart because I found I was UNABLE to provide them with real challenges due to my own skill level, as opposed to the levels of my villians. (Ironically enough the group still wishes I'd continue the game since they loved it to pieces...)

After that game, I swore I would never run a system where my own skill was the major determinant of whether the opponents would be tough or not.

That said, I see nothing wrong with rewarding players bonuses for cool moves and creativity like you guys displayed, just basing it around such an open based system is too much. One other option for using this Rubrick style system I did think of was to reward the players "cool move points" instead of combat bonuses which they could later cash in for XPs at some predetermined ratio. Anything to reward players and encourage combat descriptiveness.

Rob

Re: Medieval taverns

Indeed. Most cool! Thanks!

Rob

Re: Flavour in Combat over mechanics

To break things down a little more...

Simple Combat Bonus Rubrick

Level of Description: 1

Player uses Mechanical Attack Names or very Simple Description.

Examples:

“I punch him.â€

“I use my martial strike.â€

“I fire my energy blast.â€

Possible Bonuses: 0 OCV/0 DCV/0 DC

Level of Description: 2

Player makes moderate effort to use descriptive combat and/or uses descriptive attack names.

Examples:

“I use my Three Dogs Biting attack on him!â€

“I drop to the ground and do a sweep attack.â€

“I bring my arms together, smile, and fire my god-bolts.â€

Possible Bonuses: +1 OCV/ +1 DCV / +1 DC (whatever is most appropriate)

Level of Description: 3

Player makes serious effort to use descriptive combat, and makes regular use of descriptive terms instead of mechanical terms. Player makes use of environmental elements as part of combat.

Examples:

“I leap up into the air, using my Three Dogs Biting attack to knock him back into the firepit so I can watch him scream.â€

“I jump over the table, do a double roll on the ground and bring my leg around to sweep him.â€

“I throw an apple up in the air to distract him, then dive to the side letting lose with my god-bolts.â€

Possible Bonuses: +2 OCV / +2 DCV / +2 DC (whatever is most appropriate)

Level of Description: 4

Player uses descriptive combat terms and descriptive terms for powers, player uses environmental elements in combat and also shows extreme cleverness or creativity in their combat moves.

Examples:

“Saying “you look a little under-doneâ€, I leap up into the air and use my Three Dogs Biting attack to hit him six times a second into the chest, knocking him back into the firepit and listen to him scream with satisfaction.â€

“I jump over the table, making sure not to disturb anything else so I don’t make the Duke mad, and then do a double roll on the ground and bring my leg to do a sweep on the guy while getting ready to lunge forward for an elbow strike to the chest for my next move.â€

“I snatch an apple from the table and throw it at his head since I know he’ll instinctively focus on it while I dive to the side and shoot him in the upper torso with my god-bolts while yelling “let’s see how you like this one boy scout!â€â€

Bonuses: +3 OCV/ +3 DCV / +3 DC (whatever is most appropriate)

Rob