Christopher

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

When you can define Megascaled Knockback in a way that does not remove or kills everyone you hit' date=' than it might be applicable.[/quote']

@Hugh. So, what is it you try to convince me of, that I haven't already agreed?

Re: Tenure as a perk

We're always so down on mental powers. What if he had' date=' say, [i']See it my way[/i]3d6 Mind Control (SFX: highly persuasive), Cumulative (+1/2), 16x maximum (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Area Effect - radius (+1). He argues very convincingly. He can reach a total of 288 points of effect - enough that you will need a breakout roll of 3. With a 2 SPD, he can get an average of over 100 points of effect in a one minute presentation, on a room full of people. That gets up to 15 EGO to +30 level with a -11 to the breakout roll.

I don't know, that might be a little bit cheesy. And I think the comparsion with the sportstar isn't very good. Could he (mc-guy) do the same thing with normal persuasion and complementary skills, that aren't beyond the human maxima at the same cost?

Also you forgot one point: They notice they are mentally attacked, in the first round he doesn't archieves a result.

When talking about different interpretations, would it be okay to archieve the same thing with mind-bending chemicals in the food for the presentation?

The effect of Mind Controll is clearly stated as "taking over the mind of someone and controll their actions". If that is not what you want to do, then Mind Controll is the wrong power.

And of course the entire "path to evil thing" was from my point of view, wich is admittedly relatively black and white (with a steep, grey slope).

Re: Using a D20

And there is the optional "extraordinary skill" rule: When you hit 18- or better, you can make normaly impossible things at -10 (like opening a lock with a kick, breakfall to take no damage from a max velocity fall ...).

Re: Limitations on Combat Skill Levels - same as the attack itself?

2) Precision Beam - RKA 3d6' date=' +6 OCV[/quote']

Are those 2-pt CSL's or higher?

Re: Damage Negation: how much?

Just a cautionary tale.

Thanks. I had that in Mind. Not the total of the defenses is in the MP, but enough that it makes the DN a "stand and take" power against autofire.

About cheese and forgetting: It's as dangerous as any elemental controll/EP Multipower. I only put in things that are fight relevant. And instead of half a dozen blasts, I have one 30-35 AP HTH-"Attack Power" (a STR Bonus).

It wil go down to the following configurations:

Full normal+resistant defenses, and either fulls STR or full speed (main battle mode)

DR and a little bit of normal+resistant defenses, nothing else.

Maybe some other usefull/weird battle powers I can think of and that don't mix with DN, but defenses.

Honsetly: I mostly did this so my charakter could be fired upon by a dozen henchmen and say "that tickled"/"was that all?" afterwards (must be a nice bonus to any presence attack). The overall number should be GM aproveable (he allowed 20/20 resistant + 4/4 DN outside of a Multipower).

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

Most people I know who play Hero measure damage in points of BOD and STUN' date=' so for them, no.[/quote']

Wait, this got me to something. I really had to look this up, since it's so deep in wording of the rules:

You don't measure knockback in Meters. You measure it in BODY. Double Knockback doubles the BODY for the porpuse of determining knockback. It's only that the not negated Knockback Body translates into travelled meters.

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

I actually had a conversation with a friend of mine concerning Megascaled damage as a way of differentiating human level damage from vehicle-level damage and up from there to monstrous battleships. [...]We just weren't sure how to scale damage from a higher-megascaled vehicle down to lower megascaled targets.

Actually I know that the old Star Wars D6 System dealt with exaclty this. The scales there were: Human, Speeder (Car, Aircraft), AT (Tanks), Spacefighter, Battleship, Deathstar (yes, they really had that category in the Basic Rulebook).

The idea was for example, that a speeder and a human had a 3:6 scale. When human attacks speeder, speeders dodge dice were "capped" at 3. As were the humans damage dice agianst the speeder (who could of course us his full dice).

On the other hand, the speeder-scale attack had it's hit dice capped at 3, but the humans resistance dice were capped 3 either (So you are harder to hit, but easier to damage or vice versa).

Of course, sometimes you could use different scale weapons: Anti Vehicle weapons, Anti-Fighter Lasercannons for Battleships. And there were area-damage effects.

For here the main difficulty would be, how to apply scale to defenses and DCV(or OCV).

Re: Tenure as a perk

Depending on the reasonableness of his choices' date=' I might leave out the "anti" there.[/quote']

He's mind controlling others without any mayor threat to any live (by outside force). He is a anti hero at best, if he isn't a villian already (or on his way to become one).

Re: Government and the superhuman

Depending on how you want the government to view superhumans in your campaign' date=' this new agency could either be in the Department of Justice (as a counterpart to the FBI) or in Homeland Security (implying that the government sees superhumans as a major threat).[/quote']

Or more like the mutant registration act and concentration camps for mutants, protected by sentinels.

Re: Damage Negation: how much?

Actually' date=' my thoughts on Damage Negation are that it is a cheaper way to simulate low-level damage immunity; 30 to 45 Active Points would make someone pretty much immune to most guns, for instance. As it negates the dice entirely, it reduces both BODY and STUN significantly; taking off 2d6 from a 4d6k attack makes it cheaper than 50% Resistant Damage Reduction at that power level; once you get above 10 DC's or so in average attack strength, it starts to be less cost efficient.[/quote']

I totally agree with that. Is it especially usefull against Autofire (wich must gun's tend to be). Also, it should totally go out of the normal defenses. And the best measure might be the ap.

 

Personally I am thinking about a brick with maxed defenses (7 normal, 18 Resistant) and 6/6 DR (60 AP) in the same 80-Point Multipower, together with atack powers(in this chase >50% of the STR) and movement powers. Maybe add lockout for both defenses. That way it should cancel out any side effects (can be either bulletproof or resistant to normal attacks and able to fight).

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

Neither "range" nor "area" are powers either. They are aspects of powers which can be megascaled. Knockback can reasonably be interpreted as an aspect of a power which moves an opponent.

Right, but the text explicitly says that AOE or "Powers that work on Range" could be megascaled. Like it explicitly counts Movement Powers.

Also, don't forget this important sentence:

"It [Megascale] is intended to allow characters to create interesting, useful, and flavorful abilities (often non-combat ones), not to make it easy to build planet-destroying weapons for just a few points or to allow a character to travel anywhere he wants instantly."

When you can define Megascaled Knockback in a way that does not remove or kills everyone you hit, than it might be applicable.

If you want to just one-hit your enemys or take them out of the fight for a long time, then it is not.

When it gets more powerfull in taking out/disabling your enemys than a 80 AP Blast, a 80 AP Entangle, or "Desolidification, Useable on others" - than imho it would simply be powergaming.

[Edit: On your logic, what about damage? Could it be megascaled?]

Re: American Dream character, getting out from dust

@Christopher : [...]I'd like to see how you'd exactly numberize the Lips of rapture effect with it' date=' if you don't mind.[/quote']

I don't know the enchantress and most importantly, I don't know what you want to be able to do with that pair of lips. I don't really know the scale of Skills from 5e or what seduction allowed for ingame effects, but having a 24- sounds like you want to do something that is on the edge of mind-controll, or even beyond that. When trying to seduce a henchman in combat (so you get a conscious, captured and convinced foe to complement all the conscious, unwilling ones), I would give something around -13 to the roll. Even then it is still only a 11-.

Also, the sugested skill limit for very competent lies at 17- top (I think this limit is also there to tell you, when skills are out of the question for a game effect).

Re: Limitations on Combat Skill Levels - same as the attack itself?

I could swear I've seen - in official books - weapon builds where the additional CSLs for accuracy and/or PSLs for range had the OAF limitation.

In 6E, it's in the rules for the CSL's. But afaik that was a sight that could be switched between weapons and CLS 3 (even if it just was for OCV Bonus to offset range).

Re: American Dream character, getting out from dust

Very interesting build and even a double-legacy hero.

You may want to make the shield resistant and maybe this second +1/4 thing for defenses too (don't remember what it was called, I think "Impermeable").

The "sexy" part is pretty easy covered with Striking Apereance and you can even go to the "supherhuman" area for it.

Have you ever though about making the kiss a limited mind controll? I had written some of my thoughs about it here.

Won't rep you, because now some of the ideas for my female brick will look like a cheap copy of American Dream. But I gues that is what I get from beeing so slow with creating her

Re: Armor from x-men type of brick.

As was pointed out' date=' I took that limitation so it CAN be exploited and fully expect to loose it at least a couple of times through the campaign. But then again, that is why I have team mates.[/quote']

That's true hero spirit. I do the same for my heros. After all, sometimes the abilites of hero might be in the way of a good story...

 

Now' date=' I never thought of that... That is an interesting idea.[/quote']

In the limitation text they even say: Only take it, when you can think of a way to affect them all at once. Like disrupting the circuits in a multi setting energy gun (Multipower), or hitting a flame power user with a fire Extinguisher (well, the drain Fire aspect of it at least).

For her, it would be anything that disrupts her "X-Gene improved brain part".

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

However' date=' in any particular game, the GM may decide he doesn't care. He may well be running a villain game, in which case excessive body counts and rampant destruction are not only expected, but encouraged.[/quote']

That falls under "if you find a way to use it, so that the world doesn't want to kill you".

 

The Knockback issue is' date=' to me, more significant than the "noncombat move through" issue. Let's say my noncombat movement is 1,000 meters so I add 166 2/3d6 with a Move Through. Even if I do knockback, I take half the damage myself. An 84d6 attack (half of 168d6) is going to kill most characters anyway.[/quote']

 

Right' date=' but going back to the optional velocity factor rules, one of the reasons it exists is because, beyond about 50 or 60" of movement, the velocity-based damage rules are broken. Hitting something at Mach 1 should not do as much damage as a nuclear bomb blast wave.[/quote']

It is highly disencouraged for any gm to allow any mitigating factos (and technically, you can't even aply any bonusses. They all come before the drop to 0%). Also, I would just limit the max damage to PD+Remaining Postive Body + Maximum Negative Body, like with anything you throw, hit your enemy with or run into (but accounting for hero's higher "breaking" point). After that, all you can do with more speed is smear your remains over a greater area....

And Nuclear Blast Strengt Force on a 2x0.5 Meter area is not that unreseonable (if you have the defenses + body to archieve it). After all, what does a bullet if not putting a lot of force on a very small area?

 

Pretty sure there was a ruling about Megascale movement's additions to damage being based on inches (now meters)' date=' unadjusted for Megascale, but bumping ordinary noncombat speeds is pretty easy too. [/quote']

At least the rules for Move Through/Move By say you can't use them with Megascale movement. So it may be resonable to not allow any attack while megascale moving.

 

If not' date=' then there should be a way to produce the effect, and "Megascale" applied to "Knockback" seems as good an approach as any.[/quote']Not within the rules, since Knockback is not a power. It's an (optional) side effect hitting with an attack. If you want to play with it, don't hit any important moons with enemys;)

 

The palindromedary isn't sure what a CvC is' date=' but suggests laundering the sheet[/quote']

My bad, wrong choice of words. Was still in the superhero genre back then.

Also, CvC means "Code vs. Killing" (well, at least I though it means that. But I just noticed that there is no second C.... )

Re: Using a D20

You have a important point there, Fearghus:

d&d put a lot of effort into limiting the "bonus cramming", with the varius types of bonusses (enchantment, sacred...). Or the Skill limits by basing them on level.

And magic items prices/levels are based on effect^2, to create an exponential growth curve.

So it seems the hero system avoided all this, just with using a different dice system.

Re: Limitations on Combat Skill Levels - same as the attack itself?

In 6E at least, the GM can deceide that and the example uses 3-pt csl's. If this is a rule/encouragement is hard to say.

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

I just meant: Even if you don't have a CvK and don't bother about living in "a world made of card stock", others will have a problem with you when you break to many things (like the Grond in Champion Universe Online). Even such gritty games like shadowrun, don't encourage excessive body count and rampant destruction.

And all of that is of coruse only a concern when you can (cost effectively) build such a power (or modify the rules so you can).

When you can build this and think you have a chance to use it without the world trying to kill you, have fun with it.

I do not jugde playing styles, genres or modifying the rulesystem. I merely point out possible flaws in what you describe and when it doesn't bother you, just go on and ignore me.

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

All of those things are purely campaign based. You are making huge assumptions about other's gaming style. Some of us play Watchmen' date=' not Superfriends...[/quote']

You still have to do this inside the rules, and there a plenty of things to remember when trying to make "mega-knockback", as noted above. Of course you can ignore the rules and all warnings. It is totally okay when you want to play that way.

 

But even watchmen should watch out to not knock down the empire state bulding/world trade center by punching enemy brick Nr. 2055 through it. This will totally outweight any good they have done so far and might even get the other watchmen groups to hunt them (they have clearly shown that they are a treat to the normals).

 

Even in the most gritty campaign or the supervillian biz there should be some rules to play by.

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

CvK can be circumvented' date=' either by the character himself (Ego Roll to overcome psych lim), or by his opponents (or "friends"!) (mind control, mental illusions, Images).[/quote']

When it is a Total CvK, the GM can forbid it entirely. The EGO roll is up to the GM, and at +5!

When my friends mind control me to kill Dr. D, I would most likely regard them as villians from then on. No character with CvK could use someone this way to circuvent it, and no one with CvK could stand by idlily while he does so.

Also, most gm require you to take CvC and leave it on your sheet.

 

That said, I think about a only Strong CvC (isntead of Total). Basically "Wouldn't kill, unless to save someone from imediate danger". Like going full out vs. Darkseid the second he shows up (unless he comes in peace). Or breaking Gronds neck, when he's about to crush the orphanage. And even then, I would let my character make a EGO roll to really go full out (deceiding to do so and really doing it a two diferent things).

And after that, there could be great remorse for having done it (or even for having tried; or for trying and failing).

 

Yes, the villians are an option. But even among them, few should just kill everything on the first ocassion (that is reserved for apokalyptic supervillians). The rest should go for the "pool with laser equipped sharks" to dispose of supers, not attacking them with a Killing Attack once the are k.o.

Re: Tenure as a perk

Which is why my university proffessor is the secret ID of Dr. Mentalist. All the meetings end on schedule' date=' and everyone votes the way he likes.[/quote']

He still has to apply to meetings sometime teach people. That would fall into some kind of social complication that collides with his heroing/vilianing.

 

Also, if he is a campion/hero using his mental powers on his colleages would be a total no-go. It's like the powers of the jedis: You could use them to hit on women, or get a better price in almost anything, use telekinesis for pranks,... - but you are already on the path to the dark side.

A Jedi (Hero/Super) should only use his powers to fight evil (situations the force has brought him into), not for his own ends. Once you start using your powers that way, using them on politicans, team members, bystanders for convenience isn't that far away anymore...

And soon you may think, that the world needs your guidance....

Re: Limitations on Combat Skill Levels - same as the attack itself?

If I get it right, what you want to do is a 2 Point CLS. It could (could!) even be defined as for any Blasts, but then may not apply if you use any combat maneuvers (like haymaker) with the blast.

The only truly "legal" may to limit CSL's seems to make them a Focus, Restrainible, Material Manifestation or similar. Pretty much anything you would try to make a Flash-Resistance or other minor Special Power legal for a Power Framework (I say minor, since you can use flash resistance in fewer circustances than duplication/summoning).

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

6E2 117 Says' date=' it's your base OCV without any bonuses (I think it is the same with a aimed throw).[/quote']

I am considering "Played Bullet Storm/Crysis/Half Life for the physics" +x OCV, Only for targeted throwning/directed knockback.

It would count (since it is +OCV, or "+ Base CV"), but will still be subject to campaign limits. And the limitation value may be low, depending on how easy it is to make knockback. And of course, with an CVC you have to make certain the enemy doesn't dies (or both don't die).

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

We seem to have shifted from "Megascale Knockback" to "Multiple purchases of x2 Knockback".

 

The latter results in increasing knockback damage. The former does not, unless something changed in 6e.

Knockback is not a "AOE Power", "Movement Power" or "Power that works on Range". It's the side effect of a power. Therefore you can't apply 6E Megascale to knockback.

And aplying it to a Movement Power usable on others, would make it subject to normal attac power ruling. And you can't Megascale the effect of an attack power (only it's range).

So what object is that? "Arranging to hit another opponent" requires an attack roll. So what's your OCV with a knocked back opponent?

6E2 117 Says, it's your base OCV without any bonuses (I think it is the same with a aimed throw).