Constantine

Re: To agree or disagree with Steve's answer

Having once played a PC with nothing but drains, who was already underpowered compared to the rest of the group, I can assure you that if each drain I did recovered individually, the character would've quickly become unplayable.

I think that having each drain recover seperately is silly, not to mention a book keeping nightmare....

Re: A Thread for Random Musings

On the up side I now have 1500 points of rep.

 

HUZZAH !

Wow, 7K, big congrats.

Furbie...

Re: Universal Driver?

Oh good lord, trust the GM: if your whole concept is you can drive anything, you are not going to find anything you can't drive. Any other way would be crap GMing, and we don't do that.

 

Sean

Maybe you don't, but I've known a few....

Re: Universal Driver?

Even 9 points is too much. For the amount of use you get out of this in a normal campaign, 5 points, tops....

Re: Longest Running Thread EVER

Thanks Anamoly. I was falling asleep over here. Those got the old blood racing...

Re: Equipment Pools?

I had quit buying WoD stuff at this point' date=' but I could swear that the summoning of the Nuclear Elemental by the Technocracy was what finished Ravnos off. I remember the V:tM players being up in arms that the Mages dropped a Antedeluvian.[/quote']

 

I believe that the nuclear detonation severly hurt Ravnos, and the Cathayans he was fighting were killed and/or escaped. At this point, the Cathayan that was keeping the cloud cover in place let it go, because she didn't have to worry about her comrades, and the orbital sats that were reflecting pure sunlight got through and fried him.

Re: Equipment Pools?

"If anyone has played World of Darkness: The Masquerade, they know vampires are incredibly powerful and limitless in potential."

 

Yet again...I hate to be contrary but I do Play WoD quite often. In WoD a Third Generation Vampire...that's one of Cain's grandchildren all of whom are supposed to be destroyed, can max out at a Strength of 10. As listed in the book a Strength of 10 can rip open a steel drum or lift about 1500 pounds which roughly equates to a Champions STR of 24-25. While this would be a lot in a Fantasy game IMO it would not burn up anything like 200 points for stats.

 

I agree with several other posters that it's your game so you can do what you want but I'd like to see one or two of these characters to see how they're built. I can understand building armies of Followers costing lots of points but sheesh!

True, that's a 10 strength, now add ten dots of potence to that. In fact, take their normal human max speed, and add 10 levels of celerity, 10 levels of fortitude, and all the tricks that elders seem to have, not to mention the presence, ego, and intelligence beings from before/during the beginning of history are likely to have, and you are talking 200 points of stats, easy. Remember, one of the 3rd generation elders (Ravnos) is seen taking a nuclear blast and surviving in official WOD history!!! 3rd generation vampires should never have character sheets, they are walking plot devices, and can do whatever the gamemaster needs them to do...

Re: Sunspot clone - OIHID - Instant Change

I'm stuck on something that should be really basic. I'm building a character similar to Sunspot. Until he activates his powers he is just an above average joe. Activate the powers, he's much stronger, can fly, and do energy blasts.

 

The site I got the initial build on was set for 4th edition and had the 5 pt Instant Change option. In this case, is it just a side effect of his powers and call it good? And since it is instant, and he does NOT have a secret ID, is OIHID really worth anything?

I think so, yes, because you won't always be in your hero form, and some baddy will take advantage of that. There will also be special circumstances where you may not be able to turn your powers on or off. I remember on campaign where I had OIHID power armor. We were fighting a demigod. The gm bought in the guys powerpool instant change, usable against others, with a linked instant change suppress. My character was hosed. But, dems da breaks, I took the limitation.

Re: Trying to make an attack that forces dex roll

So how about if I clarify what the power is supposed to be:

 

A canister with be thrown at and hopefully open on a hex. When the canister opens hundreds of tiny "marbles" which are equiped with magnets, spill out spreading across the floor. The magnets inside the balls are just strong enough to attract each other, but not strong enough to allow them to stack, or clump, together. This causes a blanket effect on the floor with a diameter of 4". The magnets do not hold a charge for long on their own ( away from their power supply) and so over 20 minutes lose their charge and disperse making movement easier once again. They can be retrieved and recharged fairly easily after battle.

 

 

Now for my opinion:

 

I think that the Dex roll sounds appropriate, but I don't know how to modify it. I'm still learning balance in this system.

 

I don't like to idea of reducing a type of movement, the AOE is only 4" anyway. I suppose that once you enter the area it could take X" to manuever through it, but in this case I think a check per hex (easier), or one check for the whole area (harder) sounds better. I.E. If you can manage to get through it, great! If not you're on the ground.

You are gonna need a buttload of marbles to cover a 4" area of effect. Think about how big that is. That is a rough circle approximately 9 meters in radius. That is 254 sq. meters!!! Dude, that is a lot of freaking marbles!!!

Re: Mind swapping

Oh, the jumpers are nasty. They are actually a group. Basically, there's one Ace with the power to make jumpers, though he can't jump himself. They basically started their own nasty gang that operated through books 7-10 I think.

 

I agree with not liking Transform for this ability, but you can use it. It's still clunky, but not as clunky as using Mind Control. I've written it up as Transform target's mind into self with a Side Effect that the character's mind becomes the target's. The reverse is triggerd by the target making an EGO vs EGO contest with the attacker (if the target succeeds with the initial roll, the switch never takes place, after which the attacker doesn't make any more rolls, but the target continues to make rules as if trying to break out of a Mental Power until he succeeds). Mental Defense adds to the target's EGO Roll.

 

Optionally, you can create a new Mental Power called Mind Switch. Base it off of Mind Control and simply say that the target number depends on how willing the target is to make the switch (default is EGO+30).

This is another instance of not being able to faithfully reproduce a power due to game balance. There was no way back in the books. Even Dr. Tachyon couldn't help himself after getting jumped. The only way back was to have someone jump you back into yourself, and the jumpers weren't normally inclined to do that, unless you gave them something they wanted...

Re: Mind swapping

No' date=' that came later. I've not read the book he (they?) appeared in, but I heard about it.[/quote']

 

There were characters in Wild Cards who could do exactly what you are saying. I think they actually started cropping up fairly early in the series, maybe book 4, I don't think the whole jumper conspiracy was taken care of till around book 6, and they still didn't get them all....

Re: Mind swapping

I know that Transform has become the catch-all for any power that poses a challenge' date=' but I was hoping to see a mental power built using Mental Powers -- the ones in the book (H5R).[/quote']

 

God, the Jumpers. I don't think you can do it with mental powers. I mean, you could build a continous, oend, persistant mind control, with a side of effect of a similiar mind control on your body, but that has a lot of issues that would need to be hand waved....

 

I think you have to do a transform...

Re: Playing Head games

I think that it really depends on the genre you are playing as to how you would build this kind of power. Obviously, the genre Nexus is playing in requires a power construct, so why don't we provide one. I definitely think the power you want, for the short term mind changes is mind control, with a whole bunch of limitations. Incantations (not really an incantation, but you are talking to them for the entire length of the power) and extra time at least. Then, depending on the exact process you are looking for, maybe requires a skill roll (either Psychology or persuasion, perhaps), concentration (you really have to pay attention to your target). I'm sure there are others I'm overlooking, I don't have a book here at work. I might throw in a small cumulative mental transformation linked to the mind control, so that everytime you use the short term mind control on someone, they begin to come around in the long-term to the way of thinking that you would like.

Re: Aberrant Hero!

Interestingly though' date=' the anecdotal evidence I've seen from Aberrant boards suggests that the in-game impact of taint is virtually negligible. Temporary taint is quite tough to earn, so the only real issues are permanent taint from selected tainted powers, having a bigger M-R Node (the Superhero Gland) or having high levels of Quantum.[/quote']

 

That is strange. I never actually got to play the game, unfortunately. The game I was planning on co-GMing never really got off the ground, but we were planning on making taint a big thing, and we weren't gonna tell the pc's about it to start. We were gonna start early in the history, before they really knew what taint was, so the PC's could experience some of the cool stuff in the timeline first hand. We were going to encourage them to push their powers, and never really give them any indication that bad things might happen until one of them actually gained some taint. What can I say, I'm a bastich....

Re: Aberrant Hero!

I never liked Taint all that much; it was the Angst Characteristic White Wolf threw into everything. However, you could simulate it in Hero as follows:

 

Every Critical Success involving your powers cancels one point of Temporary Taint.

 

Every Critical Failure involving your powers adds one point of Temporary Taint.

 

You can at any time push any power; every 10 active points of Push costs 10 END and adds 1 point of Temporary Taint.

 

You can at any time convert 5 points of Temporary Taint into 1 point of Physical or Psych disadvantages, including Distinctive Features. You can also add these points to existing Phys and Psych limits. Quirk level disads are permitted.

 

If you do not convert the taint yourself, the GM may choose to force the conversion any time you roll a critical failure, and may arrange the taint disads as he chooses.

 

Every game session in which you make no critical failures and do not push your powers removes one point of temporary taint.

You are right, it was very white-wolf angsty, but I can't imagine Aberrent without Taint. It was such a driving force, seperating the Novas from the common man. Its one of the themes of Aberrent.

But I like your take on it. Now what about Quantum and Node? Or should those simply be a function of End and total points?

Oh, sorry Nexus, am I taking over your thread?

Re: Aberrant Hero!

Something to note: the characters converted over from Aberrent make no mention of taint, which is, I think, a key element of that game.

I must admit, Nexus, that I'm curious as to how you intend to handle that issue, if you are thinking of running an Aberrant Hero game...

Re: Aberrant Hero!

How do you do character conversion between the two Universes? One thing I remember about Aberrant was the huge jump between levels to make things simpler:

 

1 pip of Strength - Lift 50 lbs.

2 pips of Strength - Lift 250 lbs.

3 pips of Strength - Lift 1 ton

(or something like that)

 

There was no gradual increase for any skill or characteristic.

You are thinking of superstrength, not strength. But, yeah, superstrengh, especially with the lifter specialization, could get ridiculous in a hurry. However, you really couldn't dish out much more damage...

Re: Aberrant Hero!

Have read most of the Aberrant supplements, but never played, I don't think Aberrant characters started off much more or less powerful then the average hero for champions. I'd say probably around 250. I think I could build comparable characters to the Aberrant character I created in Hero for about that many points. The ceiling, however, is very high, with some of the higher end heroes and villians being probably around 1000 points. Some of the most powerful Novas have literally world altering powers...

Re: Sharing END

...In any case, using the +1/4 Advantage is the only mechanics that does what Bloodstone is looking for. If you buy extra END, it would only recover when you recover, not when your twin does, and that's a problem. You'd have to buy your twin's REC as well, and with a much lower Lim of Only Recovers When Twin Recovers (most likely a -1/2; it would be a -1/4, but you don't get the REC when the twin uses a Phase to take a Recovery unless you do as well).

 

No matter what you do, this is gonna be expensive. Might as well go with the only mechanic that works. In the long run it'll probably be cheaper.

This is not true. If I buy them both end that they only get when touching the other, there is not one thing in the rules that says I have to buy an advantage on one of their powers. If I then put the limitation, "using this end causes the other twins end to go down as well", that doesn't require me putting an advantage on all the powers either. Really, how many times do you want someone to pay for the same thing, Raven?

Re: Inspirational Reading

I also don't think anyone has mentioned the Watchman or, what was it called, V for Vendetta? Two excellent graphic novels, both, I believe, by Alan Moore...

Re: Inspirational Reading

Absolutely: Add 100 Bullets to the above list... then for realy Dark CHAMPIONS (gritty, but with superstuff)... the top of these are Sleeper and DC's Bloodhound. Both incredibly hardboiled and/or noir. DC's new Manhunter is also pretty good. In fact, these are the kind of comics I read, now. No more Bats and Supes and JLA... no more Avengers (since the awful destruction of them)... I'm looking at the stack of comics that just have ready to file away... and even the really Supers level stuff is dark. Supreme Power and Wanted... Planetary..

 

Check out Steve Gerber's Hard Time... for a crime comic with a real twist.

 

Ooh... Gotham Central... cops in a supers world. Deadshot... exploration of a supervillain done REALLY well by new writer Gage.

 

Bendis' Powers... again, cops in a supersworld. Truly the epitome of Dark Champions, IMO. (Anything without supers, I consider Danger International... 'cause I'm an old fogey!)

 

How about Garth Ennis' 303? A military conspiracy comic from Avatar?

 

Lots of good Dark Champions stuff out there... most of it a far cry for the god-awful '80s an '90s Punisher stuff.

To me, Sleeper is the epitome of what Dark Champions is all about. Its also one of the best comics I've read, ever... A good deal of the other stuff being mentioned on this thread seems more thriller, or hard boiled detective to me. Also, a classic, the Punisher. The writing comes and goes, but this guy is a normal in a superhero world, taking the fight to anyone and everyone he deams a threat. Cloak and Dagger is another good one. Or, at least, it used to be. When I was younger, this comic always seemed darker then the others, dealing with themes of prostitution, drug abuse, runaways, etc. And lets not forget Powers, police dealing with supercriminals and Top Ten, superhero cops.... There was also a book I read that has always stuck with me, that really isn't very champions-ey, but very dark. I hesitate to recommend it because I read it so long ago, but it was called A Death of Honor. Involved the nifty idea of in the near future, the cops becoming so overworked that you had the right to investigate any crime you were accused of, and given access to some police powers!!!

Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive

All the female characters I've played have been attractive, cute, or pretty. I've never played an ugly women. Probably because I picture my characters in my head, I like picturing attractive women. My men tend to be handsome, but I will play ugly characters if appropriate. I've played Thing-like characters who weren't very attractive, for instance, or sentient pools of goo.

In vampire, I'll play nosferatu, if the mood strikes. Vampire is a darker game, and the people don't all have to be beautiful, though, vampires usually are...

Re: Sharing END

This is an interesting concept. My initial sympathies are with Dust Raven. If a power can use END from multiple sources then it is better than a power that cannot - thus it should be advantaged.

 

It is not the END that is better it is the power.

 

Hugh had a problem in that the points spent on improving the powers could be spent upgrading the amount of END or REC available. That is true but each twin will benefit from every point of END and REC bought for each of them - END and REC, through this power become cheaper and so the powers should be more expensive to compensate.

 

The twins spend more on their powers because they are more flexible END wise. If one of them has a suppressed REC then he still gets to use and recover END as his twin is un-suppressed. If one is subject to an END drain then he can use his twin's END without suffering from 1D6 Stun per 2 END below zero.

 

Doc

Respectfully, Doc, I don't think your logic makes sense in this case. We don't recost the entire character when we buy new powers, even if the new power makes his old ones more effect. If you increase your OCV, your energy blast becomes more effective, but it doesn't cost more. By the same token, if you buy reduced penetration on an attack, you don't force everyone you may fight in the future to recost their defenses because they are more effective. The powers in this case remain exactly the same, and in my second example, only draw from one twins endurance (though the side effect makes the other twins endurance go down as well). So, in effect, the twins are paying for the same endurance, AND you want them to pay for an advantage on top of that???

Re: To serve and protect

I think that just the Social Lim covers all of that. Otherwise it's a psych limit.

I don't think so, because if the cops are watching you, they might spot you doing other things. If you break the law, for instance, or changing to/from your hero ID. Plus, and I'll say it again, if you take them both for your character, I consider my duty as game master to make sure I get the full points for those disads...

Re: Sharing END

What happens when the two twins stop touching? Does their END average? Or do they have to say whether or not they are using their own or their twins END (and can take some from each if need be)?

 

Off the top of my head, I'd just say put the +1/4 Advantage on each of their Powers that would use either END (like you would for Powers that can use either the character's END or an END Reserve). Then they can use their own END, or use each other's when touching (any physical contact would be allowed, and technically just standing in the same hex would count). This shouldn't be bought as a Naked Advantage and should be further limited, as you have to be in contact with the alternate END by default.

That expensive End!!! How about End, bought with the only when touching twin, in the amount of the twins End, with the side effect on it that when this end is used, the other twins end goes down by the same amount??? That should have the desired effect, and avoids the whole +1/4 advantage that I had forgotten completely about...