Christopher

Re: How To Delay Effect

Anyway, consinder something like "Physical Manifestation" with the right special effects.

Damage over Time with only one Damage Instance is also a way to go and it even provides sugestion on how the "DOT" can be stooped.

Useable on others may be a far cry, but it gives rules on how to "give" powers to others, like the ability to grant flying to others. May not be the right thing, since pillars rarely want to explode (but how about a summoned zombie suicide bombing squad?)

For some special effect a different aproach may be suitable:

Perhaps the character just has to tag/paint the target and once he has accuired all, he multifires/autofires the (indirect) damaging power. Perhaps with some kind of Constant, No End Clairsentience. Or somehow using the targetting abilites of a mind scan/detect (only what he touchend with intention to blow up) for this.

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

The COM stat did nothing. No equivalence whatsoever.

You mean: "It did nothing in the games I used to play"?

Others have time and again showed that they could use it effectively. The other stats were most likely clearer defined in their effects. Either trough rules, or common conception (what you can do with STR is pretty clear).

About the professor: Bad choice. INT may be the base for you INT-based skills, but it doesn't has to be (you can just take a 11- base throw and go from there). It says so right in the description for INT.

Re: Superpowers and Ethics

I think it depends on the SFX of the Mind Control. If the SFX is that the character is very persuasive then why would it be an assault? I think we're getting too caught up on the game mechanics here. Given the right SFX and limitations' date=' MC could be used as another way to make someone very persuasive. I don't see that as being assault.[/quote']

Why would the SFX change the in game effects? And these in game effect include how etical it is and how they are viewed. I already said that, but it most likely got lost in the long posts.

 

Mind Controll says that it is taking away the free will, in it's first sentence.

 

When you want to be persuasive, use the interaction skills and slap bonus after bonus on them. Don't use MC if you don't want MC. Don't complain about ethics dicussion, when you use MC.

And don't try to change the game effect (people trying to linch you for mindbending) using an sfx.

Re: What sort of technology do you use in yiour games?

I know some GM's on conventions, who use laptops for good effect. Just load up a die roller and rolling hidden becomes easy. When properly equipped and used, they can replace a gm-screen + written pages. The downside is, that the gm can become to focussed on the screen.

On most other games I play, on-place-gizmos usually are impractical for us. We often don't even have the place for our character sheets on the table. Glasses, chips, minatures and co ususally take up the rest. And the glasses are a real treath to electronic devices...

Of course, the music collection is always near. Be it a simple CD-Player (yes, they still exist), a MP3-Enabled Player or a Desktop/Laptop plugged into one of the former or good speakers.

And in preparation for a game, not using a computer at some point is unthinkable (for both gm and players).

Re: American Dream character, getting out from dust

It's a matter of degrees. Enough Mind Control and you'll have just about anyone killing anyone else.

Wich is exactly what I don't want some of my power to do. I have asked Steve Long about it, maybe there is such a rule that everybody overlooked. And if everything else fails, there are always the Limited Power Guidelines (but I prefer "official" ruling every time).

About the Kiss, here are some more thoughts:

Advantages:

Alternate Combat Values (OCV vs. DCV +0), since the "lockup" is not mentally, but physically.

Limitations:

Only while Grabbing the Target. I have no Idea what that would be worth. It could simply replace the damage of a choke (you only grab the head).

Re: Superpowers and Ethics

Using wealth is bribery (the skill).

Using "I am a rich guy" is a bonus to charm is most circumstances.

And please stop using ultra-multi quotings. Reading them is a test of patience, and hardly suiteable for a discussion

We had a lot of discussion about Mind Controll in some threads. I would like to know if there is any existing limitation that let's you limit the maximum effect of the Mind Controll?

Basically like these examples:

"Subliminal Message", Mind Controll, Only up to EGO

"Sugestion", Mind Control , Only up to EGO+10

"Command" (from D&D), Mind Controll Only up to EGO+20 (Order "die" means he only plays dead).

Re: American Dream character, getting out from dust

No. It's there to controll the actions of someone. Damit, I want to be able to copy the "Command" Spell from D&D.

I seriously put that on the list for the next APG.

Re: Superpowers and Ethics

To distill things I've seen here' date=' it sounds like there are folks who think that Mind Control is, [u']by definition[/u] evil, because it overrides an individual's free will. My interpretation of some comments I've seen is that it is purported to be even more unethical/more evil than the use of lethal force, because a person with a gun held to his back can still opt to act despite that threat, and the mind controlled individual cannot. I'm not certain I agree with that, but I have to think about it.

It is certainly more tempting to abuse, than a fire blast or PRE attack (since that could be identified and judged by court as Threating or Assault).

This also aplies, at some point, to the magic in shadowrun. They solved it by adding the rule that a magical action leaves "residue". Ironically that way a mage spills even more evidence across the room, that a berserker with a dozen cuts and whirwind-attack.

To make "hiding ones trail" possible, they allowed to "erease" the magic aura, given enough time (wich is not always that plenty in SR).

So, how about we just "adopt" that concept to HERO?

One thing that also disturbs me a little bit, is that there seem to be no "Maximum Effect" Limitation for MC and Mental Illusion (at least I found none). Such a rule would allow to build very effective/result save EGO+10 attacks, without the chance (or risk) to archieve EGO+30.

Re: Superpowers and Ethics

I think a lot of the discussion was initally started by one Misconception on the Part of Hugh:

"Mind Control" is a game mechanic' date=' so it's easy to see "this overrides free will", but it's really just persuasion or coercion that has the advantage of, perhaps, being harder to detect and, certainly, being more certain of achieving the desired result.[/quote']

There is one flaw in this: It say's it overrides free will, right in the first line of the game effect: "A character with this Mental Power can take control of another character’s mind, and thus of his actions." 6E1 253

He wanted to define it as an "Very persuasive" SFX. However, such a definition has no effect on the game mechanics, including what is allowed and/or ethical with that power.

 

"Persuasion" is Conversation, Charm, PRE-Attacks...

Mind Control is... Mind Controll.

 

About the etics:

I would simply aply the same you would aply to using focre (or the threat of it). Is it etical to tie someone up, so you can force feed him his meds? The answer aplies to mind controll with the same effect too.

Of course, to archieve a lasting effect on someone with psychic instabilites you would have to make it either make the "victims thinks it was his own decision roll", or use normal persuasion (not making the "own decision roll" would be as effective as force-feeding - meaning it is counter productive for the healing process).

Re: American Dream character, getting out from dust

Are you upset that an EGO +20 would make someone mindcontrolled into thinking they loved the kisser? Isn't that the point of Mind Control?

No, I am uncomfortable with a Love-Power that makes you kill your wife (of course, superhuman induced love can make you do that). Also, sometimes all I want to archive is a EGO+10 effect.

I had this idea for an "Angro-Power" for a brick: Must attack User; Only up to EGO+10.

That way he would target the user, even if you couldn't really do damage. But could still flee (EGO+20) and it wouldn't force people to attack you when they don't want to fight (EGO+30).

And I think MC would be a lot less problematic for most GM's, if it could be build with that limitation.

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

It would be like a latent ability. Then they could spend experience to buy it up to a consciously used ability' date=' if they so choose. They then know how to make their beauty work for them, or in the case of ugly villains like Fiacho or Durak, make themselves even more terrifying based on their looks.[/quote']

Or even start at the disadvantage "Gorgeous" and transform it into an advantage (power).

 

I also thought about a very good looking dress/hero outfit to give a bonus (basically Striking Apereance, OIF). Opales "American Dream" super could go in that direction, when she finishes the conversion to 6E.

Re: Damage Negation: how much?

If Reduced Negation starts getting added to other slots to top off the MP pool (say the Reduced END slot)' date=' that starts sounding a little munchkiny, so GMs will have to take a careful look at the sfx to make sure it is justified. Or maybe not, depending on just how often Damage Negation is used.[/quote']

You can always add or link a power outside of the MP with a MP slot (but not the other way). The downside would be, that it cost's a lot and it only works for one attack of your MP.

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

I don't know COM at all, but from what I heard so far it's arguably how often any of the mentioned characters could actually use Sexy Presence Attacks/Charms.

Also, Striking Apereance can also mean being intimidating. I have no idea if this could be archieved with lowered COM.

And you can still get bonusses for Sexy-Presence attacks/charm with some things like Apropirate Setting/Right tool for the Job (Sexy Dress ), Genuine Need, "Target is in Retreat" (a single in a single bar).

On the other Hand, Tarkofanes may get -4d6 allone for Bad Reputation (you know he really wants to kill you), -3d6 for being in the wrong mood and I would even go so to say any character has a Total Psycholigcal Complication "No Nekropilia" (another 3d6), that is not listed because of the really low game relevance.

Re: Damage Negation: how much?

Do you mean 10-12 PD/ED + 6/6 DC Damage negation?

Re: 6th Edition Brick

It took me over a week, but finally I have a draft (it is not really complete, but it tells you where she goes):

Landslide:

25/60 STR +15

12 DEX +4

20/30 CON +10

13 INT +3

10 EGO

13 PRE +3

7 OC +20

7 DCV +20

3 OCMV

3 DCMV

5 SPEED 30

7 PD 5

7 ED 5

15/24 REC 11

50 END 6

13 BODY 3

60 STUN 20

15 Running 3

4 Leaping 0

0 Swimming -2 (sinks like a stone....)

156

Defenses will come in one of theses configurations:

7 Normal, 3 Resistant

7 Normal, 18 Resistant (5 of wich cost endurance);

7 Normal, 8 Resistant, -6 Damage Negation (including the 5 wich cost endurance)

Constant Powers (Survivalist, Silicon Based Physiology):

4 Knock Resistance -4m (Heavy Template)

2 LS, Extended Breathing: 1 End/Minute

1 LS, Diminished Eating: once per week

1 LS, High Pressure

2 LS, High Radiation

2 LS, Intense Heat

1 LS, Longelvity: doubled Lifespan

10 LS, Immunity: To all terestial Diseases and Poisons

8 Regenration (1/Hour; 8 AP)

9 "Tough Skin" 3 rPD/rED, 9 AP

10 Power Defense

Total: 50

Limited Powers (all unified -1/4; maybe "personal limitation", see Notes):

8 +10 CON (10 AP), Unified(-1/4)

7 +9 Recovery (9 AP), Unified(-1/4)

28 +35 STR, 35 AP, Unified(-1/4)

23 Increased Regeneration (adds to normal; Total of 2/Turn w/ Regrow Limbs or 37 AP;effective 29 AP), Unified(-1/4) maybe Endurance to Maintain and/or Concentration (not ceratin jet)

5 Steadfast: Knockback Resistance -6m (for a total of 10m), Unified(-1/4)

Total w/o Limitation: 71

64 80-Points multipower Reservere, all Slot Unified(-1/4) (and mybe "Personal Limitation" also Part of the "Limited powers"):

7v Superspeed Run (+45m = 60m, 2x Noncombat), 45 AP, Unified(-1/4), 36 RC

1v Strong Leap (+16m = 20m, 2x Noncombat) 8 AP, Unified(-1/4), 6 RC

5f Just like a walk in the rain DC -6/-6 (60 AP), Unified(-1/4), 48 RC

5v Impenetrable Body: 10 PD/10 ED, Resistant (+1/2) 30 AP, Unified(-1/4), 24 RC

1f Subconcious magical shielding: 5 PD/5 ED, Resistant (+1/2), 15 AP, Cost Endurance to Activate(-1/4), Unified(-1/4), 10 RC (mostly as a NND protection)

Total Cost for Multipower: 83

Current Total Costs: 360

75 Disadvantages:

10 Phys Compl., Weighty

20 Code vs. Killing, Common, Total

25 The Gang (DNCP, Normal, Frequently, Group of four People)

Note: A small gang she prevented from bullying people. Are after her to "even the score" but don't have the means to do her any harm. Oblivious to danger and so they need to be saved whenever they pop up...

15 Polarizing Presence (Distinctive Features, Concealable, Always Noticd Major Reaction, Easy Detection)

Note: A little bit like the "gorgeous" example, but is not based on atractiveness but simply her presence (unless se sucessfully disguises). Stops if Magical Powers are drained/affected by Power Limitations since it is somehow based on them.

5 Public No-Name ID (Infrequently, Minor)

Note: She can not hide her ID effectively, but is also new to this side of the world and is thus considere "mostly unknown".

Background:

{Highly suvivalist, silicon based and magical infused critter found it's way to our earth. Either from space, or alternate earth}

{Sabrina Meier was a comming artistic gymnastic, on her way to joining the german olypics team}

{Sabrina was attacked by the alien/alternate earth critter, but it was defeated by a nearby hero}

{On dead, the final survival reaction kicked in: The a part of the blood became alive and "merged" with the first creature it could find -Sabrina}

{As she got concuios again, her body was transformed it a half-silicon based lifeform and her density has increased to the piont that she weights 400 Kilogram}

{As a Metahuman she was not allowed to continue a olypimc sports career. Besides, the equipment had difficulties with her new weight (wich doesn't stopped her from trying anyway)and her new body made all her former training useless}

{On the plus side her body was now superhumanly strong and durable, wich is even augemted by her personal magic effect}

{After the change, there was little left to do for her and she deceided to become a superhero. After sufficcient training, she sets out to "campaing city" to do some good}

Apereance:

Her physique is still that of a slender, human woman. But her skintone is grey, and "veins" of white cristall are everywhere on the surface. Her irises are silver. Also, she weights a lot more than she looks like.

Clothing/Hair changeable: She can create and change both personal clothing and hairstyle at will. This is not really Hair or Weave, but rather a form of metal (she dubbed it "Phoenix Metal"), formed into thin metal weave. The collor patterns are limited (brown to black, ) and regardless of form it does not provide any in game bonus (can't help hide, no termal resistance). But the clothing is as tear resistant as questionite and naturally "clings" to her body if she want's it. She can't form items and removing the clothings/hair or chaging to a different set results in them just "burning" away in a heatless fire (hence the name).

Powers/Tactics:

She's a land based brick.

She has two sources of powers her mutation/silicon based organism. And the inner magical powers that further increase her physical abilites. Despite beeing magical, these powers are mostly self sustaining once "locked in" and there is currently no know way to use them on others.

Another noticedable ability, is that her body "adapts" to adverse conditions when subjected to it (she has a lot of NND defenses and they are going to be more...).

Her main weakness however, are cold and low pressure/vacuum.

In battle she has one distictive weakness: She has no distance attack (aside from "Objects of Oportuniy") and thus has difficulties with fliers.

Note:

I uses the "Heavy" Template, for about 400-799 Kilo of permanent density increase.

"Personal Limiation": Part of her Weaknesses may be that her powers do not work in cold environment, low pressure environment and (potentially) vs. Cold Based Attacks

I am not certain yet how exaclty cold/low pressure affects her. What I know with certainity is: It kicks in, as soon as she leaves the comfort zone downward (starts loosing rec/end).

Possible ways (severity gardes) it could affect her:

- Just the magical powers go. They can stop bullets, but cold or thin air just washes them away. Makes her a competent normal at best. In this interpretation, she may herself have the LS Cold/vacuum but her "Limited Powers" have the limitation that they don't work in that environment. (Only Limitation)

- Physical effect, low: Her body is the one affected by cold/low pressure but imedeatly starts using the magic to counter its effect. Basically the sequence DRAIN (all her unified powers), then STUN, then BODY for a Susceptibility disadvantage. (Only Susceptibility)

- Physical effect, high: Like Cryptonite. Instant loss of powers and ongoing damage (STUN, then BODY; but more around the time peroid for rec/end loss from environment). (Limitation + Susceptibility)

Things I also consider to give her:

Martial arts (Grab, throws, punches). But first I have to read through that part of the rules.

A double knockback for (parts) of her STR, but not when using objects to hit (unarmed, HTH and non-Killing only).

Tremor Sense, Passive (Targetting Sense/Detect based on Touch; Could skip the flash resistance for that).

Megascale Tremor Sense, Concetration (0 DCV); Highly Optional, and only if GM thinks it fits.

Re: Damage Negation: how much?

Worthwhile, unless there are no people with DN.

As one of the attacks in a Multipower when I know there are some DN enemys, of course.

But never built one.

Re: Counter-stereotyping

A time traveller who has neither super tech (or the ability to build some), nor knowledge of what is going to come:

"I only changed parts when they needed to be changed, I didn't build them. And History was so boring because of Mr./Mrs.{incarnation of boring History-Teacher Archetype}."

Re: Tenure as a perk

Which of these acts are morally questionable...

 

a. "I use my mind control powers to convince the crowd to lynch this man I know is guilty!"

or

b. "I use my mind control powers to convince the crowd to not lynch this man even though I know he's guilty!"

Either way, it is Questionable for the characters future development.

"The path to hell is paved with good intentions."

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

Here's something I've considered suggesting for some time: what if Area of Effect could apply to Block or Reflection so that there is a counteractive defense to AoE attacks? This would simulate numerous things' date=' from Wonder Woman blocking Giganta's fist to a Dragonball character deflecting a giant energy blast to two kaiju battling it out with AoE-sized fists. I figure that defensive area must equal or exceed the attack area. Maybe an OCV penalty could apply?[/quote']

There is a "can be deflected disadvantage". 6E1 145

For Dragonball/Wonder Woman: I wouldn't build them as AOE (did they ever hit more than one target?), there are just Blasts/HTH with oversized visual effect. The only time they wouldn't dodge them, was when the planet was in danger of being hit and destroyed.

About the Kaiju: Relative to each other, they don't have AOE.

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

I thought this was still about the x000d6 Knockback Damage or x km comeback-distance. For that, I am pretty sure the Autor did anything to say: Knockback + Megascale = "Not what I had in mind".

Also, even if I am rigth about it, there is this standing option to ignore/rewrite rules in the name of dramatic sense.

Heck, you don't even need megascale to do this. Just define (as Campaign Rule) that knockback-distance per body, Knockback resistance and damage go in steps of 10m instead of 2m, with no extra cost or other changes to the rules.

Re: Limitations on Combat Skill Levels - same as the attack itself?

small correction

The best is the Overall Level (in 6e it costs 12 points) and the first reduction of it results in 10 levels that apply either to just All Combat or to All Skills.

Right. And they even affect all caracteristics rolls.

And from a certain point of view, Penalty Skill levels fall into that area too.

Re: Tenure as a perk

So Obi-wan was on his way to the dark side when he MC'd the storm troopers with "these aren't the droids you're looking for"?

That's the interesting part: No. Not more than he was while using it any other time along the road (EP 1-3).

Because it wasn't his decission to be there. He just followed the force (the heroic story). Using the force to get a transport from the gungans, trying to get the hyperspace parts and freeing Anakin from Slavery: He was guided there by the force, he was literally send there to do this. The most noteable part is, when he alowed vader to kill him: The force said it was time to leave the world, and he left.

What anakin did to the sandmen? That was Darkside action. Not because of the hate, but because he followed his emotions (contrary to silencing them and listening to the force).

Re: Limitations on Combat Skill Levels - same as the attack itself?

I am hesitant about treating skill levels like powers unless they are conceptually powers.

So, you wouldn't treat characteristics like powers, unless they are conceptual powers either? I don't see the difference between a +30 STR in Characteristics-Points and +30 STR from a Power with no Limitations.

I agree with Hyperman in that CSL's are effective Limited +OCV. Or a +OCV, +DCV, +Damage Multipower, with flexible Slots. The fact that the best cost's 10 points, the allocation time(0-Phase) and intervall (once per Phase) pretty much says "Multipower with 10 Points Reserve".

Re: American Dream character, getting out from dust

For the Kissing and Only Ones atracted, you could go for "Limited Class of Minds"(-1/2) and "Skin-Contact" (-1). Maybe add Concentration to the Extra Time (it is easier to hit her).

Maybe Limited Effect(-1), as in these example Love-based Mind Controlls:

Cupid’s Touch(6E1 257): Mind Control 10d6, Telepathic (+¼) (62 Active Points); Only To Control/Inflict Love (-1). Total cost: 31 points.

Cupid’s Dart (6E BR 56): Mind Control 12d6 (60 Active Points); OAF (-1), Only To Control/Inflict Love (-1). Total cost: 20 points.

What me absolutely irritates, is that there is no "Maximum Effect Limitation" for Mental Powers. No way to say EGO+20 tops (before counting complications into it). At least there is nothing in the Basic Rulebook and the two core rulebooks, perhaps someone with the APG can help you out here.