Vigil

Re: Deathstroke Actually, the eye patch is part of his origin arc. As I recall, he alrady had his powers and was shot at point blank range by his wife (nice family). He managed to dodge but still lost his eye. Reminds me of Woody Allen and Diane Keaton in Annie Hall where she tells him that her husband shot himself in the eye. "Is he blind?" Woody asks. "No, he's dead." she replies. Vigil

Re: Deathstroke I'm not sure what to make of Slade's regeneration. It seems to be up and down and all over the place even moreso than Wolverine's. Early on, in fact, it may even have been a matter of SFX for Armor or even PD/ED. About the time that you mention, of him resurrecting and becoming immortal I think the whole idea got out of hand and was reigned back into some semblance of balance. I'd probably give him about 2 BODY/hour.

Re: Deathstroke Personally, I see bats as being about SPD 6, DEX 30 and Nightwing SPD 6, DEX 28. If they still remember their old Teamwork drills they'd coordinate very well. Cappy, I 'd put at about SPD 7, DEX 30 (maybe 31 or 32) and Deathstroke, SPD 8, DEX 33 or so. But this stuff is just off hand and has to work within the context both of the individual character and whatever NORMS are protrayed for them (something that's very problematic for Batman especially) as well as within the context of the world and other characters. Hence, the most essential skill for any good Champs designer is the old DI Skill, Balance. Vigil

Re: Deathstroke Sometimes, though, it's nice not to deal in 0s and 3s and 5s. I have a few characters with 24 Dex's etc. It's nice to change the flavor occassionally if the character still works.

Re: Deathstroke That's what I would do, based on my experience of the system, but that's only me and everyone here has a different take. I'm curious, did you ever run the Slade/Nightwing you posted? How did they fare in combat? Were they competitive with PCs? How they fare? Did they avoid damage? Suck it up? Were they too tough? Not enough so? What was the AP range of the PCs for attacks, defense, SPD, etc. I ask all this sort of thing to try to get a perspective on where your game sits in the continuum of campaigns I've seen. As this thread indicates, every one of us has a very different interpretation of the same material so you tend to get very different versions of characters within a continuum (ie, you'll never mistake one of Sam Bell's characters for one of Mitch Santorineos'). That being said, there tend to be certain hooks that work universally based on the level of the game. Vigil

Re: Deathstroke Way back in Different Worlds in Aug 82 there was a series of write ups of the then X Men and Magneto. As I was new to Champs at the time I used those write up as bench marks for essentially every character I created for quite some time. Now, obviously, that was a long time ago and things have changed quite a lot but they seemd consistent with what's depicted in comics. In his Different Worlds write up (which is as close as Champs ever got to "endorsed" or "authoratative" versions of published comics characters) Magneto was given a 26 EGO and Cyclops an 18. That's why I thought Slade would be around 20 since he's strong willed but he's nowhere near Maggie who regularly goes astral toe to astral toe with Professor X. Similalry, I've seen balanced portrayals of Hal Jordan which put him at around 35 EGO (about Prof X range). I guess all I'm saying is that there doesn't seem to be any evidence or real need for Slade to be that ungodly powerful, EGO wise since he can divert combat levels to ECV should the need arise. IMO, I'd lower his EGO and give him something like 15-20 point of Mental Defense to represent his will power. BTW, I'd put Bats (who seems to be the benchmark for just about everything ) at about 23 EGO and Supes around 25. Higher and they're getting into world class psionic terrotory where only extremely powerful psionics and highly trained mentalists should be. Heck, Dr. Destroyer has an EGO 26, the same as as the 1982 "official" Mags so I think there's good evidence for Deathstroke to be lower. As I mentioned before, I think your skill list is solid and inciteful, esp. your supporting evidence for the PRE skills. I'd still raise his PD/ED about 10 points each and add armor or some Damage Reduction (which, again, can represent strength of will) since Slade, as you've written him, is very vulnerable to being "one punched" and put out by just about anyone. Plus, looking at the supporting evidence,again, there's a pattern of Slade sucking up massive amounts of damage in fighting the Titans and other teams/supers esp in his own book and walking away. As portrayed, Slade would be stunned most of the time by average damage from a 12d6 attack, which means most PCs would eat him for breakfast and walk all over him...even low powered ones. Higher PD/ED keep him in the game and make him competittive. Moreover, I wouldn't worry about wrestling power rings away from Hal Jordan until the basics of survivability (PD/ED) are covered. Again, just my very clear biases showing through. Vigil

Re: Deathstroke That an interesting version of Slade and there's a lot of stuff in there that I, honestly, wouldn't have thought to associate with him. I think your skill list makes sense upon thinking about it. My instinct would be not to give him so many PRE skills but I think they're justifiable. The characteristics, IMO, may be a bit wonky. I don't see Slade as having a BODY, INT or EGO anywhere near as high as you give him. 30 EGO is world class psionic level...right up there with Marvel Girl and Porfessor X. I owuld put Slade more around the 18-20 EGO mark. INT, I'd probably put at 20-23 and BODY in the 18-20 range. SPD may be a bit low, also (I'd go 8). I'm also surprised at how low you made his PD/ED. I'd probably put them around 18/15 and add some armor from there to put him in the 30/30 range, total. Remember, as written, 40 STUN damage will stun Slade, which seems way low. I'm dubious on several of the powers you've given Slade. I'm not sure about what you call "Enhanced Override" for Slade. What is it and where has he demonstrated it? OTOH, I think you could raise his Regeneration to aroung 3-4 BOBY/hour and be well within a standard characterization. As for the precognitive combat levels, I've never seen any indication of this and I'm a big Deathstroke fan. I'd give him straight up combat levels (maybe 5 or 6) and beef up his martial maneuvers. Finally, some extra running and leaping seem to make sense. Again, all the above is just my opinionand taken with several grains of salt is part of a healthy diet. Vigil

Re: Deathstroke Have to disagre, C--. I think Cap would stomp a mud hole in Bats but Deathstroke would give him a run for his money. Either way, though, Cap's the man. You don't get to be The Sentinel of Liberty by hanging out in some musty cave, moping. Vigil

Re: Deathstroke Have to disagree with you, Shaun. To me, ti's a matter of the focus of the character. Bat-Man, classically, isthe world's greatest detective and, more recently, a supreme tacticain and fighter. Cappy is, hands down, the world's geatest fighting machine andprobably the best leader in all of comicdom, including Superman. If there's a way to win, one on one ow with a team, Cap will find it. That's why guys like Supes and Thor readily defer to Cap. So, in the realm of specialization, Cap has it all over Bats. Then there's the physical. Bats is highly skilled and rigourously trained but so is Cap PLUS he's had his physiology boosted to the very apex of human development and, for practical purposes, he never tires. Bats just can't keep up with him. That's why I said that cap and Deathstroke is a much more even match up than Cap and Bats. Vigil

Re: Deathstroke Atom's mass is selective and self controlled. He can be subatomic and weigh 180 lbs or not, depending on what he wants. As for Slade and Bats, I thinks it been shown conclusively that everytime they meet head to head Slade comes out on top. As a pure fighter , Bats is nowhere near Slade's league. As a tactician, maybe Bat's is Slade's equal. I think Slade vs Cap is a better, more equal, straight up fight but I'd have to go with Cappy. Bats may be one of the world's best MAs but Slade is far beyond a simple MA. Vigil

Re: Deathstroke Here's aversion of Deathstroke published in Different Worlds back in Sept. 83 when the Titans were at their height. He's built with either first or second edition rules but you get the point. I think the STR is low as is the CON and I'd increase his levels and MA but I think he's a solid basic version. Vigil Plus you could check here: http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/index.html Enjoy

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places It seems that with Darkseid, the Omega Effect is a range of possible powers from Gate, Usable as an Attack (Boom Tubes) to Matter Rearrangement (Transformation) to the classic Omega effect we all and love. And it seems they're all called the same thing. almost makes sense to build them as a pool but it seems, regardless of the names, that he only has 4 or 5 powers so MP makes more sense. I'm also beginning to sense that maybe the Beams do have some sort of END Reserve with quite a slow REC rate. So, over the course of a day or hours or so thye recharge fully but Darkseid still can't juts pop them off anytime and have them be optimally effective.

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places Good to have the Cyborg thing cleared up, lol. For a minute there I thought Darkseid was relocating to wussville and had just had his punk card stamped! One thing I don't like about the summoning approach is that it seems to overcomplicate a power that shouldn't be quite so complex. It seems to me that INT and PER rolls and all the other facets of the summoned approach can be as easily handled by Mind Scan or transdimensional Clairsentience maybe with something like Shaun's "homing" advantage. As for the Supes "thousand nuclear bombs" thing I assume that whoever said that uses the same PR person that Sentry with his "million exploding suns" hyperbole does...except it's more like a million Christmas tree lights in Sentry's case. God, I hate him with a hatred that Ireserve for anyone having anything to do with The New Avengers. Back on topic, has anyone noticed the Omega Effect as having a maximum range or running out of steam or just missing, period? Vigil

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places That's my instinct, too. I just don't really lie the summon option. It answers some of the difficulties of the omega effect with INT covering tracking etc but it raises just as many and seem kinda cumbersome and maybe a bit contrived. The turn mode I like since it lends it a bit of a flavor that regular EBs don't have and it makes for some interesting role playing posssibilities as you can actually try to out manouveur the beams and run out the clock. Presuambly, a charcter with a high speed and low turn mode could keep ahead of them, which is cool. Beyond the heavily modified RKA approach, I guess the next best thing would be to build it either as a BODY Drain or a Transform. Both are plausible and both have certain advantages over my RKA approach. Vigil

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places Cyborg survived the omega effect? Then the beams must be a lot wussier than I'd imagined. It seemed to me that at bare minimum it took an individual as invulnerable as Superman to have even a hope of surviving. They seemed to almost total Doomsday and they put the kibosh on The Anti Monitor so I can't imagine that Cyborg would have a hope in hell of surviving. Maybe Darkseid just energy blasted him and said it was the omega effect. As for the power source/origin of the beams, I haven't heard anything about them having anything to do with the fire pits. My understanding is that they're a manifestation of the "x element" that Darkseid absorbs into his body. I don't know of any other character, New God or not, who uses the x element nor have I seen it depicted so I assume it's just a SFX for his powers. I like the idea of adding" has a turn mode" (-1/4) to the beams since standard energy blasts don't. They're either straight lines or (if indirect) seem to have a turn radius of zero. For those who aren't familiar with the DC Heroes RPG, I'll include the description of "Continuum Control" (cool name) which is what they call Darkseid's suite of powers. Vigil

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places Si, if guided missles and such are written up as small vehicles then I assume they use a template like the nega beams which gives them some INT and Per and so they make decisions to track their targets? I may have to order these books. The one thing I did like in the nega beams write up and which I lifted for my harvester beams was the one hex AE with planetary megascale and single, selective target. It's a neat construction and explains why it seems virtually impossible to dodge or dive for cover out of the way of these piddly little beams. In the NND portion of my write up I included a bunch of defenses which I thought made sense in comic terms: Time or Space Control, powers with "cosmic" or "primal" sfx as well as things like making a "critical" EGO roll. I think there's examples of characters doing all the above and surviving the omega beams. Plus I added another disad to the NND, "all or nothing" (-1/2) which means the RKA either scorres enough BODy to wipe the target out or it has no effect, even if the target meets the criteria for it to effect them. It's kinda a last gasp thing. Vigil

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places That's true. Given its portrayal in comics, I very much get the sense that the omega beams have a turn mode. Quite often you see speedy or manueverable characters like Supes or Flash evade them with the beams having to remanuever to keep up. I think maybe the turn mode (-1/4) limit may be quite applicable here. And back on the question of guided or heat seeking missles, has anyone seen how Champs officially write up such things as I think that would be exactly the kind of template we'd be looking at here. Vigil

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places That's great, Mr. Clinton. I think that's just the approach I'm going to take to building Kadavra's Harvester Beams. It makes perfect senss and has a lot of flexibilty. I don't have the Ultimate Vehicle sourcebook but is this how guided missles or homing devices are built? I like it! I like it a lot! Thanks for the way cool idea. In fact, i think this is worth forwarding to Stve for official canonization. Thanks again. Vigil

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places Ah, the fromage of youth, lol. Maybe "intractable" would be better? Anyway, JD, glad you replied. Since you did the 4th ed write up have you given any thought to how you'd represent the omega beams, otherwise? i'm wondering if maybe just uncontrolled, continuous would be enough since Darkseid could make a new attack roll on evry phase to target them with the SFX being that the beams just keep tracking. That could work. Vigil

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places Hey Liaden, Great to hear from you, once again. Having been involved in Champs right from the beginning way back in around 81 or so, it strikes me that fidning the simplest way to express a power isn't always simple. Plus a quibbly point. In trying to create Darkseid-like abilities and minimize redundancy I built the following power: Gate : Teleportation 15", No Relative Velocity, x128 Increased Mass, Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Ranged (+1/2), Line Of Sight (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Transdimensional (Related Group of Dimensions; From Atlantis to All Alternate Earths; +3/4), Continuous (+1), Usable As Attack (Defense is Teleport, XD Movement, "Cosmic" or "Primal" SFX Powers, Matter Control or Time or Space Control Powers; +1), Area Of Effect (58" Radius; (Reduced to 10" Radius); +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Can Be Scaled Down: 1" = 1km (+1/4) (656 Active Points); Custom Modifier (Others Only, Queen Kadavra cannot Gate anywhere outside of Atlantis; -1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) Now, does this seem like a reasonable way to represent both the distance and ex dimensional movment effects of a boom tube without two seperate powers. Notice also there are some changes. The character I'm creating, whom I'll post when she's done is called Queen Kadavra. She's an almost omnipotent Atlantean deity of death and order. She's essentially all powerful (hence the continuum control powers) but, she's also trapped in a prison of tme and space and can't leave Atlantis or really exert her might outside of her, hence her need for minions who she can send abroad to try to free her. She's very cool, IMO. And heres how I've reinterpreted the Omega Beams: Harvester Beams: Killing Attack - Ranged 20d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Selective (+1/4), No Normal Defense (+1), Does BODY (+1), MegaScale (1" = 10,000 km; +1 1/4), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1), Attacker Chooses Defense (+1/2) (1950 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase, Character May Take No Other Actions, -3/4), Custom Modifier (All or Nothing ; -1/2), Single Target Only (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Custom Modifier (All or Nothing, Harvester Beams Either Annihilate Target or Have No Effect; -1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) Again, I've kinda skewed them to fit my Infinites campaign and to fit her personality. having begun life as a nymph in the service of a primordial nature/forest deity I felt the Havester analogy fits nicely. If you do the math in the above the END cost is 195/shot so there's an automatic recovery time factor built in. Shes' come a long way from dancing around a throne! and here's her Regathering power: Regathering: Summon 2500-point annihilated beings, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Slavishly Devoted (+1), Specific Being (+1) (1625 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, Character May Take No Other Actions, -3/4), Custom Modifier: Only usable to Summon beings that she has Annihilated with Harvester Beams (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Visible (-1/4) I'm not sure I'm sold on the slavishly loyal advantage. I may eliminate that to represent the fact that for all of herower she can't force people to obey her or overcome the chaos of free will. Alternately to leave it in means that she recreates people as zombies, essentially, wwhich (deep down) she find to be quite hollow and unsatisfying as she can destroy her foes but she can't honestly make them worship her. Kinda 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Vigil

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places Thanks for the suggestions. I checked the nega beams in USPDB and, I dunno, found it maybe a bit too much of a stretch to make the beams an actual entity. Just doesn't sit right somehow. John Desmarais in his GNBORH write up used a combo of Continuous, Uncontrolled, and a new advantage which he called "Unrelenting" which gives the beams an opportunity to hit on each phase until the END runs out. Looking at it again it may be a fairly elegant solution. I agree, also, with the HIGH END cost as Darkseid never seems to use them more than once a day or so and even then they're exhausting. Maybe there should be some sort of Side Effect which reduces Damage Resistance and PD/ED? Hmmm..... Vigil

Hi All, I was working on a major villainess for our Champs campaign up her and wnated to model her powers after Darkseid's "Continuum Control" abilities. The problem is, the only version's of Darkseid I've found are the stunningly uninformative DCH version and the somewhat unsatisfying 4th ed version in GNBORH. Does anyone have a Darkseid they'd care to share or post? Any ideas on how to construct continuum control? Thanks in advance for the help. Vigil

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics Great page! It's interesting, though, how different the original costume design is from the more weel known one he wore in the SSOSV.

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics According to his origin, Comet's a "mutant" born 100, 000 years ahead of his time...which is way cooler than your standard mutant origin. As such he is, truly, the Man of Tommorrow. He has greatly enhanced intellect and physical toughness (limited invulnerability but he always got clobbered by Grodd or Blockbuster) as well as superstrength (I'd put him around STR 60) and telepathy, some telekinesis and a high EGO. Plus he has a few high tech gadgets like the "Cometeer" which is a high tech space rocket and his blaster which he never seems to use. He was another baroque Silver Age character who, I believe, appeared shortly before Jonn Jonnz. Vigil

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics The first 5 issue arc of SSOSV was absolutely classic. IMHO one of the best story premises of the 70's and, I think, Golden Age carried that torch very well. I thought it captured a good balance of classic JSA with modern day storytelling. As for costumes, the SSOSV had some classics: Captain Comet (who'da thought all those colors could work together?), Sinestro, Manhunter and Mantis. Cool stuff. Vigil