gojira

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product

Generally speaking I think everyone is converging around the idea of a single book that shows people how to play. It could have full rules or not, but it's something easily digestible, especially by new comers, but also by old timers as well. I assume you'll have to reduce the rule set to do that, something like GURPS Light, but that's a detail for the writer/editor to work out.

(And yes, I don't mean to literally title the book Fantasy Hero Abridged. That was just a moniker I used to get a point across.)

Just as an example, here's a post today by Pan Piper in the "Hero in Two Pages" thread, saying his players were freaking out over hero until they saw the "Two Pages" document. Something like the Two Page document in any new fantasy Hero product would be a big boon to everyone.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/77944-Hero-In-Two-Pages-Complete?p=2430765#post2430765

I would like to point them to a single book that is the "player's guide" to playing in a Fantasy Hero style game which they could buy. Said book could be either physical or PDF that doesn't matter.

Yes, exactly. Again I don't see how you don't condense the rules even more than Champions Complete to get a "player's guide," but again that's for other folks to worry about. Bluesguy's concept is right on the money.

 

• Chapter 5 - Instead of the background material on how to create a world, provide a place. A small town and surrounding area. Provide enough information so that a GM could use it as a starting point for any campaign they want to run. Condense it down to 10 to 20 pages. Include a GM and player map of the area.
  
• Chapter 6 - I am torn about this chapter because it has a lot of useful information. I think having a set of steps on how to create a character would be helpful. Example character 'archetypes' would also be very important.
  
• Must have a small set of standard fantasy opponents - guards, bandits, thieves, assassins, orcs/goblins, ogres, giants, giant snake/spider, etc.
  

I like these ideas *a lot*. Again, it's spot on. This is one reason why I say I don't like arbitrary page counts and other bean counting before a product is designed. A "small town and surrounding area" will almost certainly require a map. That mean new illustrations. Surely that can be worked into the budget? BTW, I love the cover on Champions Complete. Please don't change the high quality cover!

Re: Rules You Didn't Know Until Champions Complete

Would that motivate a player to take this action? If not, why should it motivate anyone else? It happens too universally to be a character or two valuing "cool" over "effective", especially when its use increases in the toughest fights.

 

It's starting to sound to me like a genre convention, rather than a universal or absolute rule.

I've been thinking about this a bit since the Fantasy Hero Complete thread was posted. I wonder if perhaps the downfall of generic universal systems is that they are generic and universal. These types of systems (Hero, GURPS) always seem to produce a muddle for at least a few genres. And they also seem to produce too much complexity as they try to have a rule for every situation, for every genre.

I think you have to be careful how good you make improvised weapons, otherwise you'll have everyone fighting with chairs and tables and tavern mugs instead of swords and knives and guns. And a superheroic list of improvised weapons ought to be different than one designed for tavern brawls in a swords and sorcery campaign. Those two genres don't overlap with regards to special effect, or desired outcome or bonuses. They're two different things entirely, with very little overlap wrt improvised weapons.

So I'd just make a "bricks tricks" table and say every one has access to it. Make the objects large enough so that only folks with super-strength are incented to use it. I think the base system should have one simple rule for improvised weapons (which it does, I believe) but that shouldn't stop you from coming up with more ideas for a particular game. However, it should stop you from thinking that *all* genres should be using the exact same table of improvised weapons.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product

If they DO have the rules with the system' date=' then include enough stuff that a GM could pick it up from the shelf. Get 4 -6 players together and start playing with a minimum of fuss. I know we all love to make stuff, but having to build each stinking spell, monster etc is one reason that many GM's will refuse to run Fantasy Hero. There really needs to be enough there to be playable without much GM work. That's why I mentioned a Default Campaign, spells, Classes, Races, Monsters etc.[/quote']

 

I do agree with this. Publish a game, not a rulebook or "project." (A project is like a car you buy that the previous owner tore apart to "fix" it. You pay money for it, then you have to do a lot of work before you can enjoy it.)

 

I think I could get behind Fantasy Hero Abridged. Publish fewer rules, a reduced set designed to work with a fantasy game. Then devote the rest of the book to setting, pre-builds (including spells), NPCs/monsters, and maybe a map or two.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product

I'd be less worried about page count and more worried about keeping the price down to where it might be an impulse buy. That probably means black and white softcover' date=' but I also want to stress the importance of art and layout in the book.[/quote']

 

I completely agree! I just seized on page count as the single most arbitrary "shewt yerself in the foot" metric that was presented. Nice artwork and spiffy layouts should be used if at all possible.

 

I honestly don't see why Kickstarter can't be used to help defray these costs. Unless Kickstarter was going to be used anyway, then I can see the focus on getting the minimum needed for a book first. But I was hoping that HG was going to pay for the base costs like Champions Complete, and Kickstarter could be used to add "extras" to the book, like artwork, nicer layout, more writing for background stuff, etc.

Re: Status of Narosia

A recent update:

Narosia is still underway!

 

Update #10 · Dec. 10, 2012 · 1 comment

 

 

Hey all! Sorry it's been so long since we had a new update. Various minor obstacles have been thwarted, and we're still knee-deep in the rewrite of the Hero basic rules that will be included in the book to make it the all-in-one standalone product we promised. We're going as quickly as we can, and as soon as we have actual news and completion dates we can stand behind we'll post them. This is going to be one very cool book, and we can't wait to start sharing it with you! dw

 

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product

Actually' date=' I meant that it would have no *new* interior artwork, not that it would have no interior artwork.[/quote']

 

Ah, good. I consider this to be the minimum, but in this case the minimum is probably OK. Hero Games seems to have built up quite a bit of art over the years.

 

And the page count is all about affordable print costs, and is thus far from arbitrary.

 

I knew that. However, I still feel any target page count is penny wise and pound foolish. It's all about the product, and I'm concerned that some mediocre products from Hero are shrinking its customer base. It'd be better to run a Kickstarter to pay for those extra 60 pages and make a better product than it would be to allow subpar product chase away more potential customers.

 

If you can make a *great* product in 240 pages, fine. But the emphasis needs to be on making a *great* product, and then figuring out how to finance it second.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product

I started a thread on RPG.net about "what fantasy genres do you like," if anyone want to see some additional opinions.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?669706-What-fantasy-genres-interest-you-the-most&p=16271410

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product

Some thoughts:

1) Overall I want to say I like Champions Complete. I'd give it 4 out of 5 stars at least, and kudos to everyone who worked on the project.

2) Nevertheless, I can't feel that a dry list of rules is going to work for a fantasy product. Fantasy gamers (and fantasy readers) are used to much higher production values.

3) Narosia was a cool concept and barely made its Kickstarter. This makes me nervous about fantasy and Hero overall.

4) I don't like the idea of no artwork, and trying to cram a book into an arbitrary page count. 300+ pages if you need too, but with art work and nice formatting. Reducing the rules is fine.

5) I also prefer to get a game world with my rules. Champions Complete was good, but I could have used about 60 more pages of game world.

6) The idea that (new) gamers won't buy Hero products is bullpucky. Monster Hunter International provides at least anecdotal evidence showing that idea is false.

7) Hero's problems are all in the advertising/marketing. It's getting the word out beyond the 200 odd folks that visit this website.

So what to do? I think you have to move beyond "Let's publish more rules" and come up with a cool product idea that people are enthusiastic to buy. Then stick your rules in that.

I don't think I'd purchase either product, personally. I have enough rules now where I could just "wing it" with any fantasy Hero game I'd care to run. I might be interested in a product that had "legs" (or mind-share, or popularity, or whatever it is that makes folks play it). But absent that, I'm sorry but I can't see a purchase.

(I hope this didn't come across as overly critical. I'm trying to provide constructive feedback. Unfortunately I see a new fantasy Hero product as very tough call right now.)

Re: In Progress From Blackwyrm Games: Mythic America

Will we be getting a Bronco Bama too?

Re: Duplication Hijinks

Overall, I like it. It sounds like a good concept.

Duplication is one of those things that are pretty abuseable. As long as you and your GM are OK with it, what you have now seems fine. Duplication + your Immortality advantage sounds fine to simulate not having a base duplicate, as long as all duplicates have it and pay for it. Six hours to create a duplicate sounds like a reasonable restriction to me. A little bit of growth and shrinking adds a bit of "oomph" and flexibility to the character.

I guess the only thing that has me a wee bit concerned is the six hour thing. You'll obviously want to start play with several characters in play. As long as the GM is cool with your ability to juggle several characters at once, then this won't be a problem however. It strictly a concern about playability and time. Don't forget that everyone else at the table needs some time in the spotlight too!

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

in India the woman who was gang-raped on a bus reported it to the police...and was raped by the investigator.

You might be thinking of a case in Tunisia were a women was assaulted by police and then charged.

The woman from India has "taken a turn for the worse." I don't really advise reading about it anymore; what details they are now releasing are a good deal more horrific than just rape and beating. Torture, reckless disregard for another's life, malice aforethought (they were armed), and conspiracy to commit all of the above. Even if she survives, they should be liable for a capital crime if even half of the allegations are true. It's no longer second degree attempted murder, but qualifies for first degree easily.

It's really quite upsetting, and I'd be careful with the news if you're easily affect by this sort of gruesome crime.

Just give me a weapon and an airtight alibi...

Yeah, I'd don't think I'd care about an alibi if I was in the same room with one of these cretins.

Re: When is it a Limitation?

Right, that came out a bit awkward. It should have been "how the character looks and acts, and how it plays in combat." Needed a coma in there at least.

Re: Military baseb character with an eyepatch

Yes, I think Champions Complete has something very similar, a VPP for skills that have been "absorbed" by a character.

I would personally however just buy as much Combat Skill Levels as the campaign allowed, and then say "he mimics the move" as I shift levels around. Way easier.

If "Combat Skill Levels" don't work, then maybe Overall Skill Levels, to let him mimic anything.

Re: When is it a Limitation?

Corollary: the best way to make a character is to figure out how they work first. Have a strong vision in your head how the character should look, act and play in combat. Then build the character using the rules.

If you flip through the rule book and think "Hmm, there's a limitation, I should use that" you're probably going about it backwards.

In general, I try to put as few limitation on superheroes as possible. You don't want a bunch of limitations cramping their style. Only in special circumstances, usually to create a character concept, do I use limitations. I wouldn't apply a Concentration limitation to Heat Vision or a Gestures limitation to Mental powers myself, it wouldn't fit with my concept of how those powers worked.

Re: Where are the most recent Champions write-ups?

Ooooooooohhhhhhh.

Re: Teleport In Giant Robot?

"Summon" is the first thing I thought of reading your description. It's like Billy Batson who transforms into Captain Marvel, but instead of transforming the superhero is summoned and the little boy stays around.

Mind Link + Teleport w/ Megascale works too.

Re: Rules question: HTH Limitation

Wait, DCs or AP?

Note that I'm responding partially to psyber's post here that asked what Advantages do you not count against DCs. "All of them" would be my answer. DCs are just DCs, total dice, that's it. Well, Strength + Hand Attacks + DCs obviously count. And Blast and RKA and HKA, but those are all powers or characteristics, not Advantages. I can't think of anything else off hand.

I'd assume that DCs are only affected by dice. 12 dice means 12 DCs.

AP is what advantages you toss on top of the 12 dice. 12 DCs with a +1/4 Advantage is 75 Active Points. You can't go higher than that without dropping some base DCs in a 12DC/75AP game.

If you don't count Reduced Endurance or Charges against Active Points, fine I can see that. But no one should count Reduced Endurance against DCs, that's nutty.

Re: Retreat & stagger: Abort action options

If I was running a campaign such as this I would use "melee" range as a guideline and therefore allow 2m (6 1/2 ft) of "movement" around an area for free as part of combat without requiring an action.

This is also a neat idea. I'd go for 2m or a half move, whichever is less.

(retreating gives you +1 DCV at the cost of +1 OCV, advancing does the opposite)

For this I'd require a player to use levels. It's possible to retreat while thinking "attack" or advance cautiously, on guard.

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

I also need to archive this here: Boobs Don't Work That Way. NSFW due to, well, boobs.

EDIT: also, Escher Girls:

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

The Hawkeye Initiative: "How to fix every Strong Female Character pose in superhero comics: replace the character with Hawkeye doing the same thing."

NSFW due to rather amazing amounts of cheesecake, plus Hawkeye doing the same thing (which can get pretty mind-bending, actually).

Example:

EDIT: found a better, and smaller, example.

Re: Where are the most recent Champions write-ups?

cause Nighthawk would not licence his image

Does Nighthawk have some sort of fourth-wall breaking legal powers now?

Re: Where are the most recent Champions write-ups?

They are all also in Champions Complete starting on page 191.

Edit: I have to take that back a little. I don't see Nightduck there. Kinetik appears to take his place. I guess this is the current Champions line-up, sans duck boy.

Re: Retreat & stagger: Abort action options

I just happened to re-read The Valdorian Age to look for something. It has "Fighting Tricks" that you can use to simulate some things that sound like they might be useful to you. Fighting Tricks involves a Power Skill for your fighting style, and then various maneuvers bought as Powers with lots of limitations on them (almost always a including RSR Fighting Tricks).

Included was a Force Back power, built as Running, Usable As Attack, to make an opponent move, and Teleport for you to move with them. The point cost was pretty reasonable, in-line with other martial maneuvers. I wonder if any of these ideas ever made it into the Advanced Player's Guides. The general tone of The Valdorian Age fighting was very swashbuckling, it might be very useful for situations like these.

Also after thinking about it a bit: I wouldn't be opposed to allowing an optional Half Move with Dodge. It doesn't seem overpowered and could often be very much in character. Certainly not any worse than allowing movement after attacking, which some folks have house-ruled on their own. It would make movement very powerful, however, as anyone with a good half move could step out of an opponent's ability to follow, so allowing longer moves (maybe again with a special maneuver) to allow an attacker to follow seems like a requirement.

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

"Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" or SMAC for short. I played the heck out of that game. Not only is it "gender balanced" it's also a fantastic game, period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri

Re: "Neat" Pictures

Here's another, which seems much safer: