Catacomb

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

You know' date=' snide crap like that really isn't helping.[/quote']

 

Yeah and there was nothing snide in your earlier opening remark to me...bub.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

So, despite having been written by the same guy who wrote Wolverine's regular title of the time, and edited by the same lady who edited Wolverine's regular title of the time, and for that matter having been nothing more than a four-issue run of UNCANNY X-MEN (seeing as how it had the entire same creative staff with the possible exception of the art people!) with the FF guest-starring, it's still magically all different somehow?

 

I don't even begin to get it.

 

In-company crossovers are nothing more than normal guest-starring with different packaging on the cover so the company can sales-pitch it. But the comics themselves? It's just guest-starring. Which counts.

There is a double standard there, there has to be, otherwise X-Men/Avengers would have been about 4 panels, but disagree all you want. You're right, there doesn't have to be a balance in order to make a pre-determined number of X-over issues occur, there need be no fudging of powers because we all know that every super team and indavidual is created =, with just the perfect amount of balance to last the obligatory 4 issue release.

That's my point, the bubble. Wouldn't have been a very good FF/X-Men crossover had Wolvie just diced Reed into shish-ka-bob now would it? No, so let's Deus ex Machina since it doesn't matter in either storyline's continuity beyond the pages of this limited release title.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Frankly, I think Spidey's success over Firelord is much less contrived than Busiek's explanation of how Mjolnir works against Superman.

No Doug, you are wrong, if the writiers write something one time in an X-over bubble it's holy doctrine and need no contrivance.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Oh, btw, fun fact -- who wrote FANTASTIC FOUR vs. X-MEN (we've been getting the title wrong) limited series?

 

Hint -- the same guy who, at that time, was writing the regular UNCANNY X-MEN title.

 

Who was the *editor* for FF vs. X-MEN?

 

Hint -- the same lady who, at that time, was the editor for the UNCANNY X-MEN title (and the other X-books).

 

So, your thesis of Wolvie getting jobbed out by Marvel editorial or pro-FF writers? Not hardly, bub. The same crew what did that storyline was doing the regular Xbooks of that era. Heck, it pretty much *WAS* a four-issue UNCANNY arc with the FF guest-starring.

Where...did...I ever say pro FF? I didn't, the crossovers exist in their own little bubbles, and they always have, that's my point. There is a more liberal use of powers, and a different standard used, but without a doubt there is always a fluctuation beyond the 'norm' of most characters.

Bub...

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Note, one of the examples where Wolvie 'went down easy' was while he was in a full-on raving berserker psycho fit.(*) (FF vs. X-Men #2)

 

So it doesn't *always* work like that. Sometimes, the instances in question are merely the Power Fanboy channelling through the writer to give Wolvie a win when, reasonably speaking, there's no way he should have stayed upright. (Such as, oh, "Wolverine vs. Spider-Man")

 

 

 

 

 

(*) Did you ever wonder /why/ the Thing was KO'ing Wolvie? Hint: had something to do with Logan trying to carve Reed Richards into rubber bands. Logan's not usually up for murdering FF members when he's *calm*, and he was *literally* foaming at the mouth during this sequence.

Crossovers never count, I don't care if they are in company or out, so much crap is pulled out for them its ridiculous. Wolverine damn sure should never have been able to hang with Lobo who is basically a superman power level version of himself, but he did. Why? Special circumstances. Also by crossovers I don't mean Spidey making an appearance in a book I mean crap like X-Men/Avengers, X-Men/FF4 etc. the stuff is almost written and used in a vacuum, which is why I don't read most contrived crossovers.

Re: Mjolnir

Wow, this so had nothing to do with Supes until I posted his name...one post, that's how long it took, one post.

I win.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Wolverine *has* been KO'ed by concussive force before -- heck, the man-portable artillery that Genoshan Magistrates used to pack did the job once, at least when the mook in question fired it off at maximum power and point-blank range into Logan's face.

 

People in the Ben Grimm strength range (such as, oh, Ben Grimm) have easily KO'ed Wolvie with a simple hammer blow to the top of his skull. Ben wasn't straining overmuch either, just a simple *BOP*, and he's down.

 

So having Spidey work the speed bag on Logan's forehead? No way Logan should have just shaken that off. Granted, Spidey ain't the ever-lovin' blue-eyed Thing, but Logan should at least have been seeing *some* stars, not factory fresh and able not just to continue fighting, but execute subtle feints that somehow magically evade the #!%!@%@# Spider-Sense even.

It depends on Wolverine's state of mind. There have been times when he's gone down somewhat easy and then there are times when he's taken a shot from Apocolypse and continued on. It all has to do with how pissed off he is, kind of like how The Hulk gets stronger Wolverine literally gets tougher. My GM had a way to implement the power too that was pretty cool, but its not a new thing. Wolvie has always been like that.

Re: Mjolnir

How long before this degrades into Supes vs. Thor?

Re: What Are You Listening To Right Now?

My students whine about the test they are taking today.

Re: The things you pick up from Cartoon Network

I gotta agree with Samurai Jack, not only the best cartoon of the last 10 years or so, but the best show as well IMO. Amazing cinematic style, story, drama, and comedy.

Also the fact that The Scottsman is on it doesn't hurt either.

Re: A Thread for Random Musings

I've been possessed to sit out my entire 40k chaos army the last few days; all 28 thousand points, and have noticed that my cat > Abaddon and all his mighty legions.

Re: What Are You Listening To Right Now?

NSFW but 50 cents songs reworked with Queen's music. I thought I would hate it and yet...somehow I keep going back and listening.

Again uncut so it is not verbally nice.http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=14157

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

Sunday night was probably the best quote ever but it wasn't in a gaming situation.

We were out getting snacks and we stopped by Wendy's so one of the players(The Real Vector) could grab a burger and it went like this.

TRV: Yeah I'll take the number 2 no onions no mayo.

Wendy's employee: No onions.

TRV: Yeah and no mayo.

*On the screen flashes MAYO ONLY*

Wndy's emplyee: That will be 5.42

TRV: May God have mercy on you if there's mayo on my burger...

I'm laughing as I write this.

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

Nukes thread from orbit.

Then gets in one last jab.

Superman is a terrible super-hero.

No consistancy, can do anything, beat anyone, and has a cardboard two dimensional personality. A terrible name on top of this and there you go.

The only reason Superman even has a fan base is because he is the first real 'super' but that does not make the base concept that IS Superman any less lame.

A lot of people think it, I'm just throwing it out there. I despise Superman and most of DC because its just bland. Like Star Trek when compared to Babylon 5...bland.

*HOW MANY FAN BOYS WILL NOW GET THEIR DANDER UP*

Re: Musings on Random Musings

I'll report you in a minute.

I had to find something to do tonight my server in World of Warcraft is down...

Re: Longest Running Thread EVER

This thread displays posting gluttonay and should be burned at the stake...

REPORTED!!!

Re: Musings on Random Musings

This thread is too long and an insult to shorter threads...

REPORTED!!!

Re: What was you most powerful Attack vs. Supervillian???

I've never hit very hard but I've had some incredibly effective attacks. One in particular comes to mind.

Our GM had us fighting a magic based villian sorcerous. She was not an easy fight by any stretch and had pushed our whole team to the limit in our previous encounter and I wanted to end it fast. So in a great KoDT moment I said "I do an aimed shot for he neck!" while she was going on her typical "Me villian me superior" spiel.

The GM decided to let me do it but on one condition. When the numbers came down the pipe it was going to take a 3 to hit the specified target, and a miss would be very bad for me.

I agreed and threw my ax(Catacomb is an undead wolverine type with an ax. I say he's cool but going even one session without the 'Spawn' analogy is tough even though my character hasbeen around since MSH back in the late 80s...damn Macfarlane) which is a 4 1/2 die AP killing attack, rolled the dice and it came up 3. Not only was my attack a success but my damage roll was amazing as well, and since my ax had been established as 'magic' her defenses were lessened against me.

Off with her head. Good times.

Hardest shot I've ever seen was done by the Juggernaught against our resident brick, Vector. He has the overconfidence flaw and its total so he has a bad habit of giving other bricks the first shot against him. It was a Juggernaught charge... What was more amazing than the damage was that Vector walked away from it. I don't remember what it was exactly I just know I rolled a full brick of dice(Reformatted and lost alot of my character builds.).

Pretty damn cool.

Re: Yet Another Quick Question

This would make the second time I have done this...

 

Someone with access to the Hero System Bestiary. Can you look up the total point cost of a Sheep. I'm doing the write-up for a Summon spell and need to know how much it will cost.

What are you? Scottish?

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

Photographic evidence?

Never liked that pic because in all fairness Superman should be able to lift Mjolnir...that's another thread though, and we've discussed it(About a year ago, can't find it though.).

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

So obviously Thor doesn't have hardened defenses.

I'm actually breaking out the comics today to see if his lack of hardened defenses is only against objects like bullets and swords or if it extends to energy as well.

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

Ah, I knew this would happen.

 

Both characters have wildly varied in power levels. Sometimes, bullets hurt Thor. Sometimes he survives hydrogen bombs without a scratch.

I would like to point something out about this. Regular bullets have never 'hurt' him as I stated earlier. It has to be ramped up, some sort of armor piercing job to do the trick and most of the time he uses Mjolnir to block bullets as a reflection power to keep them from harming anyone else. I don't know exactly how the bomb thing would work either but again to split hairs its usually the shrapnel that gets Thor, not the concussive force or explosion. He can survive immense heat and cold (Not the sun like Superman) and has walked away from bombs in the past yes. That having been said though he seems to have a weakness to the AP type attacks, something that penetrates and makes him bleed so again its pretty consistant on that level.

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

You do realize that he has also been MASSIVELY depowered since Crisis and that the "new power a week" Superman and juggling planets is a thing of the past right? Otherwise' date=' wouldn't Thor be just as "ridiculously overpowered" by you definition?[/quote']

 

Believe it or not Thor has been consistantly the same level of power from the get go. He's rarely used anything 'new' and he can actually be hurt by many things that Superman can't(High velocity armor piercing slugs are an example...Thor's been shot), he needs to breathe, has never juggled a planet to my knowledge, and has been beaten down without the help of a convoluted storyline.

 

Yes I am also aware that Superman has been powered down but since day one he has had at the very least an aversion to magic and that, along with kryptonite are two of the things that have stayed consistant.

 

 

Now Thor also has 'levels' of power but again these never change regardless of the writer. He has "Thor knows he can take you so he's playing with kid gloves." which Superman also has. Then he has the "I say thee nay" level of power which you see quite often where he rathcets up the fight which Superman also has to a degree(But its wildly inconsistant.), and finally Thor has a level of power that he does have that is rarely tapped but it has been used on about five occasions.

 

The "I'm passed I say thee nay and have reached the, Ultron we would have words with thee its time to open a can of grade-a Asgardian whoopass." which is again consistant in its use. Its where Thor uses all of his power and has no fear for his opponents safety whatsoever, in fact, I would say he's trying to corpsify said opponent. On top of that you have two items which again have been through the years part of the storyline but Thor only uses them when he's hit that last stage. The gauntlets and the belt. Thanos got to see them, so did the Destroyer, and Surtur as well as the Celestials, and Mephisto got a taste as well. Again though the power levels are very consistant, almost gears in a Thor storyline and the writers seem to stick to the formula as far as his powers go, but Superman...mother of all I hold holy. He can go from being on an even footing with Lobo to utterly wiping him out in three panels in a span of less than ten ISSUES and there are no gears there, no explaination, no reasoning behind the souped up powers...maybe the yellow sun was just closer that day . Superman's powers just seem to fit the situation while Thor's powers have been pretty much the same since we first saw him.

 

If I'm wrong point that out but I totally disagree with the Thor is way overpowered comment just because of who's beat him(Hawkeye and gas arrows...'nuff said.) while Superman's powers just seem to fit whatever issue he's in.

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

I think you missed my point though...Diana by her origin is pretty much as mystical a being as you can get' date=' and her fists don't do any more damage to Supes than to say, Captain Marvel. Yet, we have this badly applied "Vulnerability to Magic" thing. So I'm supposed to believe that being a vampire is somehow more magical than gaining sentience after the queen of the amazons breathes on a lump of clay?[/quote']

 

Thor's own attacks via fist would not count as magical damage to Superman either even though he is a god. Mjolnir, Dr Fate's blade, The Black Knight's sword all would IMO because the weapons themselves are mystical weapons meant to do mystical damage.

 

Superman DOES have a vulnerability to magic. Some writers have made this an actual detriment, some have made it a quirk. Unfortunately Superman is the single most inconsistantly written hero in all of comics so its hard to find any kind of solid ground to stand on when talking about this, but my view has always been that Supes originally had the magical weakness way back when he was juggling planets and it WAS a weakness back then so just leave it that way. The guy is ridiculously overpowered as it is so at least some writers try and make him beatable without having to break out some new planet-buster each issue.

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

So, it's your belief that if only the writers would get out of the way Thor and Supes could really throw down?

 

Wow where did you come up with that? Kind of a stretch eh? No I was making the point that the companies are going to do what is in their best interest. Thor the property of Marvel will not beat Superman the property of DC because Thor losing is not a black-eye to Marvel while Superman losing would be to DC which is why there will be ground rules set forth before the two companies ever collaborate. That's a major reason why JLA/Avengers was almost 8 years in the making. No one wanted to see their precious characters lose and in turn lose face for their company.

I would like to see a writer who has had experience with both characters(They're out there.) do something involving the two of them. This is easily the 'hottest' and most contested little piece of comic-geekdom that goes way beyond the HERO boards.

Of course that ill never happen so Superman will always beat Thor in any crossover written because of the particular character's status within the company.