The Souljourner

I asked this question on the Hero System board and got a variety of answers, but wanted to hear a designer's opinion. Not sure if this is an appropriate question for this board, sine there's no single "right" answer. So, why did you decide not to allow characters to move after they attack? -Nate

But there's rarely a time when I would choose "go first and quite possibly get screwed" or "wait, and don't get screwed". I don't like the fact that the wise thing to do is to hold your action every single phase. If you have a high dex character (presumably with lower than average defenses, since you're relying on not getting hit rather than soaking up the damage with armor), and you know that your opponent has an area of effect attack, then you'll *always* hold your action. You'd be foolish not to. Personally, I don't think holding your action should be the no-brainer thing to do every single round of combat. It should be a special case, on the order of "I'll hold my action to shoot him when he comes out from behind cover", not "That wizard has fireballs, so I'll hold my action every round so I'll have at least a slight opportunity to avoid them". Right.... you punch a guy on 4, and he throws a car at you later on 4, you just have to take it, but if he had thrown it on 5, you would be able to do something about it. Why? -Nate

One other thing irked me during my first game of Hero (besides no attack then move, which is in a separate thread): Once you act in a phase, you can no longer abort until the next phase. This restricts high dex characters to these two options: 1.) Hold your action until everyone has gone so you can abort if you need to (which totally negates the whole "going first" benefit, since a low dex character can abort even though he hasn't gone yet). 2.) Go first (which is what high Dex is supposed to do), and then be completely helpless while everyone else in the round gets to go. And since they watched you go and do your thing, they *know* you can't abort, so they're *more* likely to throw things at you that need an abort to properly defend against. I had a high dex, high speed character (they often go together), and I got screwed on a number of occasions because I went first (yay high dex) but then got tagged by area of effect attacks from which I couldn't dive for cover. So what's up with that? You can abort even if you don't go this phase, by giving up your next segment... but if do go this phase and you have already gone, you can't give up your next segment? Why? It doesn't seem to make any sense. It seems like you always ought to be able to give up your next phase in order to abort, regardless of when you go. Thoughts? Explanations? -Nate

I think it *has* to use the speed chart, otherwise you change the way speed works dramatically. Using d12 = current phase is a nice way to prevent overplanning by the players, but still allows the same distribution of segments, same people going on the same phase, etc. You have to decide when recoveries come around... personally I'd just say "everyone gets a recovery after 12 rolls of the die". That's the kind of thing that probably shouldn't be random. -Nate

I guess I just don't like it when the rules say "you can't do X". In D&D you can do it, even though there is a penalty... or you can use tumbling to get by the penalty, or you can get a feat to get by the penalty.... But in Hero, the self procalimed "Do whatever you want" game, you can't do it at all. Feh. I say, changing stuff like CSLs, multipowers, etc should only be doable before you attack, but if you want to move after an attack, that shouldn't be a problem (maybe instituting Attacks of Opportunity wouldn't be a bad idea either). As for "it'll screw up how you work with other players and GMs". Seriously, how often do you switch GMs/groups? Even in the rare case that you do, if you're used to attack and move, your new GM will correct you the first time you try it (like what happened with me in my first game). Changing this is not like moving two at a time in checkers, that's a radical, far reaching change. It's more like saying "red goes first" instead of "black goes first" (not that I really know which is supposed to go first). Sure, it changes the game somewhat, but not in a way that isn't easily adapted to. -Nate

Like someone said.. in order to punch someone then move away, you have to be standing next to the person at the beginning of the phase, which means that they got the opportunity to hit you on their last phase (generally). I can definitely see not allowing multipower and variable power pool changes after an attack, so people with multipowers don't switch all their points into offense before they attack, and all into defense after they attack, but just moving doesn't seem like a big deal. Yeah, you can do move by, but that's a very specific manuever with very specific restrictions. I'll have to look at snap shot, since I'm not as familiar with that. And in D&D, the problem is not with high movement monks moving after they attack, it's with high movement monks moving *both* before and after their attack with spring attack. And even that isn't ridiculous, because your target can just ready an action to attack you when you get close. -Nate

I played my first game of Hero (Champions) yesterday. I really enjoyed it, but one thing irked me - after you attack, you can't move. Coming from D&D, I am used to the "half move and attack or full move" restriction, and I think it makes a lot of sense... but why oh why can't you attack then move in Hero? It seems to really restrict the player's option for tactics. In my game yesterday, they were plenty of times when I would have attacked then moved behind cover or something similar, but that option just doesn't exist. Is there a reason for this? Do you think there would be a big problem with allowing attack then move? -Nate

Here's a thought... just give him the belt that gives him Spd 12, but make it also limit him to only 1" of running. If you also wanted to do an area of effect speed drain, you could do that too. Give him missile deflection, and you're about done. As for the slow/fast thing... I think the concept is just logically flawed, and probalby should be reworked. You just can't be fast and yet look slow. -Nate

Yeah, I gotta say, I don't understand why he appears to be slow. If you could explain that part, it might help us figure out how to model the abilities. As for uprooting a medium sized (say 12" diameter) tree, realistically I'd think you would need more than 40 strength. Here's the thing... the roots hang on to the soil like nobody's business. I've watched my grandfather pulling up stumps, and even after we dug up a ton of dirt and hacked through a ton of roots, not one, but TWO bulldozers failed to pull the stump out. Using a pulley to triple the power of a single bulldozer and anchoring the bulldozer to another tree, we finally managed to do it. To be entirely realistic, it shouldn't be possible if attempted by a normal sized person. You'd thrust yourself into the ground long before the tree moved. However, to give a little heroic flavor, I'd let it be doable, but it would take a lot, and it would be directly proportional to the diameter of the tree. Let's say 5 strength per inch of diameter. That means a normal guy could pull out a 2" diameter tree. That's actually a little generous, but it's supposed to be heroic, right? -Nate

Good lord, I never thought I'd find an RPG where the majority of its players are significantly older than I am (26)! I don't remember when I picked up 4th edition. It was something like mid to late 90's. I never actually played it. My friends were (and still are) all into D&D. I'm starting my first game on the 14th of this month, with some people I met on here. I hope it'll be the first of many, because I do love this system, even if I haven't gotten to play it yet. D&D... that I started back in '89, but that's another story. -Nate

Yeah, I guess I don't see why Damage Reduction, some decent armor, and a reasonably high CON doesn't fit the bill. You don't need all this absorption and linked stuff. Straight out abilities will do you just fine. Absorption is a very powerful ability, and one that should be carefully scrutinized. You'd have to prove to me that your character actually *benefits* from getting hit by the attack you absorb, and that's definitely not the case with Superman. If he were made of pure fire, I'd say absorbing fire damage would be fine. To absorb from all physical damage.... I don't know, I can't even think of a special effect that would apply to. Maybe a high tech shield that took the kinetic force and turned it into energy powering itself.... Any way, it's not the kind of thing you should just throw around willy nilly. Supreme's example is a great one for a guy that is just a big pain in the butt to take down. He takes punishment like there's no tomorrow, but your average 12d6 EB will still get through his defenses. -Nate

With both high dex and spd, you can just take recoveries on segments when your opponent doesn't go. IDHMBIFOM, but you're talking about the effect of not getting the benefit of the recovery if you take damage (or something along those lines) right? I think the rule should be that if you take damage any time up until your next action, not just in this phase. -Nate

I just watched it (yay TiVo). It was interesting, but they continually talked about the science of martial arts, when in fact they did very little in the way of scientific experiment. Yeah, they did a lot with the special effects of showing their bones and stuff, but they didn't really analyze it at all. And holy CRAP was that ever one long advertisement for The Last Samurai. Every 8 minutes there was a 2 minute clip from The Last Samurai. I guess we know who paid for the documentary. Anyway, it was neat to see the martial arts... but it could easily have been a 1 hour show if they took out all the crap. -Nate

Thanks, guys. That gives me a lot to go on. I'll look at what I've been doing and see how it gels. Hopefully I'll be in the "too much" camp, instead of the "too little" camp. It's definitely hard to give up on powers you really like in favor of characteristics that aren't nearly as interesting. -Nate

Under the description of Grabs, it says that if successful, the attacker and defender are in the same hex... but it doesn't say which one. So is it defender's hex or attackers? (I'd assume defender's, but wanted to make sure) Thanks, -Nate

Or rather, how much is enough? I've had Champions and now Hero System 5th Edition for many years and I've made dozens of characters.... however I've never played in a game. My friends all play D&D and aren't that interested in a superhero RPG. Well, soon I'll be playing in my first game (with people outside my D&D group). So I have some questions... I get all the rules and stuff, but here's what I want to know.... how much is enough? How much Dex should your average character (brick, speedster, blaster) have? How much defense should he have (PD, ED, resistant/not)? This is the kind of thing you can't learn from the book. I'm starting with 350 points (250 +100 disad). I have some cool ideas (based around controlling time), but I need to know what levels I need certain powers at. If I have 30 dex, can I ignore armor for the most part? Is 40 END enough for a normal fight? Is 15 Body a death sentance? Help is much appreciated -Nate

That's a bizarre power. Telekinesis is definitely the closest to what he wants. The effect is to move something at a distance, and that means you should use TK. I think TK with a -1 (or perhaps even more) limitation - "only due West" would be suitable. -Nate