Christopher

Really? You're going to nit pick over a typographical error? Did you notice that nobody else called attention to this?

It was supposed to be a funny quip. Like Tasha did with me not to far ago.

I am not some inscecure guy that has to distract himself from his own flaws, using any real miniscule and several imagined mistake of other people.

I could also see this done as a type of Change Environment attack with the special effect of raising the holiness level around the priest. It would feel like a burning scourge to undead or demons within the area affected, since they could be written up with having a Susceptibility to such an environment.

 

Throw in a PRE attack on top and watch them flee from the holy man.

Actually I missread it/developed a Idea going one step further:

Every Character has a Temperature level in wich he can operate without penalties.

As a Campaign Rule, you could add a new "Holyness/Unholyness" axis to the Environment. Every character would have levels in wich he can operate without penalties. Levels that you could then affect with CE, the same way you would with Temeprature, Wind or Radiation Level.

I'm not making a DnD setting. Its modern day only he's a priest who is ordered by the Vatican to combat supernatural/other worldly bad guys like demons and undead. Just looking for some ideas for abilities.

To make a paralell:

There are at least 3 ways to build a "Selfguided Missile" (Simple Blast/RKA, Automaton, APG 2 Selfacting Focus).

You are asking us how to build Chaff, without first saying us wich of those totally different appraoches you are using.

Every last of the Clerics abilities - down to the class skills - only make sense within a D&D-like setting.

We need definitions of the valid targets for his powers, before we can give you any advise on how to build them:

Do undead count? Are there even undead in your world or is it a virus or alien technology?

Does any being from another Dimension count? What about time or dimenension travelers of human origin? What about aliens?

Does it work agaisnt "Evil"? If so, what makes a creature "Evil" for the purpose of this power? The presence/lack of wich complications defines "Evil"?

Does his healing deal damage to undead? Do his damaging abilities heal undead.

A player has created a hillbilly gadgeteer who dies most of his work with spare parts. Sort of a redneck MacGyver. He thought about the name Junkpile but it is already a Marvel character. Any thoughts?

I asume you meant "who does most" not "who dies most". Unless you meant Dying (coloring).

If he was a german, I would call him "Trabant", after the vehicle of the same name.They were basically made from scrap-metal and plastic, But damn, you could repair them with a welding torch and in a pinch even take two damaged ones and make a functioning one plus some spare parts out of them.

While it was imported to the US somewhat, how about a similar US made car series?

Another alterantive would be the Wartburg (named after the fortress). According to my dad that cars frame could be 100% rust and it still would not fall appart.

BTW Telepathy is for READING minds. If you want to make someone do something that's Mind Control.

 

I Agree that a good Conversation roll would be the ticket to getting the opponent talking and perhaps to start a monologue.  

i suppose a Mind Control effect would be another way to do it. I used Telepathy because that was the power used for the "Tell Me What I Want To Know" super-skill. That probably makes more sense for a one-on-one situation. Making the villain blab their master plan to a group would be more Mind Control.

What is the difference between "I read your mind in an instant and tell the group what your plan is" and "I force you to tell the group what your plan is"?

Effectively the whole group knows the plan in either case.

There are a few fringe cases (like a minute long plan, a henchmen overhearing this) but do those come up often enough to really mater?

Please note that I saide more than 2 actions in a row.

 

The predictability of the Speed Chart is its only flaw IMO and a minor one at that.

Interestingly SR5 avoids that in it's own way, by having turns a lot shorter.

I sugested shortening hero turns to 1/4 too 1/3 of thier current lenght. At the very least, we should half thier lenghts to 6 second/phases per turn tops.

The shorter the turn, the less "tralining actions in a row" can happen. If a Hero turn was only 3-4 Segments long, more then 2 actions in a row a pretty damn hard to archieve. Especially if you needed a few of those passes for Dodge.

The shorter the turn, the more the abort mechanic can be simplified. Full Defense bonuses last the whole remaining turn, but quit at the end of the turn.

Many people here have good experience with limiting the SPD range (as opposed ot just making it fixed).

For Heroic level games, SPD 3 or 4 can be enough for the players. Mooks have usualyl around 2.

For superheroic settings, SPD should be in a spread of 3. 5 for Bricks and others that need no real SPD. 6 or so for Blasters and Martial Artists. 7 for Speedsters.

It is true that between Aborting and being Stunned, tracking who acts when next can quickly become a problem. It is indeed one of the biggest propblems for Play by Mail or Play by Post combat resolution.

Shadowrun 4E had the same problem to a slightly lesser degree (shorter SPD chart, so to speak).
But they did solve it in 5E. With such a success, I pointed out that porting this to Hero might be a good idea:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/92713-initiative-spd-and-shadowrun-5e-initiative/

So you'd acutally need to define choking better. When people lose consciousness from being choked, it can be from one of two things. The first is called strangulation, which is the collapse of the windpipe, causing a lack of air to the lungs. I think this is the method you are probably talking about. The second involves a choke hold or other maneuver which applies pressure to the neck without collapsing the windpipe. There are competing explanations as to why this causes blackouts, either through constriction of the arteries and other blood vessels that supply the brain or through pressure on the "sensors" for high blood pressure which cause a dilation of the blood vessels in the brain, which when combined with a lack of high pressure induces ischemia.

 

With breathing through skin you would likely be immune to the first but likely not be immune to the second. To be immune to the second you would have to not require blood flow to the brain, have a different physiological method for oxygen delivery or something of that nature.

 

- E

I give it a 95% that this thread was for the Posters attempt to reinvent this character:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/94017-tongueleaping-powers/

So while not mentioned, I asumed superheroic settings mostly. That is why I sugested just expanding this ability to include "unusual circulatory system" so it works against both special effects for being choked.

Not even a book like HSMA (wich is firmer tied to the Heroic Side) delves into the difference between "crushing the Windpipe" and "stopping the Bloodflow". There is one choke Maneuver, one type of Choke NND to defend against.

The original post asked: "The ability to breathe through the skin (as some amphibious creatures can) would be life support but how many points? "

As so often that is a special effect that can describe many game effects. So we went for likely wanted game effects and posted builds for those.

I think this was discussed once before but I didn't find anything. I'm thinking about a character who is a set of conjoined twins who basically just have a broad torso and two heads. Each head has different abilities. Would the extra actions of being two people trapped in one body be treated as just extra speed or two different speeds and mental attributes?

The bolded part with be the tricky and/or expensive part of the whole thing. You can not have two characters worth of abilities on one sheet for the same price as everyone elses one character.

It either must cost more or be inherently less powerfull.

6E1 204 has this little thing among the Duplication Examples:

"Nine-Headed Hydra: (creates a “group of characters” which represents the creature’s various heads, all attached to the base character, which is the body and main head)

Duplication (creates 8 80-point Duplicates) (31 active points);

cannot recombine (-0).

total cost: 31 points."

But as usualy for duplication, the cost for "altered Duplicates" is high. And the Duplicates do not get to spend the points the main body uses for Duplication either.

If you use a Duplicating Character, Teamwork is generally advised to use Coordinated attacks in the self-made group as each individual will be quite weak.

A similar recent thread was this one:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/94043-fusion-with-other-characters/

At least I delved into ways to make composite Characters as a GM.

So the Character has a Mental issue that they can't use ego to get around. Which makes it a PHYSICAL Limitation. Probably infrequent because they usually take their meds. Slightly because it causes them problems like getting beat up and placed in jail and it changes their whole mental condition.

 

Also know your Audience because this way of looking at Mental Health could be insulting to those who are dealing with such issues.

I am against using Complications for switching personalities, actually.

Looking at the Hulk, he always switched personality when it suited the Author. And for all intents and purposes, the Hulks player is the Hulks Author. Just because the Character has no control over it, does not mean the Player has no control over it.

And since this is a NPC/Villain, the GM is the Author.

Regarding the Audience, such stuff can be lighthearted too. Let's just start saying "Flash, Batman and Orion walk into a Villain bar...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJq2PAI-Fxc

The Area Effect is an advantage, but it offers nothing advantageous, it actually limits what you can teleport through it.

The minimum Size of a Gate AoE is 2m surface. Human doorsize. How any things will fit into that, but weight more then x16 human mass?

I guess gates are kind off wierd by design. I guess we could just wave the Weight Limit in favor of the size limit. Or say only the 1m segment actually crossing the gate counts for weight.

In effect gates just bridge space and even allow attacks to go through - you can not teleport an attack (that would be the special effect of Deflection  Indirect on the Attack).

One thing you might have overlooked is that before it is AoE, it is UAA first. This is an attack power before you can even apply AoE.

AoE on any attack power allows you to effect any target within AoE range. You do not even need to touch the target (if the normal range is touch) - it jsut becomes centered on you instead.

I agree that with gate most of that advantage is lost, but you can not even apply Gate without AoE, UOO and Constant (plus likely Megascale). You do retain that none of the intended users have to be touched by you.

You can also still fully weaponise this like any other cheesy Teleportation move (indeed better, as you do not need UAA to weaponise it). It is getting late, but afaik you could turn off a constant power latest at your next phase. Gate into floor. Enemy falls through. Disable power before they can come back.

Being "Knocked Out" instantly changes DCV to 0. As Steve Long's reply about the state of waking up very explicitly references those rules, I imagine you can carry that over. I would. 

 

 

The absence of official rules allows plenty of room for House Rules.[...]

I think you missed my post above. Or at least my later edit.

I was thinking about Orion last night...Footfall used it as Man's last ditch way to fight the Aliens and retake the High ground...the reasons Not to use it are many, and reasonable...for people who live in a Biosphere. But it could be the "go to" tech for mad AI's (!) the drive system is pretty dang close to a "ultimate weapon" and it lets you move around. "Win-win".

 

So lets consider a "Beserker" that builds a Solar halo around a star for Anti-matter, and uses a micro gram or so to trigger tiny to small Fusion reactions. If it decides to run from you, how do you navigate, or target through a chain of mico to mega kiloton blasts?

 

For offense it can use nuke pumped X-ray lasers, and um...nukes small 10 ton sized blasts could power small craft, and kinetic kill packages real nice. It can mine Hydrogen from gas giants for moar Bombz! At least you should be able to detect it comming from a long way off...

Targetting is rather easy: Do not shoot from behind. Catch up with it and fire broadsides.

While Gas Giants can be somewhat interesting as fuel source, it really wants to go for Stars. Much more fuel in those and Stellar canibalism is somewhat known.

Also the gain from stellar wind should not be underestimated. In effect it is a Star Sized, Star Massed and Star Magnetic Field sized Ramscoop during travel.

I am not quite sure what you mean with a "Halo" here. You mean a Niven ring?

Lightsleep still means that you wake up normally i.e with No END etc.  Building it with LS: Does not need to sleep has a material difference in game play.  I would be happy enough to not have a limitation at all: Lightsleep costs the same as the highest level of LS No Sleep in any event.  Mind you, having to rest (but not sleep) is still more onerous than not having to sleep at all.  It might not come up often but then it is a real limitation on the base power, and being attacked whilst asleep is something that does happen in quite a lot of games.

 

In fact what I might do is buy the LS at the one point level: experienced guards only really need one good night's sleep a week, the rest of the time they are more than half awake even when resting their eyes.  That is even cheaper than Lightsleep, and not terribly unrealistic.  People can certainly go without sleep , or at least only tiny amounts, for a long time if they need to.

 

The problem with Lightsleep is that it is built as a situational PER bonus, probably because it is something normal people can have, so is far more expensive than not having to sleep at all, or having to rest but not actually sleep.

 

In fact, Sleep is treated in a bit of a weird way in Hero.  The lack of a DCV penalty (really, you should have a base DCV of 0 when asleep) is strange because it means that, for example, an experienced boxer would be more difficult to hit whilst sleeping than someone of the same size who lacks his combat prowess.

 

Doesn't seem right.

 

Anyway, there is a bit of a culture clash here.  I suppose the answer is that, in a game where you can not use powers or 'talents' built with powers, you can not get around the odd rules for being asleep, you can just do something about waking up.

 

Also, funnily enough, I couldn't spot any penalties for not sleeping.  I would suggest a cumulative -1 on all rolls per day of missed sleep, and you can temporarily overcome that with an EGO roll (at the appropriate penalty).  Level of success indicates how long you can throw off the effects of tiredness for (next roll, next phase, next turn, next minutes, next 5 minutes etc.

As for the price of Lightsleep vs Does not need to Sleep:

You are right, that is wierd.

I would guess Lightsleep is only applicatable if you can not buy "LS: No need to sleep to begin with? Hero is prone to a few odities in the very low point costs and the fringes of "genre Apropirate".

Maybe the LS just needs to be a lot more expensive in games where it actually matters?

That with no DCV penalty was propably my oversight. As Steve longs answer said:

"Sleeping is like being Knocked Out in every aspect, unless the GM says otherwise." So yes, you ae at 0 DCV on top of the 1/2 hit location penalties.

As the answer also said, Sleep Deprivatin rules are on APG II 112.

Right after they deal with natural Diseases.

Mostly it is a LTE loss, with the amount of LTE loss due to SD also triggering secondary effects.

It also clarifies the defense rules:

"A sleeping character is at DCV 0, DMCV 0 and cannot fght. Te penalty for targeting specifc Hit Locations against him is halved. All hits do 2x

STUN damage, since he’s automatically considered “Surprised.”"

Honestly, that is a genre convetion that simply "works".

It is like asking "how do I force my supers allies and adversaries to wear spandex?" They do or they do not, depending on the campaign and what the players expect.

However if I had to build it as a power (there is some utility if it is not the genre convention), Telepathy seems about right.

Mental Powers can be easily shifted to any NND defense. I think it was Tasha that wrote up a version of Rogue's "Draining Skin" that had NND: No Skin Contact. But I could not think of a fitting NND defense for this.

Maybe you could shift the OMCV/DMCV values around so it fits with Conversation Skills resolution? I mean in the end those are both 3d6 Rolls, so they should be somewhat interchangeable.

Finally, Social Combat Sysetms might work too. I think APG II had a few.

No, he doesn't. Carol Danvers is Marvel.

Oh right, Ferris (like the wheel), not Denvers (like the City). My youth Alzheimers is at it again

But hey, they both are Carrols that have scantly Super outfits, fly and shoot blasts, that propably explains my mixing them up.

Just a point of order, but being able to breathe through your skin would not necessarily make you immune to strangulation: most strangulation attacks put pressure on the jugular and restrict blood flow, which is what causes you to pass out quickly and then die.  The inability to breathe is a side effect, and an unpleasant one, but not usually the one you need to worry about - if you think about it you can hold your breath for a minute or more, and that is forever in Hero combat.  Certainly all martial arts choke holds concentrate on restricting blood flow.

 

Obviously the head has skin on it, but that is not going to help if there is no blood flow.

 

I would probably just assume that any minor advantage that accrued would be balanced by minor disadvantages.  What it would mean, for example, is that you could not use a scuba mask: you'd need a full body suit. Make it a zero point complication.

While a good point, I think we can ignore it.

As the HSMA text I quouted said, being immune to breathing makes you immune to a chockehold. Having unusual bloodflow is not mentioned.

Maybe we have to slightly redefine the power or expand it:

Realistically you would need a totally different circularoty system with that "skin lung". Asuming that those lines to your brain are also more strangulation resistant is not a far fetch in superheroics.

The blast (which is what I was comparing to) has the same probability of hitting, what is your point? The TK has to hit as well. The brick has to get to no range to throw and still hit as well.

 

The more I see some of your posts, the more I wish there was a block button here. The majority of your posts are simply contrary apparently for no other reason than to be contrary. There are times when you have good, valid concerns but generally it is just noise that inteferes with good discourse.

 

- E

I must agree with you.

Hugh tends to be overly agressive and go off on rants/sentence by sentence disections of other peoples posts just to "win" the discussion. Actually he did that before.

Indeed, that is how I noticed that the pattern of "disect Sentence by sentence" is a way to hide the weakness of your argument in a wall of text and repitition of the same claims twice over. Really helped me to stop falling for those.

No one forces you to read or respond to my posts. I thought we had a "FAQ on the forum" somewhere at one time that answered "why isn't there a block/ignore" button, but I can't find it quickly, and I'm not motivated enough to look harder.

You are posting because you want attention (for yourself or your viewpoint). Now you blame us for playing attention to you?

Please make up your mind.

Also please stop with those cheap non-conversation techniques to hide your lack of stuff to say. They are really a bit tiresome by now and I could take them appart in less time then it takes you to write them. I am a nice guy so I do not want that. But you come pretty close to forcing me too.

Right now I can not even tell if you agree, disagree or just talk agaisnt anything we say, effectively doing both at the same time.

It stays that Telekinetic or STR grab has more defenses then Teleport UAA.

Everyone being grabbed get's a Casual STR throw to break out (6E2 62, Making A Grab). So there needs to be some serious comparable STR for it to work.

TK has the added balancing that the AP/STR ratio is weakened towards Melee STR. 60 AP allows for 40 STR tops.

Entangle does not have that autoamticl casual STR use (you have to abort or wait for your phase). And one of the books (Toolkitting, 6E2, one of the APG's?) disussed adding "Casual STR Defense" to Entangle if players keep abusing it with weak Entangles.

With 5m Teleport, UAA I can port you into the sewers under the street, the others side of a wall or off the roof and have you out of the fight unless you are specifically desigend agaisnt that cheese or happen to have a proper counter by pure chance.

If you need to designed against a cheese, there chesse should not be allowed to exist in the first place.

*semi-aware would mean that they could be instantly aroused at a touch or noise stimulus over a certain level: sneaking past would not rouse them, clumping past would.  You model this by giving them a PER roll when there is an unusual change in the environment.

That is called "Lightsleep".

That "Life Support: No Sleep; Only to avoid penalties to End, Perception and CV while sleeping or waking up(-1/4)" would have to be worth it.

I put the limitaiton value so low because that is almost the entire reason you take that power to begin with - less time being asleep/vulnerable.

Yeah I don't really understand why though.  Usable against others/by others doesn't specify size.  Teleport doesn't specify size.  Just this one construction.  Again I agree it seems to make sense, But again, the power as written teleport's mass, not size.  Two objects of the same mass: one the size of a BB and the other the size of the empire state building; both can be teleported without regard to their area, only their mass.  That's how I understand it and how the rules are written, even in the description of UOO, its about mass, not size.

 

I get the concept behind the Area Effect: it simulates what you see in images and concepts of a gate: a circle x size, you can't get an elephant through.  But that seems to me to be a limitation on teleport, not an advantage.  You're not making the teleport more powerful by putting the size restriction on it, you're making it less powerful.

Gate seems not really intended to be a player power. More a plot device that needed a writeup. I mean why would I choose gate on my Teleport? It would only be an early warning for the target area and allow them to strike back through it.

I play in an occasional game where the GM*, in a move of genius, has a NPC who is the sister of one of the PCs and a part of the team who is a long range telepath and mass teleporter: she does not come out on missions as she has little combat resilience, but she can telepathically link us and get us to and from missions.

 

The problem with a PC with a mass long range teleport, from a GM POV is the Superman Problem: it is a bit of a killer power and you either need to constantly build stuff to specifically defeat it (hardened defences and such) or assume they can arrive or leave whenever they like, which can make the game a bit boring.

There are two solutions:

a) do not let that NPC cost points. Per the rules of "what not to spend points on", the GM is free to block the use of something no points were paid for at any time without needing a build. And I encourange them to use that options, if it serves the story. "What not to spend points on" rule is more the friend of the GM then the players.

Teleport Inhibitor: "Change Environment, -xm Teleport Movement". Per the rules for movement and CE, megascale movemt is affected before the the scaling. So for the usual very small movement meters with massive scaling it would be quite the effective counter. While only slightly affecting combat teleportation.

At it's core the "Resoruce Point" mechanic from APG I 196 are a VPP like construct for "real gear".

There are 4 Pools of Points:
Equipment Points

Vehicle/Base Points

Follower/Contact Points

Miscelaneous Points (can be used for any of the above purposes)

Could that be the Droid you have been looking for?

I find that first part optimistic. Populations don't work that way. Fear gets people to clamour to those with power (who need to keep the votes) to "Fix or do sumfink", and that's one of the very few levers we proles (including the scientists) have on the political classes. Having the pollies bask in their past successes is not a good way to get them to do something new.

From my point of view that is only a distraction.

Born of people incapable to accept thier own shortcommings and looking for Distrations and Scapegoats.

A common mistake while growing up, but not a unsourmountable one.

I managed to overcome that pattern of reality-denial and distraction despite having something that qualifies as mental illness. If I did it, everyone can do it.

I really need to write my theory over on the non-gamign discussion.

I approve heartily, and have but one demand: the submarine must be yellow.

But it will not be a manned Submarine, so nobody will be living in it!

More like the Star Sapphire.

Hal Jordan has both "DNCP: Carrol Denvers" and Hunted: "Star Sapphire" on his sheet.

That he needs to pull out the gem to get her back to normal after knocking her out is just a special effect of how 'incarcerating' this specific villain works.

You could maybe add a extended Social Compliation (has do hide Star Sapphires secret identity on top of his own)?

It depends heavily on how often that is going to happen. My usual rule is "once or twice per campaign is not worth a writeup". Every DNCP could be hit by Grodds Devolution Ray and turned into a mook or villain under the enemies control. Or pick up the Star Sapphire gem by accident and turn into the current Star Sapphire.

But it does sounds like you want that to happen more regulary.

Trying to help him come up with some good, creative priestly powers. He's of a new priesthood created by the Vatican precisely to combat supernatural evil forces.

What is the definition of "Supernatural" and "Evil"? Hero has no D&D allignment/creature type system to draw from.

The only reason D&D Clerics work like that is because D&D setting is designed around them working like that.

You can not make a 1 to 1 copy into a totally different setting.

You either need to adapt the setting to be closer to D&D.

Or use generalised abilities that do not rely on the setting.

You need to tell us wich of the two it is.

So I'm playing around with a supervillian idea. It's the old usually an ally until he stops taking his medication, puts on the mask, etc then spends days as a supervillian, The obvious course is a psyche lim but as he isn't really trying tostop being a supervillian he isn't trying to overcome the lim. So stick with lim or any other ideas? 

Something like Batman of the Future: Return of the Joker?

It depends how different both Characters actually are.

Do they have the same powers with slighly changed special effects (the Blast being a Bat-a-rang instead of a Pumpkin Bomb)?

Something more around Carrol Ferris (DNCP) being the Star Saphire?